The classification system that placed humans as something separate from the animal kingdom is long outdated. It is now well known that we are a kind of ape. We are animals, just very special ones.
Animal Sacrifices in the Bible?
- Thread starter SetiAlpha6
- Start date
What makes us special? Again what separates us. Maybe someone will answer that.
So animals can't rationalize?
rationalize;
1. transitive and intransitive verb offer reasonable explanation for something: to attempt to justify behavior normally considered irrational or unacceptable by offering an apparently reasonable explanation
I don't see how they can.
Jan.
I appreciate your response, and I know you are a little busy right now, but…
The priests and “all the tribe of Levi” filled their stomachs through the practice of animal sacrifices.
Deuteronomy 18:1-3
1 “The priests, the Levites—all the tribe of Levi—shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel; they shall eat the offerings of the LORD made by fire, and His portion. 2 Therefore they shall have no inheritance among their brethren; the LORD is their inheritance, as He said to them.3 “And this shall be the priest’s due from the people, from those who offer a sacrifice, whether it is bull or sheep: they shall give to the priest the shoulder, the cheeks, and the stomach.
In Leviticus the people were told that their sacrifices were actually an atonement for sin. But then in Hebrews, Paul teaches that these sacrifices were never an atonement for sin, not a single one of them, and that this is why we need Jesus. Was Paul lying or was God? This looks like a clear contradiction to me.
Leviticus 1:2-4
2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘When any one of you brings an offering to the LORD, you shall bring your offering of the livestock—of the herd and of the flock.3 ‘If his offering is a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish; he shall offer it of his own free will at the door of the tabernacle of meeting before the LORD. 4 Then he shall put his hand on the head of the burnt offering, and it will be accepted on his behalf to make atonement for him.
Leviticus 4:13-35
13 ‘Now if the whole congregation of Israel sins unintentionally, and the thing is hidden from the eyes of the assembly, and they have done something against any of the commandments of the LORD in anything which should not be done, and are guilty; 14 when the sin which they have committed becomes known, then the assembly shall offer a young bull for the sin, and bring it before the tabernacle of meeting. 15 And the elders of the congregation shall lay their hands on the head of the bull before the LORD. Then the bull shall be killed before the LORD. 16 The anointed priest shall bring some of the bull’s blood to the tabernacle of meeting. 17 Then the priest shall dip his finger in the blood and sprinkle it seven times before the LORD, in front of the veil. 18 And he shall put some of the blood on the horns of the altar which is before the LORD, which is in the tabernacle of meeting; and he shall pour the remaining blood at the base of the altar of burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of meeting. 19 He shall take all the fat from it and burn it on the altar. 20 And he shall do with the bull as he did with the bull as a sin offering; thus he shall do with it. So the priest shall make atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them. 21 Then he shall carry the bull outside the camp, and burn it as he burned the first bull. It is a sin offering for the assembly. 22 ‘When a ruler has sinned, and done something unintentionally against any of the commandments of the LORD his God in anything which should not be done, and is guilty, 23 or if his sin which he has committed comes to his knowledge, he shall bring as his offering a kid of the goats, a male without blemish. 24 And he shall lay his hand on the head of the goat, and kill it at the place where they kill the burnt offering before the LORD. It is a sin offering. 25 The priest shall take some of the blood of the sin offering with his finger, put it on the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and pour its blood at the base of the altar of burnt offering. 26 And he shall burn all its fat on the altar, like the fat of the sacrifice of the peace offering. So the priest shall make atonement for him concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him. 27 ‘If anyone of the common people sins unintentionally by doing something against any of the commandments of the LORD in anything which ought not to be done, and is guilty, 28 or if his sin which he has committed comes to his knowledge, then he shall bring as his offering a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he has committed. 29 And he shall lay his hand on the head of the sin offering, and kill the sin offering at the place of the burnt offering. 30 Then the priest shall take some of its blood with his finger, put it on the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and pour all the remaining blood at the base of the altar. 31 He shall remove all its fat, as fat is removed from the sacrifice of the peace offering; and the priest shall burn it on the altar for a sweet aroma to the LORD. So the priest shall make atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him. 32 ‘If he brings a lamb as his sin offering, he shall bring a female without blemish. 33 Then he shall lay his hand on the head of the sin offering, and kill it as a sin offering at the place where they kill the burnt offering. 34 The priest shall take some of the blood of the sin offering with his finger, put it on the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and pour all the remaining blood at the base of the altar. 35 He shall remove all its fat, as the fat of the lamb is removed from the sacrifice of the peace offering. Then the priest shall burn it on the altar, according to the offerings made by fire to the LORD. So the priest shall make atonement for his sin that he has committed, and it shall be forgiven him.
In Direct Contrast To…
Hebrews 10:4
4…it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
Hebrews 10:11
11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
Here is another contradiction. God clearly commanded the nation of Israel to perform the animal sacrifice, and even loved the smell of the sacrifice. Yet according to other passages He has not desired that they do this at all. In the scriptures I have already provided, even David proclaims that God has not required this. And that is the very reason that David gives for not giving God sacrifices himself. Was David then breaking the Law of Moses here or not? David did not say anything like, God does not desire sacrifice but I will give it anyway. Please read the verse again. Please explain this one to me, my friend.
Leviticus 8:20-22
20 And he cut the ram into pieces; and Moses burned the head, the pieces, and the fat. 21 Then he washed the entrails and the legs in water. And Moses burned the whole ram on the altar. It was a burnt sacrifice for a sweet aroma, an offering made by fire to the LORD, as the LORD had commanded Moses.
Thank You!
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So why do we have that ability and they don't?
Because we are 'human'? Would be the first answer. As to why humans have that ability, depends on your world view, but the enquiry in and of itself, seems exclusive to humans, which could suggest the seeds of a reason.
Jan.
The question was to you. What is your answer?
We have large brains, culture, language.
Why though?
Because we supposedly morphed from a tree shrew ancestor?
I think it is becuase humans can use symbols and animals can not. Although animals can be trained to mimick human behavior, I don't think they would die for a country or belief.
I expected nothing more from you. I shall take that as a no.
Why? How does killing a harmless goat equate to justice?
The rebuttal to this is dependant upon how you view jesus. Was jesus god? If you say yes please take into account that no death occured, (unless you are willing to state that for 3 whole days there was no such thing as god). In either case there was still no death given that after 3 days jesus was up and walking. If you knew in 3 days time you would be fine, how much of a sacrifice, (other than none), is dying right now? Man I'd do it as a party trick on weekends. If I knew I'd be up and walking 3 days later, my death right now becomes utterly meaningless. It's not a "sacrifice", it's a joke, a bar-room trick.
The only way it is a sacrifice is if, (like your claim concerning animals), there is nothing that lives after, there is nothing that comes back to life.
Please, I'm begging.. try to refute that.
In this instance the sacrifice of a goat is more meanigful. In line with your way of thinking a goat never comes back to life again, never revives or never finds its way to a heaven. In saying, the sacrifice of a goat is a real sacrifice. No such thing can be said of a being that came back to life 3 days later.
In either case, how would the death of god equate to forgiveness? What does the death of anything accomplish and how?
Let's look at the only supportable way: god decided that the only way to forgive people for being the way that he created them to be is to kill things. I'm sorry, someone thinks that's sane?
I hate to be the one to point it out, but "some", "none", or "everything" would be entirely inconsequential to an all-loving, omnipotent being. It would want for nothing and wouldn't frankly give two droplets of rat piss whether you offered it one apple or a gazillion. You need to ask yourself right now what kind of a god would have a go at you for offering less than it wanted. How many apples must you offer? Think about it for a minute.. Are a million apples enough? How do you know? Maybe Cain offered 1 million apples.. you just can't say. So what then? Your entire life is at the mercy of a beings wants? Where is the value in that? If you don't offer enough would you honestly consider yourself as having done wrong? Think about it for a moment.. Think about what your god demands and whether you can perceive any value in it. But, you say to yourself, I am a humble burger cooker on £3 an hour.. can I afford to give it all to the sky being? No... and then you get rebuked for it? Why my friend, a human acted like that I'd beat the ever living shit out of him. You're not a god, you're a human.. who is going to fault you for being human? And if they made you human, who are they to rebuke you?
If god was all loving it wouldnt make the slightest bit of difference. Cain could have offered god a half eaten cookie or king kongs first dump of the day and god would still have a smile on his face. You dare try and rebuke humans for "doing it to get by"? Please..
The scary question is: why wouldn't he? Think about it...
What is he, a fucking woman? My wife "deserves the best", as do my kids.. An all loving being must come second to that... He has no "want" for anything, no "need" for anything..
My wife and kids on the other hand need and want a lot. I was "created" to serve need more than anything else. As a result of that, the "needs" of my family outweigh that of a god that "needs" nothing. It has no need for anything, including love or worship or dead animals or fruit, or a weekends prayer... It has no need whatsoever. There is no viable reason that it does anything.. the same cannot be said of humans. We "need" food, we "need" water, we "need" etc etc etc, god does not. If you dispute this, you turn your god nothing more than a human and therefore not worthy of attention.
Now, I don't need my child to kill an animal, (or human/or god), to be forgiven and thus neither does an all loving, omnipotent entity. If it does then I am better than it, I am above and beyond it.
Please, try to dispute this..
And, in accordance with my knowledge, we are all humans here, the only plausible answer is that jesus was an animal.
Apologies, I don't understand your question. First you would have to define and show evidence for a soul before asking if animals show evidence of a soul. Duh.
Not many, and it depends on which.
Do take into account that your god wanted you to remain an animal instead of being like [one of them]. Until tempted by the snake you didn't even know you were naked and no, you didn't have any morals, (which is what I'm quite sure is the key in your question). Think about that for a while..
There are animals that commit suicide. There are also animals that kill, or try to, kill everything. But while we're on the subject, I bet you couldn't. You'd die to something you can't even see before making good on that bet. Oh you'd beg others to make a gun for you, ah yes, we, like apes, otters etc are a species that use tools. Without them you are weaker than pretty much everything else.
You made the claim, and even stated it was a fact.. The onus is on you son, not me.
We have large brains because early pre humans happened to live in conditions that favored them. They gave a survival advantage to our species. We were able to take advantage of increased reasoning power due to an upright walking position that allowed us to make use of our very flexible and nimble hands and arms.
While our abilities are largely unmatched in nature, some animals do come close. Gorillas can actually learn human sign language.
The Christian death cult emerged from a tradition of sacrifice, but also the scape goat. This was a ritual in Jewish (perhaps pre-Jewish) society where an animal symbolically took on all the sins and misfortune of the village. Then it was driven out or killed. It's a ritual cleansing, not unlike the baptism.
While our abilities are largely unmatched in nature, some animals do come close. Gorillas can actually learn human sign language.
The Christian death cult emerged from a tradition of sacrifice, but also the scape goat. This was a ritual in Jewish (perhaps pre-Jewish) society where an animal symbolically took on all the sins and misfortune of the village. Then it was driven out or killed. It's a ritual cleansing, not unlike the baptism.
No, it's a life cult, eternal life with the Creator.
I call it that because you are disproportionally obsessed with Jesus' death, as opposed to his teachings.
His physical death is a major issue here, His teachings are not under fire, very interesting.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean.