AI is ridiculous concept that many misinterpret.

B

Bob-a-builder

Registered Senior Member
Anyone who knows any computer language and code knows A.I. as perceived by the world is utter nonsense.

It is a credit to the ingenuity of mankind that we have created games and such where the bad guys appear to think, where computers can beat chess masters.

In truth. There is absolutely zero thought occurring.

Computers can do two(2) things only.

A) It can compare two values
B) It can turn a light on or off (and by light I mean switch - You have to watch your wording carefully on this forum)

Every line of computer code in every computer language is simply either
A) an if/then statement.
B) a direction to a switch/light.

IF X>Y go to Line 200 Else line 200 (type stuff).

A computer that actually thought would not even be practical.

If a computer was organic and grown. Then that is a life form and hardly a computer. I have seen such arguments. No algorithms can emulate true thought.

If you look at a flowchart for any computer software it has two(2) types of boxes.

A) Diamond shapes - These are decisions based on comparing values.
B) Boxes - These turn switches on and off.

There is no such box where a computer considers the task. There is no real bad guy in your PlayStation.

If a computer wins at chess, it is not because it is more imaginative. It wins because it has looked at every possible future move and calculates accordingly. Zero thought.

Hope this help some of the folk in this forum sleep better.

Want to put your mind at ease. Spend 1 hour learning to code.

No computer will ever be capable of true thought. Not unless its organic... and then its a life form
 
Bob-a-builder said:
If a computer wins at chess, it is not because it is more imaginative. It wins because it has looked at every possible future move and calculates accordingly. Zero thought.
Click to expand...
What is imagination if not considering all of the possibilites?
 
Given this:
Bob-a-builder said:
Every line of computer code in every computer language is simply either
A) an if/then statement.
B) a direction to a switch/light.
Click to expand...
it's fairly obvious that you haven't even
Spent 1 hour learning to code.
Click to expand...
No computer will ever be capable of true thought.
Click to expand...
And again, given that we can't even define "true thought" your claim would appear to be a belief, not a fact.
 
sideshowbob said:
What is imagination if not considering all of the possibilites?
Click to expand...
perhaps, imagination has to do with myelin
or proximity of Unmyelinated and/or Myelinated Axons
crossed wires and leaking voltage so to speak
..................
have you ever had a phone conversation and heard a different muted background conversation from other people?
 
If all of the above people consider comparing two values as thought. Then yes. Computers think.


Dywyddyr,
That is a pretty bold claim. Why would you make a claim that any programmer on earth could debunk.
Choose any line of code, and it either "compares values" or "activates a switch".
I'm sure you can find just ONE EXAMPLE (1).
If you can find just one line of code that does not activate a switch or compare. I will state that I am wrong.
Just one (1).

I'm sure you will now tell me youre a master programmer like the Engineer stuff you've been pushing.

Anyone can have a go. One line from any computer program in any computer language.

If You even type (PHP-?) type stuff it is just a switch. A go-to statement is a switch.

Maybe some here do not grasp that the switches sometimes mean going through other decisions and switches... but in the end. Everything a computer does is from a switch or a comparison. Usually multiples of.

I grasp the thinking. You've seen too many movies about skynet.

Fear not.. Its just scaremonger to the unintelligent.

Any programmer knows this.
 
Dywyddyr said:
Nothing wrong with that: so is mine.
It even predates micros and PCs.
Click to expand...
I mean Bob's latest experience is 30 years old.

I started there too. But programming has come a bit of a ways since then.

But line-based programming is what he's using it as a basis to claim that AI is impossible.

What's next? 'No AI will ever be built from vacuum tubes!'
 
DaveC426913 said:
This is adorable.

Bob's experience with programming is older than the internet.

(And yet still better than his experience with physics, chemistry and archaeology.)
Click to expand...

I also used "PHP?" in an earlier posting. That line of code was likely not available pre-internet. Let me clarify. IT WAS NOT!

This post was meant to instruct NON-PROGRAMMERS that no computer can do anything except compare values.

BASIC seemed basic enough. I learned on a TRS-80. (16k memory)

My kids will never need work because of the money I make online. Passively.

How would YOU show a comparison line of programming to a non programmer?

Edit.. and I challenge anyone to read the "How would boiling water affect a lid" thread in physics and not conclude both of you have little grasp of it.
 
Bob-a-builder said:
Computers can do two(2) things only.

A) It can compare two values
B) It can turn a light on or off (and by light I mean switch - You have to watch your wording carefully on this forum)
Click to expand...
Every single one of your neurons can do only one of two things:
1) Fire
2) Not fire

Do you consider yourself intelligent?
 
DaveC426913 said:
This is adorable.

Bob's experience with programming is older than the internet.

(And yet still better than his experience with physics, chemistry and archaeology.)
Click to expand...

I've been learning some DSP for musical and audio processing applications, and, funnily enough, BASIC is a fairly popular language for learning the... erm, basics. Ordinarily, I'm not a huge fan of DSP applications (unless you're talking some seriously pricey software, it kinda sounds crap)--I prefer analog solutions for audio pathways, while sometimes using digital means for the controlling or "brains" aspects, i.e., I'll use pics or avrs (which I'll program in C, of course) when advantageous or convenient. But BASIC kinda-sorta works pretty well for getting a grasp of the fundamentals:
Most DSP applications are programmed in C or Fortran. Just the thing you need when programs contain thousands of lines of code, have multiple programmers working together, or will need to be modified and maintained in the future.

However, learning DSP has different requirements than using DSP. You need to concentrate on understanding the algorithms and techniques, without being distracted by the quirks of a particular language. You don't care about power and flexibility; you need simplicity! ...

For instance:
  • a simplified version of BASIC is used ...
Click to expand...
http://www.dspguide.com/programs.htm <<<

Seems weird, but... yeah.
 
parmalee said:
BASIC is a fairly popular language for learning the... erm, basics.
Click to expand...
There's absolutely nothing wrong with BASIC.

Unless you're trying to make an argument about how artificial intelligence can't be advanced. His examples to make his point are simply not applicable.

Bob: 'We will never land a man on Mars. Look at a Sopwith Camel. It could never make such a journey.'
Dave: 'No one is proposing prop-driven biplanes can go to Mars. We have come a little way beyond that.'
Bob: 'I used biplanes as an example for dummies who don't understand what rockets can do!'
Dave: 'Then all you are showing is that we couldn't have gone to Mars ... in 1917.'
Dave: 'And that you know virtually nothing about the current progress - and future - of spaceflight.'
 
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DaveC426913 said:
There's absolutely nothing wrong with BASIC.
Click to expand...
Quite.
The vast majority of my "professional" programming for years was done in a variant of BASIC - BACIS[1].
So named because it was developed by Cambridge Interactive Systems for their CAD package.
 
Dywyddyr said:
And again, given that we can't even define "true thought" your claim would appear to be a belief, not a fact.
Click to expand...
I'll give it a go

Computer thought (I am going to keep it as simple as can ie only 1 thought)
Electrical impulse snakes its way through circuitry as per instructions

Brain thought (again 1) Electrical impulse snakes its way through circuitry as per previous input
PLUS
expanding out from the electrical impulse is a chemical process
THE BRAIN THOUGHT IS BUILDING A NEW NEVER BEFORE PRESENT CIRCUIT

How is that for a brain fart? idea?

:)
 
Unless you're trying to make an argument about how artificial intelligence can't be advanced. His examples to make his point are simply not applicable.
Click to expand...

I had also quoted lines of code from PHP prior to your dumb comment that my use of BASIC was my limitations. SO I OBVIOUSLY NEW AT LEAST SOME PROGRAMMING FROM OUR ERA (unless you do not know what PHP is or that it is related to the internet)... MORON!

ANY COMPUTER LANGUAGE consists only of IF/THEN statements no matter how they are written, and Go To statements that activate a switch.

Obviously (to the non-morons here) we do multiples of in each action. The Go TO might lead to more comparisons in s subroutine for example.

It does not negate the fact a computer can do 2 things and 2 things only... It can only compare and point at a switch. NOTHING MORE.

If others wish to compare brains to simple same processes then feel free.

I cannot see a single company actually wanting a computer that could think freely. It would not help anyone with anything to have software that did not do what it was supposed to.

Yes BASIC "If/THEN" statements are perfect for showing NON-PROGRAMMERS (the target audience of this thread if you read the Opening Post) that the computer is comparing... you know by using words like IF and THEN.

I'd put my programming abilities against yours in a heartbeat.

If you are dumb enough to think AI is a real thing.. feel free.
 
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