Why don't atheists reject values derived from religion?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Mind Over Matter, Feb 28, 2011.

  1. quinnsong Valued Senior Member


    I am very excited and hopeful about China, I have been watching their progress for a few years. With more than a billion people China would certainly be a beacon of hope if they end up with a successful and fair economiic system.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2011
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  3. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

    Sorry Saquist, some f my responses are tangled up in blue!
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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member


    Above, you accused Dywyddyr of lying.

    It is not clear what you believe he lied about.

    He has requested that you provide evidence of his lies or, failing that, an apology for your accusation.

    Please post the evidence of Dywyddyr's lie(s) in your next post to this thread, or withdraw the accusation. Be careful to specify what the lie(s) were, and show how they are demonstrated by Dywyddyr's posts (providing links as appropriate).

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  7. Mircea Registered Member

    Neither do religious people.

    That's true.

    My morality is superior to that of any god.

    I don't rape, because it is wrong morally and ethically.

    Contrast that with Yahweh and Jesus who say raping a woman is perfectly okay (and might even be fun and profitable) so long as you marry her after you brutally sodomize her against her will.

    And some people are daft enough to believe that Jesus is some kind of savior.

    That isn't what the gospels say.

    Jesus says that if you want eternal life (whatever that means because he never defines exactly what "eternal life" is) then you must follow the Commandments, and you must sell everything and give the money to the poor.

    Jesus does say imply that he will forgive people for violating the Commandments, but nowhere does he say that forgiveness equates to salvation.

    In other words, if someone violates the Commandments, they can cherish the thought that Jesus forgave them while they bun in Hell for all eternity.

    Anyway, the problem is that people, especially christians, are weak and they always take the least difficult or painful route and so the christian religion has been deceitfully dumbed-down to the "accept Jesus and you're saved" routine to make it more palatable for the masses.

    According to Martin Luther, if Hitler was pre-destined for salvation then Hitler is in Heaven wearing a tupa and singing, "Holy! Holy! Holy is the Lamb!" for eternity, which really sounds like good fun.

    Likewise, if Mother Teresa was pre-destined for Hell, the according to Martin Luther, Mother Teresa is rotting in Hell right now because no amount of good works will save you from predestination.

    Yes, indeed.

    Often over-looked is the fact that China has 1.6 Billion people. How do you effectively administer to that many people?

    Is democracy successful? Some people would point to European countries with very small populations and say it is, but when you start looking at countries with very large populations, like the US at 308 Million people, it isn't.

    What have we seen in the US? Voters voting in their own selfish interests instead of the interests of the community and the result has been mayors and city council/aldermen (or whatever) bankrupting the cities, you see bankrupt states, a collapsing infrastructure and numerous other problems that won't be fixed any time soon.

    US foreign policy is a total failure, and the Chinese are doing exactly the opposite of what the US has done, and it has been a stonking success.

    The US steals the resources and profits taking 92% leaving the host nation with a paltry 8%, then oppresses the people economically, socially, culturally and politically through puppet-dictators and refuses to invest in the infrastructure, insisting the country borrow money from the IMF which it cannot repay because the US is taking all the profits out of the country.

    China shares 60%-40%, doesn't repress the people, doesn't care what government or form of government is in power, and immediately starts investing money into the infrastructure to improve people's lives by building roads, and laying water, sewage and electric power lines.

    There's no doubt the Chinese studied US foreign policy, discovered its many grotesque flaws and came up with a better way.

    I'm sure they're doing the same thing, studying the political structure in the US (and other countries) and they will come up with a better form of government that is democratic but doesn't suffer the flaws of the US system or the European system.
  8. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

    Why don't Christians reject values derived from non-Christian thinkers and cultures, like ethics and virtue? Those can't come from Christianity, since the pagan Greeks were writing about them centuries before Jesus was born.

    The answer, possibly, could be that the question itself is silly.
  9. Saquist Banned Banned

    No problem, I think...I got.

    Do we judge the ideology or the people.
    We say religion, that's the ideology. Is the ideology really to blame? Like I said the message really is quite benign. I prefer to judge the people, people will always be part of the problem.

    But yes, I look forward to seeing what China will become.
    Really I don't see revolution in China's future, the ruling party is too powerful.
    It's possible they will make slow progressive changes as they have been to adapt to the modern world and the modern people that they themselves have encouraged. I could be wrong...if Revolution occurred in China it's likely to be...costly.
  10. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    **** Moderator note: Saquist requested that he be permanently banned from sciforums. I asked him to consider this decision carefully, but he was adamant that this is what he wanted. So, I have permanently banned him from sciforums, as requested.
  11. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Mod Hat — Thread splinter

    Mod Hat — Thread splinter

    Several posts regarding voluntary bans have been transferred to a new discussion in SFOG.

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