Yahweh and Allah. Are they moral and ethical Gods?

Discussion in 'The Cesspool' started by Greatest I am, Apr 25, 2016.

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  1. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Yahweh and Allah. Are they moral and ethical Gods?

    Some say we cannot say or know, because it is all myth.

    http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

    I think they are wrong as men can judge actions.

    I think we can at least know if Yahweh and Allah, and the religions they spawned, are good or evil.
    Since God is a Man interpreting God’s words, believers all following a Man.

    We invent our Gods and put them above us. But ultimately get all we know of God, and his morality from others around us. Priests and imams interpret and are the spokes in the religious communication network. Those priests and imams are teaching violence against their neighbor instead of love. I do not see that as ethical behavior for any moral religion.

    From what you know of Yahweh and Allah, and the religions they have spawned, would you say that those two War loving Gods, as we also love it in their image, good Gods, or would you say they are something else?

    Regards
    DL
     
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  3. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Another tendentious question, designed as an outlet for yet more outpourings of your gnostic stuff. I wish you would go away and preach elsewhere.
     
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  5. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    There is your answer so now you know.

    Alex
     
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  7. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    Yahweh's behaviour isn't special or different. Judaism was not originally monotheistic, so its god behaved in a manner consistent with other "kingly" gods in a polytheistic system.
    To an extent, that's all mythology, and myth is not usually literal. Myths communicate something--a lesson or social teaching, an origin tale for a particular ritual or rule, a cautionary tale, or any number of things. Some of them hint at the nature or personality of a god or goddess, but it's not usually direct. The stories depicting a god's action tell the audience something about that god, but through metaphor or allegory or exaggeration. The myths are "historical fiction" with the gods as characters--the gods are real, but the stories about them aren't necessarily. But that does not diminish their truth value, as truth often transcends what is literally told in a story.

    And one must keep in mind the ethical system from the time in which these figures were originally described or recorded. Does Yahweh's behaviour correspond to modern-day models of human morality? Probably not. But that can be said of a lot of gods and heroes from religion, legend, and mythology. We're talking about figures whose stories were crafted in the Bronze Age and Iron Age, anywhere between 3000 BCE and 1100 CE in some areas. Social norms and ethics were completely different from those of modern times, because the situation in society and economy were completely different. You cannot judge historical times with your own, modern standards because they simply do not apply.
    The same principle applies to the gods and heroes of those societies' legends, myths, and religions. Different times, different standards, different concepts of what is right or wrong, just or unjust, proper or improper. And not all figures are supposed to fit those standards in the first place--many gods and heroes are liminal figures, who straddle these lines or even transgress them.

    Of course, reject or distance yourself from any deity at your discretion. If a deity's personality, as hinted at by their mythos or by your personal experience, is not what you find comfortable to involve yourself with, then by all means don't go with it. If you don't believe that a particular deity exists, then it's not even a question at that point. The only thing I suggest is that one ought to be fully informed of the context and history of anything, before committing to a decision about that thing.

    But, this is all probably moot. As exchemist said, this is all just another smokescreen for your Gnostic proselytising and preaching. You are ultimately no better than the Christians and Jews and Muslims you denigrate.
     
  8. Thomas Cranmer Registered Member

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    We obviously have an origin, time cannot go back for ever and that origin must be very powerful and intelligent. This world is too complicated to have just happened by chance.
     
  9. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Is that "Origin" necessarily good... or coud that Origin be a monster.???
     
  10. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    O the horror... if i only had the strength of character to skip the threds that upset me so

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  11. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Oh a lot of posters are going to love me for this

    TIME DOES NOT EXIST

    The Universe is controlled by Physics and

    while complicated is subject to

    observations and understanding

    Science is working on it

    Stay tuned for more exciting developments

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  12. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Do random events occur in this universe.???
     
  13. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    YES

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  14. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Is this universe deterministic.???
     
  15. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Everything non organic operates
    according to the laws of physics with
    built-in uncertainty factors

    Organic organisms have a added
    uncertainty built-in due to the ability to
    gain knowledge and use new knowledge
    to change any previous objective

    The Universe is not alive so there is no
    end game objective to aim for

    Physics operates 'blindly' as physics does

    Can things happen only one way?

    Given the particular circumstances at any particular NOW?

    Yes

    Are there different PATHWAYS to arrive at any particular NOW

    Yes

    However since those alternative pathways did not eventuate it remains for the NOW to occur in the manner the pathway which did eventuate dictates

    Must EVERYTHING which can happen eventually happen?

    I don't so why it should?

    I don't see anything in physics which would indicate a MUST

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  16. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    I wish you would recognize the superior morality of Gnostic Christianity as compared with Christianity and Islam.

    For just two points, we are not homophobic or misogynous.

    Do you favor those two immoral tenants?

    Regards
    DL
     
  17. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    I was already there.

    Regards
    DL
     
  18. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    I agree. In fact, literal reading likely hides the message the author wanted to give.

    I agree again. Yet Christians are using a literal model of that immoral God to live by. Perhaps that is why they hold so firmly to homophobic and misogynous thinking to this day.

    I do not agree as morality has not really changed for us for more than 25,000 years. If you think we have, name the moral tenant you have in mind.

    As Jesus said, do not call me good. There is none good other than the Father.

    That aside.

    The Gnostic Christian morality is way superior to the Christian and Muslim penchant to be homophobic and misogynous. That is not so for Gnostic Christianity so tell us which you think is the more moral ideology?

    Regards
    DL
     
  19. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Powerful and intelligent, yet could not start Heaven right as Satan screwed that up, then God could not start Eden off right as man screwed that up, then the world had to be rebooted in Noah's day thanks to god screwing up again, and he is supposed to come back and clean up the new mess we are all supposedly living in.

    I think you misuse the words powerful and intelligent here as those to not apply to Yahweh, a stupid loser who cannot get anything right and is too powerless to show up to apologies for Christians and their present immoral tenants.

    Regards
    DL
     
  20. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    When you cannot refute or argue against something, then bitch as our friend does.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  21. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, and controlled ones as well.

    All star stuff has a preordained destiny except for that which we control via intelligence or instincts.

    I think I can say that life is the only source of chaos that the universe will feel. All other star stuff has a path that can be known but as you know observation changes what the subatomic particles do.

    Regards
    DL
     
  22. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    The all mighty is logically passive in more than one way.
     
  23. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Ok... its a deterministic universe except for when it ant.!!!
    That explains how Gods gift of free will relieves him of responsibility an how we deserve the punishment we receive from our bad choices.!!!
    Thank you.!!!

    A-Man.!!!

    PS::: My church is in a period of open enrollment an everybody is welcome.!!!
     
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