Without Religion

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Xelasnave.1947, Dec 13, 2016.

  1. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    He's a pacifist, and Love himself.
     
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  3. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    This use of "religion" to include something other than a God or Gods is disingenuous. Now "we" are using it to describe any culture or civilization as if anyone would or is arguing against the concept of culture or civilization.

    The only reason to do such a thing is to derail this conversation when you can't continue with the conversation in a more honest way.
     
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  5. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Religion is part of every culture, and every civilisation. Also it is not a separate thing. It is integral. One does not have to worship God, or gods to be religious. If one worships a celebrity, there is no difference in worshiping God, or gods.

    This is meant to be an intelligent community, not a place where we omit information because some people are too sensitive. I don't see you being sensitive about God, religion, or theists.

    jan.
     
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  7. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I submit that anyone who believes in religion believes in wrong things so is my stand inappropriate?
    Of course I accept the word means more than the limitation I set but it certainly means what I have set.
    Alex
     
  8. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    OK if it makes you feel better I accept your meaning.
    It seems silly to elevate one human above others and give them a God like status but it happens Jan.
    Jan I was seeking your view upon the question I asked which did not imply the world must be like me.
    Alex
     
  9. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, there is a difference. There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of the celebrity and that isn't the case for the supernatural. This is also not the common usage of the word "religion" and therefore has nothing to do with anything we have been discussing.
     
  10. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I don't know to whom you refer.

    Could you reword your post please I would like to understand what you wish to say.

    Alex
     
  11. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Understanding kx000 is an acquired skill and one that I haven't acquired yet for the most part. I think he is referring to God and is saying that the violence associated with religion has nothing to do with God's nature.

    Then again, I have asked him before if he was using a random word generator for his posts so what do I know?

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  12. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Not even atheists believe that all religions are wrong. A religion can be almost anything.
     
  13. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    It is my impression that the word religion once applied exclusively to matters relating to a God or Gods but as time passed it was used to also describe organisations, groups etc that presented a similar dogmatic approach to whatever it was that they believed in.
    That is my mere opinion based only upon how I perceive how the word grew over the years.
    Like so many discussions it is worthwhile to proceed only after al have agreed upon a definition.
    Jan seeks to extend the definition I believe to avoid considering the questions that I present, which clearly I present on the basis, rightly or wrongly, that religion relates to matters concerning God or Gods.
    I have made clear what I mean so to embark upon extending the meaning of religion I see as an attempt to avoid addressing the questions I ask.
    Jan has a style in my view that is designed to avoid directly addressing the matters that a poster presents.
    I enjoy seeing Jan in action but that does not mean that I need fall victim to the tactics Jan often employs.
    I see no problem with stating that when I use the word religion I mean strictly only as it applies to matters involving God or Gods and not to other areas where it can be used to reference a dogmatic or ordered approach.
    Alex
     
  14. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I thought similar but as I was uncertain I felt it best to ask.
    He has taken time to contribute and for that I thank him and it would not be right for me to just dismiss his input because I did not understand.
    Everyone should be heard and understood.
    Alex
     
  15. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Religions have historically been more varied than western traditions give them credit. Buddhism, for instance, is ancient, and doesn't have to do with God as it's central teaching, Taoism is even older. South American shamans worship plants and fungi. Religion is a word that is often used as a shortcut for theism, and that's fine, as long as we don't maintain the cultural bias that it only means gods. And yes, discussing this with you is infinitely more rewarding than bouncing thoughts against the wall of rock that is Jan.
     
  16. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Yes and no doubt my limited view comes from growing up in a country town where you were either Catholic or Non Catholic.

    No one knew about anything outside that approach to religion.

    But the good thing was religion was confined to Sundays and figured in no way during the rest of the week.

    Catholics were the enemy.

    The Catholic school kids wore blue shirts for goodness sake they were just so different to us.

    After training at the police boys club I would fight in turn two catholic kids who would abuse me as their school bus passed me each day on my way to school.
    I would fight one beat him then the other, beat him and would have three or foir fights with each of them each week after training. I never lost a fight to either of them. Not once they could not submit me so I would just fight until I could submit them.

    Each week I would have to work out a new submission or tactic because they would figure out how I beat them, so I became rather good because of them, but the interesting thing was in the months or years this happened week in week out we never spoke to each other..well other than them yelling at me on the way to school.

    Anyways why would I talk to them they wore blue shirts.

    Alex
     
  17. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Point taken regarding religions that aren't entirely based on Gods but there is still generally a lot of mysticism involved. When plants and rocks are being worshiped there is usually some "other worldly" aspect being revered. It's still supernatural in part.
     
  18. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    If Catholicism was the true religion they would have submitted you. How were you at fighting the Jewish boys or the Protestants?

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  19. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I was prespeterian??
    Which was protestant???
    I did not even know about Jewish people until I heard about Hitler and fortunately never exposed to any prejudice.
    I didn't understand my life was fortunately no any way involved with religious prejudice.

    When I was running the solicitors office I acted for a Jewish man and made him a small fortune, but others would ask why I acted for him but I just did not understand what they were trying to tell me.
    I liked him and he respected me cause I delivered.
    At the same time I also acted for the Lebanese who thought the world of me.
    They said if I ran for council they would see me win.
    I did not go with that because I senced I would become "owned".
    It amazes me in reflection how I went thru life not knowing so many things about religion and prejudice but I am happy to have been and to a large degree remain inoccent.
    I was a loner at school and never took notice of other kids, I had a German friend, then a Maltese friend, a Chinese friend and an Italian friend probably because they were treated as outsiders.
    I would have lots of fights because kids would pick on me or my friends but fortunately I never backed down and was never beaten.
    Alex
     
  20. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    It isn't an extention, it is what religion is, and means. You can bury your head in the sand and pretend religion is what you want it to be, but just know that is a narrow definition.
    Before Muhammad revelation from Allah (regardless of your own belief) the peoples of that part of the world made virtually anything into a religion.

    Those people who believe in God, in the, what you prefer to term as ''religion'', also use it to reference a dogmatic or ordered approach. It's the same thing IOW, only the object of their approach may be God, or god(s) of their particular religion.

    jan.
     
  21. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Existence isn't the issue with religion.

    Jan.
     
  22. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    I believe in a little thing called LOVE.
     
  23. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Sure it is. Existence of something mystical.
     

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