A Universe from Nothing: Not that hard to understand.

Write4U said:
That is assuming a water wave, with trillions of water molecules. But the double slit experiment deals with a single photon which accorcing to convention travels as a probability wave and only becomes a particle when it strikes the photgraphic plate behind the slits. So there is no breaking apart involved as might be expected from a stream of light. We're talking about a single photon, not trillions of them.
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Another thought just struck me.
A photon always travels in a straight line, but as was demonstrated, light ( a stream of photons) can bend in the gravitational field of a massive star.

This suggests that the paths of photons are variable when pesented with a larger more powerful force. Yet, by convention, it appears that when the probability wave of a single particle passing through a narrow slit it's own wave function seems to display a wave interference so strong as to alter the straight path of the photon and directs it to a wide range of probabilistic targets on the plate.

This, IMO, suggests an inherent paradox, which would be resolved by Bohm's larger and much more powerful Pilot Wave and powerful local wave interference patterns in the Pilot Wave itself , caused by the double slits, which steer the photon to a probabilistic target.

I am way out on a limb here, but I have always wondered about the apparent conflict contained in the particle/wave duality.

This may not even be pertinent to the OP subject but it seems to me that if we can get a clear resolution of this phenomon, it might have a possible bearing on the discussion. There is no intent on hijacking the thread.
 
Write4U said:
Another thought just struck me.
A photon always travels in a straight line, but as was demonstrated, light ( a stream of photons) can bend in the gravitational field of a massive star.

This suggests that the paths of photons are variable when pesented with a larger more powerful force. Yet, by convention, it appears that when the probability wave of a single particle passing through a narrow slit it's own wave function seems to display a wave interference so strong as to alter the straight path of the photon and directs it to a wide range of probabilistic targets on the plate.

This, IMO, suggests an inherent paradox, which would be resolved by Bohm's larger and much more powerful Pilot Wave and powerful local wave interference patterns in the Pilot Wave itself , caused by the double slits, which steer the photon to a probabilistic target.

I am way out on a limb here, but I have always wondered about the apparent conflict contained in the particle/wave duality.

This may not even be pertinent to the OP subject but it seems to me that if we can get a clear resolution of this phenomon, it might have a possible bearing on the discussion. There is no intent on hijacking the thread.
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Write4U .

For myself there is no conflict between wave/particle , particle/wave Nature .

Both are both the Nature of both . You can't have either without the other .

The wave is the density of the particles in that wave . The particle is the Nature of the element or molecule .

The double slit is the evidence of a medium influenced by the passing of either the electron or proton going through it .

As a submarine influences the medium of water it goes through .
 
What bothers me most is that if a particle is spread out as a wave, would it's energy not also be spread out?

If only a small part of this probability wave strikes the plate what happens to the rest of the wave? Does the wave magically recombine to form the entire particle as it was originally fired from the gun (for want of a better word) and displays the same total energy when projected on the plate?

Has anyone measured (if this can be done) if a photon has lost some of it's energy after it has passed through one of the slits and registers as a particle on the plate? If so, then that would be proof of the duality, where some energy contained in the entire wave function is actually lost in the process.
 
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river said:
As a submarine influences the medium of water it goes through .
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True, but in the process it must expend energy and the faster it goes through the medium the more energy is required. Thus one can say that the creation of a wave function requires expenditure of energy.
 
paddoboy said:
Yes I know, but that does not happen with photons or electrons.
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That is true if a photon or an electron enters the slit as a particle and not as a probability wave. But that's not how I understand the probability wave function from what I have read. The particle travels as a wave and becomes a particle again when the wave function collapses.

Every illustration I have seen shows the wave function passing through both slits and then creating an interference pattern. To me this suggests that by convention the particle displays a wave function before it passes through both slits.

As you present it the particle travels as a particle, but disintegrates into a wave function as it passes through one slit. But if so, how does it form an interference pattern?

However, if you are correct, would that not suggest that Bohm's Pilot wave is passing through both slits and is responsible for the interference pattern which then steers the particle to a probabilistic target?

But here I must admit my limited knowledge of particle physics, so I might well be looking at this from a wrong perspective.
 
river said:
But both effect the medium on which they ride on .
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Sorry, photons follow geodesics in spacetime...no medium needed, and of course they do not build up or congregate in front of any slit..
Again your assertions are irrelevant to say the least.
 
Write4U said:
That is true if a photon or an electron enters the slit as a particle and not as a probability wave. But that's not how I understand the probability wave function from what I have read. The particle travels as a wave and becomes a particle again when the wave function collapses.

Every illustration I have seen shows the wave function passing through both slits and then creating an interference pattern. To me this suggests that by convention the particle displays a wave function before it passes through both slits.
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This explains it admirably Write4U....
 
Here's the thing ;

The atom of which the experiment is based , is not identified . What atom , and why this particular atom ?

And this seems more of a thought experiment than a real experiment .
 
river said:
Here's the thing ;

The atom of which the experiment is based , is not identified . What atom , and why this particular atom ?

And this seems more of a thought experiment than a real experiment .
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No, here's the thing, the double slit experiment at various levels is factual, and it certainly does not matter which atom is used as far as I know. Irrespective using atoms constitute massive quantum particles, and it appears they behave the same as electrons and/or photons.
Perhaps you need drop your rather silly anti mainstream science prejudice and watch the video for a full explanation of quantum weirdness?
Or alternatively if you understand quantum weirdness, we'll obviously see you in Stockholm next year then?
Quantum weirdness in fact is why the scenario of a universe from "nothing"[quantum foam perhaps?] is a distinct possibility.
 
I still like this theory better. It does away with the magical aspect of duality.

But I readily admit that I have nothing to add by way of explanation. It just feels conceptually more comfortable to me.
 
Physics beat god to the winning post by a country mile to be the first to appear in the inaugural Come From Nothing Race

It was a fair race although god was handicapped by being non existent

:)
 
Michael 345 said:
Physics beat god to the winning post by a country mile to be the first to appear in the inaugural Come From Nothing Race

It was a fair race although god was handicapped by being non existent :)
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That merits a cup of freshly brewed coffee.:)
 
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