Not according to the professional medical literature. We must agree to disagree.slotty said:
Aids
- Thread starter Erring Flatley
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Perhaps we might compel our friend to actually cite some of the "professional medical literature":
We're talking about information on AIDS circa 1985-95, obtained in Latin America?
In addition to considering the subsequent twenty years of medical research, we might also think of the scale of malpractice being visited on humanity if people like Slotty and Raithere are so grossly misinformed as to believe that HIV does not kill anyone directly.
If you have professional medical literature of reasonable repute asserting that a death caused by AIDS is caused by HIV, by all means post that reference, and we can all go look it up and marvel at how smart you are.
Short of that, there are schools across the United States, from elementary schools on up to medical schools, that need to be shut down because they, too, teach concepts different from those you learned twenty years ago in Latin America. Even the American Cancer Society is "sold on the lie":
In fact, those are the sentences that raise the proverbial red flags about your topic post:
"Death by AIDS," as people have attempted to point out, comes in many forms. Do patients in Latin America last long enough to die of heart failure after fighting cancer? Did they in 1985? Reconsider Raithere's offering about pneumonia, or the above citation regarding Kaposi's Sarcoma. Either condition can cause respiratory failure.
According to the Immune Response Corporation:
Or there's cytomegalovirus, which doesn't often kill; AIDS patients show symptoms of what is usually an ocular infection in the brain, lungs, spinal cord, bladder, and gastrointestinal tract. CMV is conneted, for instance, to polyradiculopathy (cadua equina syndrome), which "is often fatal unless it is treated very promptly".
The larger point being that none of this is news to those of us who have been taught the lie. You, however, might find it surprising inasmuch as you've been given the superior education offered by Latin American medical institutions. And since we knew in 1985 or so everything we ever needed to know about HIV, we can rest assured that you're not reciting obsolete assertions. Thank you for setting us straight, although the professional references might be worthwhile so we can spread the gospel. In the meantime, someone might want to let the researchers know that there's nothing left to do so they can go home to their families and put this ugly mess behind them.
Maybe Bush can break out the aircraft carrier again to sign the surrender.
Of course, you could always be wrong ... no, that's unthinkable, isn't it? After all, you have a horde of professional medical literature to back you up, even though you won't tell us what it is. Right?
____________________
Notes:
• If you read the medical literature as of ten years ago, you will read that AIDS patients die of the symptoms that I outlined here and in no other way. Mmm-hmm. Ten years ago, you say. From what country?
• I am citing the professional medical literature used by doctors and nurses who work in the field. No, actually, you're not. You are alluding to it, but not citing it. Hinting after it, but not even referring to it.
• If you want to see what is in the medical literature .... In this case, it would be helpful if you actually cited said literature.
• Subscriptons to professional medical journals cost money. Yes, and they're useless until you tell people which edition of which journals to spend on. You keep mentioning "professional medical literature", yet as far as any of us can tell, you have no articles to offer us. We can't go back and review said literature for ourselves, because you're not offering any relevant information.
• Not according to the professional medical literature. What professional medical literature?
• I am citing the professional medical literature used by doctors and nurses who work in the field. No, actually, you're not. You are alluding to it, but not citing it. Hinting after it, but not even referring to it.
• If you want to see what is in the medical literature .... In this case, it would be helpful if you actually cited said literature.
• Subscriptons to professional medical journals cost money. Yes, and they're useless until you tell people which edition of which journals to spend on. You keep mentioning "professional medical literature", yet as far as any of us can tell, you have no articles to offer us. We can't go back and review said literature for ourselves, because you're not offering any relevant information.
• Not according to the professional medical literature. What professional medical literature?
We're talking about information on AIDS circa 1985-95, obtained in Latin America?
In addition to considering the subsequent twenty years of medical research, we might also think of the scale of malpractice being visited on humanity if people like Slotty and Raithere are so grossly misinformed as to believe that HIV does not kill anyone directly.
If you have professional medical literature of reasonable repute asserting that a death caused by AIDS is caused by HIV, by all means post that reference, and we can all go look it up and marvel at how smart you are.
Short of that, there are schools across the United States, from elementary schools on up to medical schools, that need to be shut down because they, too, teach concepts different from those you learned twenty years ago in Latin America. Even the American Cancer Society is "sold on the lie":
In fact, those are the sentences that raise the proverbial red flags about your topic post:
• ABOUT TWENTY YEARS AGO I WORKED IN A MALARIA LAB IN LATIN AMERICA ....
• SHE DISCRIBED THE SYMPTOMS OF DEATH BY AIDS AS FOLLOWS ....
• IT IS MY ABSOLUTE OPINION THAT PERSONS DIGNOSED AS HAVING AIDS, DIE OF CYANIDE AND ONLY OF CYANIDE.
• SHE DISCRIBED THE SYMPTOMS OF DEATH BY AIDS AS FOLLOWS ....
• IT IS MY ABSOLUTE OPINION THAT PERSONS DIGNOSED AS HAVING AIDS, DIE OF CYANIDE AND ONLY OF CYANIDE.
"Death by AIDS," as people have attempted to point out, comes in many forms. Do patients in Latin America last long enough to die of heart failure after fighting cancer? Did they in 1985? Reconsider Raithere's offering about pneumonia, or the above citation regarding Kaposi's Sarcoma. Either condition can cause respiratory failure.
According to the Immune Response Corporation:
Or there's cytomegalovirus, which doesn't often kill; AIDS patients show symptoms of what is usually an ocular infection in the brain, lungs, spinal cord, bladder, and gastrointestinal tract. CMV is conneted, for instance, to polyradiculopathy (cadua equina syndrome), which "is often fatal unless it is treated very promptly".
The larger point being that none of this is news to those of us who have been taught the lie. You, however, might find it surprising inasmuch as you've been given the superior education offered by Latin American medical institutions. And since we knew in 1985 or so everything we ever needed to know about HIV, we can rest assured that you're not reciting obsolete assertions. Thank you for setting us straight, although the professional references might be worthwhile so we can spread the gospel. In the meantime, someone might want to let the researchers know that there's nothing left to do so they can go home to their families and put this ugly mess behind them.
Maybe Bush can break out the aircraft carrier again to sign the surrender.
Of course, you could always be wrong ... no, that's unthinkable, isn't it? After all, you have a horde of professional medical literature to back you up, even though you won't tell us what it is. Right?
____________________
Notes:
American Cancer Society. "What Is Kaposi Sarcoma?" Cancer.org. See http://www.cancer.org/docroot/cri/content/cri_2_4_1x_what_is_kaposis_sarcoma_21.asp?sitearea=cri
Immune Response Corporation. "HIV's Effect on the Body". IMNR.com. See http://www.imnr.com/hiv/hivaids_effect.htm
AIDSmap. "Cytomegalovirus - overview". AIDSmap.com. See http://www.aidsmap.com/en/docs/4F473103-4F2E-45D5-A5C5-6C8AA6F48175.asp
Immune Response Corporation. "HIV's Effect on the Body". IMNR.com. See http://www.imnr.com/hiv/hivaids_effect.htm
AIDSmap. "Cytomegalovirus - overview". AIDSmap.com. See http://www.aidsmap.com/en/docs/4F473103-4F2E-45D5-A5C5-6C8AA6F48175.asp
Aids itself does not kill, it is the effect it has on the immune system that causes a secondary infection to kill. If Aids lowers your bodys defense mechanisim to the extent that a common cold can kill, then its the cold that actually kills. Of course if the victim did'nt have aids then the vast majority would survive a cold. I was merely pionting out that the original poster was wrong. In my line of work i have been unfortunate enough to meet several poor sods with aids- they all died of secondary infections. :m:
I am very sorry. I worked in an AIDS community in the United States not in Latin America. I worked in the AIDS community about ten years ago. I am about four thousand miles from the nearest medical library and not able at this time to travel to one, though I would like to do so when I can and might yet. Nor do I have the thousands of dollars necessary to do a literature search over the internet and even then it would be incomplete. Your citations are not from professional medical journals. They are from material distributed for the general public. I am refering to information in the professional medical journal literature used by doctors and nurses involved with AIDS patients. I am not refering to information supplied to the general public. I will be very happy to supply you with precise citations from the professional medical literature when I am able to travel to a medical library.tiassa said:
I will not try to disagree with you but here is something from the popular literature that I often sing to myself when I think of the AIDS situation. (Please forgive me if these lyrics offend.) These are the official lyrics from Joni Mitchell's Blue:slotty said:
You know I've been to sea betore
Crown and anchor me
Or let me sail away
Hey Blue, here is a song for you
Ink on a pin
Underneath the skin
An empty space to fill in
Well there're so many sinking now
You've got to keep thinking
You can make it thru these waves
Acid, booze, and ass
Needles, guns, and grass
Lots of laughs, lots of laughs
Everybody's saying that hell's the hippest way to go
Well I don't think so
But I'm gonna take a look around it though
Blue, I love you
Blue, here is a shell for you
Inside you'll hear a sigh
A foggy lullaby
There is your song from me
I did not say it was a professional medical journal, I said it was a professional reference, which it is.Erring Flatley said:
As to my needing to go ask a librarian for help, I'll cop a line from Tweety Bird... "He don't know me vewy well do he?"
But how about we take a look at an article from a professional journal or two:
(empahsis mine in all quotations)
BTW professional articles, or at least excerpt from articles, are available at any number of internet sites.
Before you continue to attempt to pass off more of your bullshit I suggest you try to doing some fucking research first.
Here's one to get you on your way:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed
(edited out unnecessary comment)
~Raithere
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Erring Flatley said:
You miss the point:
Tiassa said:
Do you realize the magnitude of fraud you're proposing?
Nonetheless, Raithere has pretty much answered the question of what the medical journals say, unless of course you wish to assert a secret valence of information that casts doctors as willing participants in the fraud you allege.
At this point, the only reason I'd want to see your sources is because there's nothing about how AIDS patients die in Raithere's citations, dated 2003-2004, that seems particularly new compared to even ten years ago. So it's academic curiosity to wonder what medical journals promoted something so oddly incorrect as you assert even a decade ago.
tiassa, there wasnt ever an experiment with cyanide as a TREATMENT for aids was there? i know it sounds stupid to even concider but they did use mercury as a treatment for syiflis so maybe they WERE experimenting with cyanide. If the hospital doctors wernt informed of the experiment then to them it MAY have looked like all the aids patients were dying of cyanide poisioning
but thats all just a guess
but thats all just a guess
BBCBOY has entered the building
Number one
I didn't leave the patients I served before they died , I stayed and watched them and comforted them and held them.
Number two
The style of death described in the initial thread is nothing more than just that... DEATH!
Most people dying of a debilitating disease will pass away displaying the symptoms described, the jaw will drop the bladder will empty the body will simply shut down.
Number three
I have been involved in the treatment of people with AIDS and HIV related illness both voluntarily and professionally as a nurse for the past 21 years and never have I heard such an outlandish proposition. Even in the early days of research when all amnner of wierd and wonderful ideas were put forward.
Number four
Most if not all medical journals are available in most decent public libraries and NOT charged for on the web or anywhere else! If you are being charged you are being ripped off!
Number five
I have complete faith in the medical professions, research, results, practices and policies on the subject of the origins and treatment of HIV related illness or as is so outdatedly referred to AIDS!
Number five
And this is the most important thing.
SHIT HAPPENS to us all!
No matter what precautions you take we are all at risk from this virus because despite all my knowledge experience and level of achievement, due to a condom accident two years ago I can say as a positive person that Erring has spent far too long in the fucking woods!!
Number one
I didn't leave the patients I served before they died , I stayed and watched them and comforted them and held them.
Number two
The style of death described in the initial thread is nothing more than just that... DEATH!
Most people dying of a debilitating disease will pass away displaying the symptoms described, the jaw will drop the bladder will empty the body will simply shut down.
Number three
I have been involved in the treatment of people with AIDS and HIV related illness both voluntarily and professionally as a nurse for the past 21 years and never have I heard such an outlandish proposition. Even in the early days of research when all amnner of wierd and wonderful ideas were put forward.
Number four
Most if not all medical journals are available in most decent public libraries and NOT charged for on the web or anywhere else! If you are being charged you are being ripped off!
Number five
I have complete faith in the medical professions, research, results, practices and policies on the subject of the origins and treatment of HIV related illness or as is so outdatedly referred to AIDS!
Number five
And this is the most important thing.
SHIT HAPPENS to us all!
No matter what precautions you take we are all at risk from this virus because despite all my knowledge experience and level of achievement, due to a condom accident two years ago I can say as a positive person that Erring has spent far too long in the fucking woods!!
Mod Hat - Closure
Mod Hat - Closure
I think we can call that the last word. It's been 24 hours since the med journals were posted. There is no real tie to EM&J. The discussion has become quite lopsided. Do I need more?
This topic is closed.
Mod Hat - Closure
I think we can call that the last word. It's been 24 hours since the med journals were posted. There is no real tie to EM&J. The discussion has become quite lopsided. Do I need more?
This topic is closed.
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