Why must people prove that god is or isent real

Humans ask questions like "where do we come from" and by nature we're very curious beings. Perhaps the flaw of a greater gift of possessing the will to question and learn, is the situation in which one attempts to prove if God does or doesn't exist and then leads to negative acts. Without our want to define and understand things I don't believe we'd be much beyond grunting and living in caves.(Although I know a few people who seem to prefer this lifestyle =D) Knowledge begins with a question.


The answer to the next one I think would depend on the defined specifics of the situation. Some people wish to convince so they feel they are not alone in their beliefs, others do it for control, others do it to "enlighten" who they are speaking to because they believe they are corret on the subject. In my opinion, its as natural to us as breathing. If you thought you knew something and you were right, would you not wish to convince someone else of your belief? It seems the great minds of our race certainly did. Having evidence of one's belief can be a great help, in science its absolutely necessary, but in areas we cannot prove something totally, evidence will have a different interpretation to each individual.

 

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Fraggle
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there are many things that are unobservable that make their way into science - eg - abiogenesis, the mind etc

this is akin to relegating the notion of god to impotency - the very notion of god has implications to the function of existence, so, at least in the eyes of theists, the notion of god demands quite a degree of seriousness

the actual position of god aside, if you find that you have acerbic run ins with theists, its because the way you are entailing them to behave is disempowering

but, as indicating by your comments, you want to establish that god should not bear any influence in society, which amounts to the same conclusion as proving there is no god

Is this respectful?

Religion is unscientific and in many cases downright anti-scientific. As a scientific website it is our duty to hold the Forces of Darkness at bay. Therefore our members are free to make disparaging remarks about religion so long as they don't violate the rules about personal insults, racism, flaming, trolling, etc.
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they also require extraordinary qualification

not particularly scientific

on the contrary, its the subforum that is the easiest for an atheist to get away with trolling, ad homs etc

in short, regardless of what you believe in (abiogenesis included), if you are wantonly disrespectful towards what others hold as serious, what sort of response would you expect?

 

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I think it is because we are on a science forum...they must allways prove everything *sigh*

Most people in the world, probably don't go around wanting to prove that God exists, but casually believe in Him.

 

A constantly swaying mind is not the same thing as having an open mind; which is what being agnostic is.

Why would it be not respectful? I find when a theist starts 'witnessing' to me about their religion, disrespectful. It's the same thing as when the magazine salespeople solicit door to door.

There's a part in Jim Gaffigan's 'Beyond the Pale' stand up special where he's talking about religious nuts. He talked about when people come up to him and say, "I'd like to talk to you about Jesus". Then he said he would reply with, "I'd like you not to".

Most people that aren't Christian don't want Christians coming up to them and talking about Jesus, or anything Christianity based.

 

Well then they shouldnt come here preaching about God and starting threads about God at a science forum. :shrug:

Most atheists dont go around wanting to prove that God doesnt exist, but casually not believe in Him.

 

Why not? We want to see what scientists have to say, and many times their arguments can be flawed, just as our arguments can be flawed, also many theists come here for other purpouses than preaching but when they find that there is such a hostile and negative view on them they want to show that they aren't so bad, and that their beliefs aren't fake. I can only speak for myself though, we are all people and people are different.

Well, it wasn't directed at you, but sure.

 

Its alright with me, but dont go *sighing* about the scientists wanting to proof everything, you knew this before entering a science forum.

 

I used to post in a religious forum, and it frankly bored me; because they kept quoting each own´s scriptures over and over again, like parrots. I don´t like that, I like to argue with people who know how to think, not what to think.

On the other hand, sometimes scientists are the total opposite of those people quoting the scriptures, always asking for proof and references. What about free thinking? This forum should be about that, the unspeakable...

 

Well, I only wrote so because it looks tiring from the outside trying to prove everything. Don't take it so personally, a little self-reflection might be in place sometimes...

 

Agreed, but still its a science forum. Science wants to see things proven.. :shrug:

 

Ok, i give.. but in my defense, i said Science wants to see things proven. I never said it was possible to prove a scientific theory.

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Yes, that is the beauty of science. Don't get me wrong, I like science very much, as long as it has a open mind. I can understand that scientists question if God exists, since they cannot find any evidence objectivly, however, some of us have experianced things that have changed our mind, or made us more comfortable in our belief, so as such there are progress in faith, not unlike science, but in a different way, we could also get lost in our wonderings (as it is warned in the Bible) and we should allways be careful not to "dig too deep" cause meaning stretches very deep in these subjects and you will allways find more meaning, but the real meaning comes with actions and doing what we feel is truly right, so being too deep without actions alongside can lead us out of "reality" so to speak, do you understand what I mean? I sense that you are somewhat open-minded after all, that is why I tell you this.

Science comes up with objective knowledge, much of the subjective is hard for science to prove (even if it might be proven subjectivly - that we can feel for example, nothing objectivly tells us a body can feel), so some knowledge can only be achieved subjectivly through experiance and so on.

 

"I sense that you are somewhat open-minded after all, that is why I tell you this."
Thank you, i take that as a huge compliment

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Science should at all times be open-minded and i believe that it is most of the time. But when no evidence is found of these 'subjective things' they will have to be put aside for the moment.
I can understand, and i respect, that religious people feel they have experienced things beyond the realm of science. But from a scientists point of view this just doesn't hold a whole lot of meaning.
I am not a practitioning scientist myself but i think i speak for most scientists and people like myself when i say that we have experienced/seen things that made us more comfortable in science rather than in religion.

"..but the real meaning comes with actions and doing what we feel is truly right, so being too deep without actions alongside can lead us out of "reality" so to speak, do you understand what I mean?"
I understand what you mean and this is precisely why i respect most religious people; for what they do and stand for, not for what they believe in.
To me, it its all about being a good person to others and your environment. And i honestly believe one doesn't need any God to be like that. But i also realize that some people may need a God to guide them, or like the idea of a guiding God. Having said that, i believe most religious people believe because they were raised to do so. They never second-guess, and when others (atheists) question their beliefs they are shocked and find themselves defending their faith instinctively.
I every day life i have never had any problems with religious people and i think i can safely say they have had any trouble from me. However, when they are actively taking part in discussions about religion and science they have to be prepared to face some resistance. And, of course, that goes for both 'sides'.

I never feel any hostility towards any person because their beliefs seem illogical/wrong to me. I judge people by their actions and character only, not by their beliefs.
Sometimes my postings can seem a bit 'angry' but thats just how it seems, i rarely am 'angry'. Its more often than not to get a sharp conversation going

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I'm starting to like you Enmos

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The only thing that I can disagree on in your post is that we don't question our faith, a part of our faith is just that, questioning.

We are indeed prepared to face some resistance, some of our ideology is based on the fact that we are going to be strongly doubted and people will haunt us so we are indeed in the midst of our teaching right now. My concern is that people will not realise what is happening...

I'm sorry, that is too much for you to bear..

You see it ends here, we can't talk no longer, I do trust you but some of what I can say, you will not be able to accept so why take that step? If you are comfortable in your situation right now, and you don't need any preaching, what more is it for me to do?

I hope that you will live a good life, and I hope that we will all get to heaven, you know, we can't be more than we are right now, but in time something might happen that enable us to see more of the things that are going on on a different level, these things that we can't just ignore (if we see it), so, while that is not happening right now, I can just wish you a good life and hope you the best of fortune.

 

"The only thing that I can disagree on in your post is that we don't question our faith, a part of our faith is just that, questioning."
I accept that you do, but in my experience not all religious people question their faith. Some are just blindly following doctrine.

"..and people will haunt us so we are indeed in the midst of our teaching right now."
People haunt you ? How do you mean ? Arent those just extremists ? Most atheists that i know (in real life) get along perfectly with religious people. Actually, to be honest, all of them.

"I'm sorry, that is too much for you to bear.."
I dont think its too much for me to bear unless you are going to try to convert me

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"You see it ends here, we can't talk no longer.."
I disagree, we can talk. We can discuss eachothers opinions and views. You strike me as a sympathetic person, i feel confident that we can discuss religion and/or atheism without getting into any 'fights'.

"I hope that you will live a good life, and I hope that we will all get to heaven.."
I wish the very same for you my friend, and i truly hope a heaven exists. I wish i could believe in a God and a heaven, but i just cant.

"I can just wish you a good life and hope you the best of fortune."
I wish you a good and fortunate life too, but i think we will talk on here again sometime. Untill then

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Who said anyone wants to prove god isn't real? Its not even possible to prove a negative.

All we ask(or I anyway) is that you produce any evidence for the first time that your invention of a god that made us, controls us and punishes us after death has a physical reality.


(Enmos what symbol is that in your avatar?)

 

Hi GhostofMaxwell,
I made it up, it is supposed to be a stylized dragonfly

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I use it as an icon for my website (enmos.eu).

 

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