Apocalypse Soon?

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What's going on?

The thread seems to have run its course. Don't bump it for the sake of bumping it.

I didn't bump it for the sake of bumping it. I bumped it to test a hypothesis.

If 26,707 members of the general public look at this topic in 13 days time, then, logically speaking, this is an interesting topic. The fact that so many valued members of this forum don't seem to agree, seems more than a little strange.

You care more about trying to create the impression that a thread about apocalypse has "run it's course", than about apocalypse itself!

Also, after 13 days, no one is willing to discuss the grave implications of the David Price paper. In fact, almost all of the references in my original post have been ignored. The conversation has been extremely silly, so far. We have not even begun the kind of serious discussion one would expect to find on a science discussion forum.

What's going on?

Here is the correct link to the David Price paper:

http://dieoff.org/page137.htm

The link is incorrect in my original post. I have already asked Trippy to fix it for me.

---Futilitist:cool:
 
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This thread has already received 25,426 views in only 12 days. But for some reason, no one but me has made a comment in the last 3 days. This seems strange. What's going on?

---Futilitist:cool:
Been busy. And I have not been keeping up because I have been so darn busy ...sorry:shrug:
Life likes to bite you in the ass especially when you are not looking.
 
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Also, after 13 days, no one is willing to discuss the grave implications of the David Price paper. In fact, almost all of the references in my original post have been ignored. The conversation has been extremely silly, so far.

Well, it is a pretty silly claim. So that makes sense.

What's going on?\

Well, either there's a vast conspiracy to suppress you and your brave, paradigm-shattering ideas - or no one is too interested in discussing YADP (yet another doomsday prediction.)

It is entertaining, though.
 
Silly entertainment for the doomed...

Futilitist said:
Also, after 13 days, no one is willing to discuss the grave implications of the David Price paper. In fact, almost all of the references in my original post have been ignored. The conversation has been extremely silly, so far.

Well, it is a pretty silly claim. So that makes sense.

So you cherry picked my quote just to mirror the "silly" part, and you completely ignored the grave implications of the David Price paper. Nice dodge!

The David Price paper still has not been addressed. I think the explanation for that is that no one can come up with a good reason why eventual collapse is not absolutely inevitable. If you had to acknowledge that an apocalypse is just a matter of time, we could then rationally look at the other references I posted concerning the timing. That would make a very compelling case for an apocalypse soon. You are afraid to lose the argument. That is understandable.

Well, either there's a vast conspiracy to suppress you and your brave, paradigm-shattering ideas - or no one is too interested in discussing YADP (yet another doomsday prediction.)

It is entertaining, though.

I am leaning toward the conspiracy idea, though I wouldn't necessarily call it vast. No one is too interested in discussing it here, that's for sure.

I'm glad you find it entertaining, though. So do I. And so do 26,907 viewers, so far!

I think it would be even more entertaining if people weren't so afraid to take a look at the David Price paper. I must be right about apocalypse soon.:eek:

---Futilitist:cool:
 
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I didn't bump it for the sake of bumping it. I bumped it to test a hypothesis.

No, you bumped it because you're not getting enough attention. And for people such as yourself, attention is what this whole thing is about, so...

If 26,707 members of the general public look at this topic in 13 days time, then, logically speaking, this is an interesting topic. The fact that so many valued members of this forum don't seem to agree, seems more than a little strange.

No, logically-speaking, it just means that the topic title is interesting. The lack of responses implies, again, logically-speaking (since in a thread such as this, logical statements require such a preface to stand out against all the bullshit) the topic itself isn't very interesting.

You care more about trying to create the impression that a thread about apocalypse has "run it's course", than about apocalypse itself!

1) I created no such impression. Zero replies in three days creates that impression.
2) There is no "apocalypse itself," so in that regard there's nothing to care about.

Also, after 13 days, no one is willing to discuss the grave implications of the David Price paper. In fact, almost all of the references in my original post have been ignored. The conversation has been extremely silly, so far. We have not even begun the kind of serious discussion one would expect to find on a science discussion forum.

As bilvon mentioned, the premise of the topic (as well as Price's paper) is quite silly, so it's only natural that the conversation is silly also.

What's going on?

Let me guess: The Illuminati is silencing us all?


--Futilitist:cool:

You realize that your name and avatar are just to the left of your post, correct? A signature is redundant.
 
Creating impressions

No, you bumped it because you're not getting enough attention. And for people such as yourself, attention is what this whole thing is about, so...

You have no way of knowing that. Maybe I have a different reason.

No, logically-speaking, it just means that the topic title is interesting. The lack of responses implies, again, logically-speaking (since in a thread such as this, logical statements require such a preface to stand out against all the bullshit) the topic itself isn't very interesting.

Billvon just said the topic was entertaining.


1) I created no such impression. Zero replies in three days creates that impression.

1. Then why bother to say this:

Balerion said:
The thread seems to have run its course. Don't bump it for the sake of bumping it.

Seems like you are trying to create an impression.

2) There is no "apocalypse itself," so in that regard there's nothing to care about.

2. So says you. You don't support that statement in any way. You are trying to create another impression.

As bilvon mentioned, the premise of the topic (as well as Price's paper) is quite silly, so it's only natural that the conversation is silly also.

Bilvon tried to create that impression by cherry picking my comment. You are doing the exactly the same thing a little more explicitly. Just to be clear, the discussion happening on this thread is silly. The David Price paper is not silly. You are just afraid to discuss it.

Let me guess: The Illuminati is silencing us all?

I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you some kind of conspiracy nut?

You realize that your name and avatar are just to the left of your post, correct? A signature is redundant.

I like to sign my posts, since a lot of thought goes into each one. I notice that you don't sign yours.

---Futilitist:cool:
 
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Been busy. And I have not been keeping up because I have been so darn busy ...sorry:shrug:
Life likes to bite you in the ass especially when you are not looking.
That is a great analogy for apocalypse!

---Futilitist:cool:
 
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You have no way of knowing that. Maybe I have a different reason.

Chances are, you don't. For your motive to be different, you'd have to be something other than just another in a long line of loons propagating some asinine theory in spite of any evidence for it, or all evidence against it. And since that seems to describe you to a T, I'd have to say I'm probably right about this.

Billvon just said the topic was entertaining.

Entertaining is not the same as interesting. Silly topics such as this can be entertaining, but are rarely--if ever--interesting.

1. Then why bother to say this:



Seems like you are trying to create an impression.

I said that because I was annoyed at a cook bumping his own dead thread without adding anything of substance. Your post was essentially, "Nobody's looking at me anymore! Whyyyyyyyy???" And that's bogus, so I called you on it.

And I say again, I created no impression. The deadness of your thread creates an impression of its own, because "It has run its course" is the most likely reason any thread goes silent. You, on the other hand, clearly are trying to create the impression that nefarious forces are responsible.

2. So says you. You don't support that statement in any way. You are trying to create another impression.

I need to support the claim that there is no immanent apocalypse? Might as well ask me to support the claim that there is no Easter Bunny.

Bilvon tried to create that impression by cherry picking my comment. You are doing the exactly the same thing a little more explicitly. Just to be clear, the discussion happening on this thread is silly. The David Price paper is not silly. You are just afraid to discuss it.

You said the conversation was silly, he said (and I echoed) the whole premise is silly. What about that is cherry-picking?

The David Price paper is a joke. It's beyond silly. I have no fear in discussing silly things, I simply have no interest in discussing this one. Nor does anyone else, given how bloody dead your thread went.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you some kind of conspiracy nut?


I'm just waiting to hear what kind of lunatic theory you'll come up with for why your thread went silent. I figured it would be along the lines of some massive cover-up.

I like to sign my posts, since a lot of thought goes into each one. I notice that you don't sign yours.

Do you not know what redundant means?

See the box to the left? Each post is already signed. Automatically.
 
Chances are, you don't. For your motive to be different, you'd have to be something other than just another in a long line of loons propagating some asinine theory in spite of any evidence for it, or all evidence against it. And since that seems to describe you to a T, I'd have to say I'm probably right about this.

I'm glad that you think this.

Entertaining is not the same as interesting. Silly topics such as this can be entertaining, but are rarely--if ever--interesting.

OK

I said that because I was annoyed at a cook bumping his own dead thread without adding anything of substance. Your post was essentially, "Nobody's looking at me anymore! Whyyyyyyyy???" And that's bogus, so I called you on it.

And I say again, I created no impression. The deadness of your thread creates an impression of its own, because "It has run its course" is the most likely reason any thread goes silent. You, on the other hand, clearly are trying to create the impression that nefarious forces are responsible.

We have already covered this.

I need to support the claim that there is no immanent apocalypse? Might as well ask me to support the claim that there is no Easter Bunny.

Easter Bunny=Apocalypse? I don't think so.

If this was an Easter Bunny thread I would ask you to support the claim that there is no Easter Bunny. Since this is a thread on immanent apocalypse, however, you need to support the claim that there is no immanent apocalypse. That makes a lot of sense. Bringing the Easter Bunny into this is just stupid.

You said the conversation was silly, he said (and I echoed) the whole premise is silly. What about that is cherry-picking?

The David Price paper is a joke. It's beyond silly. I have no fear in discussing silly things, I simply have no interest in discussing this one.

Are you afraid of the impression you are creating that you may, in fact, be afraid of discussing the David Price paper? That is what it looks like to me, and it is likely to be what it looks like to 27,342 viewers. Calling the David Price paper "beyond silly" isn't working. And saying you have no interest in discussing it seems like yet another dodge. It is just making it look like you are afraid. You may be forced to address the David Price paper after all.

Nor does anyone else, given how bloody dead your thread went.

Your hyperbolic claim of unity, against the idea of apocalypse, is unfounded. And this thread seems pretty active to me.

I'm just waiting to hear what kind of lunatic theory you'll come up with for why your thread went silent. I figured it would be along the lines of some massive cover-up.

If you want to discuss conspiracy theories, please start your own thread on the topic.

Do you not know what redundant means?

Of course I do. But I still like to sign my posts.

See the box to the left? Each post is already signed. Automatically.

Why does signing my posts trouble you so much? Anyway, I would much rather discuss the topic of the thread.

---Futilitist:cool:
 
So you cherry picked my quote just to mirror the "silly" part, and you completely ignored the grave implications of the David Price paper.

More like "did not take very seriously."

I think the explanation for that is that no one can come up with a good reason why eventual collapse is absolutely inevitable.

I agree. Neither you nor Price have.

If you had to acknowledge that an apocalypse is just a matter of time, we could then rationally look at the other references I posted concerning the timing. That would make a very compelling case for an apocalypse soon. You are afraid to lose the argument. That is understandable.

Whatever you say! In 2016 when our economy doesn't collapse from $24/gallon gasoline I am sure you'll have another paper proving that while Price was wrong, this new guy is certainly right, and the Apocalypse will come in 2020 instead.
 
Easter Bunny=Apocalypse? I don't think so.

Oh but it does. They're both fictional, and neither have any evidence to support their existence (or immanent arrival).

If this was an Easter Bunny thread I would ask you to support the claim that there is no Easter Bunny.

Did that really go over your head?

Since this is a thread on immanent apocalypse, however, you need to support the claim that there is no immanent apocalypse.

No, I don't, because you haven't presented us with any reason to believe that an apocalypse is immanent.

Are you afraid of the impression you are creating that you may, in fact, be afraid of discussing the David Price paper?

I'll take "Poor Sentence Structure" for $1000, Alex.

Wanna try that again, chief?

That is what it looks like to me, and it is likely to be what it looks like to 27,342 viewers. Calling the David Price paper "beyond silly" isn't working. And saying you have no interest in discussing it seems like yet another dodge. It is just making it look like you are afraid. You may be forced to address the David Price paper after all.

And you calling me a scaredy-cat for not deconstructing an idiotic paper by some nobody looks like you're so desperate for attention you'll resort to childish baiting to get your fix.

If this isn't clear enough for you, I don't give a shit what you think about me.

Your hyperbolic claim of unity, against the idea of apocalypse, is unfounded.

It's founded by four days now of no one talking about your apocalypse.

And this thread seems pretty active to me.

Yeah, with a meta-discussion entirely unrelated to the topic. We're just talking about you and why your thread is dead.

If you want to discuss conspiracy theories, please start your own thread on the topic.

I'm not starting one, I'm waiting for yours.

Of course I do. But I still like to sign my posts.

And it's still pointless. Signing it because you're proud of it is pointless, because the system already does that for you.

Why does signing my posts trouble you so much? Anyway, I would much rather discuss the topic of the thread.

---Futilitist:cool:

It doesn't. I just wanted to point out how stupid it is to sign a post that signs itself.
 
More like "did not take very seriously."

You take it seriously enough to leave another comment.

I agree. Neither you nor Price have.

Thanks for catching my typo. I fixed it in my post.

Whatever you say! In 2016 when our economy doesn't collapse from $24/gallon gasoline I am sure you'll have another paper proving that while Price was wrong, this new guy is certainly right, and the Apocalypse will come in 2020 instead.

Perhaps. We will just have to wait and see. But Price doesn't try to time the apocalypse, which you would know if you had read it. He just shows why it is inevitable.

While we just are waiting around to see if an immanent apocalypse happens, let's discuss why is David Price wrong about inevitable apocalypse, shall we?

---Futilitist:cool:
 
More meta-discussion

Oh but it does. They're both fictional, and neither have any evidence to support their existence (or immanent arrival).

Wrong.

Did that really go over your head?

Nothing you say could possibly go over my head.

No, I don't, because you haven't presented us with any reason to believe that an apocalypse is immanent.

I want to get through the inevitable part first. Then we can talk about the immanent part.

I'll take "Poor Sentence Structure" for $1000, Alex.

Wanna try that again, chief?

Nope.

More dodging and weaving on the David Price paper. Wanna try that again, chief?

And you calling me a scaredy-cat for not deconstructing an idiotic paper by some nobody...

An idiotic paper by some nobody?

David Price

Ph.D. in anthropology, University of Chicago.

Dr. Price, 1940 - April 21, 1999, anthropologist, linguist and research associate with Cornell's Population & Development Program. Formerly an instructor of anthropology at Hamilton College and the University of Brasilia.

Conducted field work with the Huichol Indians of Mexico and the Nambiquara of western Brazil.

Editor, Cornell College of Engineering.
Author, "Before the Bulldozer: the Nambiquara Indians and the World Bank", 1980.

...looks like you're so desperate for attention you'll resort to childish baiting to get your fix.

It looks like you are the desperate one. No one is baiting you.

If this isn't clear enough for you, I don't give a shit what you think about me.

OK.

It's founded by four days now of no one talking about your apocalypse.

Which happened to coincide with my post in which I quoted the David Price paper along with his shocking graphs of die off examples from nature.

Yeah, with a meta-discussion entirely unrelated to the topic. We're just talking about you and why your thread is dead.

And that is because that is what you choose to do. I would rather discuss the David Price paper as I have repeatedly said.

I'm not starting one, I'm waiting for yours.

You first.

And it's still pointless. Signing it because you're proud of it is pointless, because the system already does that for you.

It is not pointless. I am more proud than you.

It doesn't. I just wanted to point out how stupid it is to sign a post that signs itself.

Noted.

---Futilitist:cool:
 
Price on Malthus

And that concludes the latest irrelevant side track track meta-discussion. I thought I would take this opportunity to get this thread back on topic by going back to basics. Way back.

Here is a section of another essay by David Price, this time on the father of apocalyptic thinking, Thomas Robert Malthus.

http://www.mnforsustain.org/price_d_malthus_false_hopes.htm

Of Population and False Hopes:

Malthus and His Legacy

David Price
March 1998

Then, beginning at mid-century, there was renewed interest in Malthus, as concern about the relation between means of subsistence and population shifted from an economic perspective to a more demographic outlook. Joseph Spengler's voluminous scholarship in both areas (see Spengler, 1972) was transitional, and a number of scholars, including Kenneth Boulding (1966), Lester Brown (1974), Paul and Anne Ehrlich (1970), and Garrett Hardin (1968), began expressing concern about the runaway growth of world population in the sixties and seventies. This rapid growth came to be seen as a result of the exploitation of nonrenewable resources, an idea that had its roots in Malthus's observations about limitations to growth in the means of subsistence. And the eventual consequences seemed likely to be the "positive checks" that Malthus's name evoked for my father--famine, war, and pestilence.

Malthus had lived in an agrarian society that was as yet little changed by the Industrial Revolution, and when he thought about means of subsistence, he thought about land which, if properly treated, would continue to produce a crop, year after year. When he suggested, for purposes of argument, that means of subsistence might increase arithmetically, he was presenting a best-case scenario. And eventually he came to realize that there was an impediment to the continual improvement of productivity: the law of diminishing returns. One might, for example, increase the productivity of a field with acid soil by putting a hundred pounds of lime on it, but another hundred pounds of lime would not increase productivity again by the same amount, and a third hundred pounds would increase productivity even less.

A new viewpoint that has arisen since Malthus's time sees any increase in productivity as temporary and contingent on special conditions, and sees productivity as more likely to diminish. Farmlands erode, mines are worked out, old-growth timber is used up, fisheries are exhausted. It is still true, as Malthus observed, that population rises to the extent that means of subsistence permit. But the stock of resources upon which subsistence depends does not just rise slower than population; it may actually fall as population rises. In fact, resources may diminish because population rises, so that their availability is inversely proportional to population size.

Malthus noted that constraints to the growth of population were eased in new colonies, where means of subsistence are abundant. So he would not have been surprised that world population grew as the Mississippi Valley and other fertile lands were put to the plow. But another factor that Malthus could not have understood caused population to grow even faster. The new technology that was beginning to develop in his day made it possible to use energy from fossil fuels for human purposes. This completely changed the relationship between the labor that individuals can contribute and the goods they consume. Abundant, cheap energy from fossil fuels can leverage the actual physical energy that humans put into economic activities, so that they get an enormous return for their effort. A man driving a tractor can cultivate acres more than a man with a hoe, or even a man with a team of oxen. The effect of cheap energy from fossil fuels is the same as the effect of abundant resources in new colonies, only far more intense. It makes means of subsistence vastly more plentiful and allows population to expand with great rapidity. But reserves of fossil fuels, as well as other resources exploited through their use, appear to be finite. They are not inexhaustible. So while population grows by using them, it also uses them up, steadily bringing closer a day when remaining reserves will be insufficient to supply the existing population (Catton, 1980).

Opposing this bleak view are many economists who believe that there are no limits to growth. They argue that resources cannot just run out, because their availability is a function of demand. It is unrealistic to see resources as simply present or absent; they exist in a range of different grades. Copper, for example, can sometimes be found in its pure, metallic form, and it can also be found in a variety of ores ranging from those that contain a high percentage of copper to those that contain very little. Resources that can be most easily exploited —like pure, native copper— are used first; but a continuing demand results in the development of techniques to exploit resources of lower grade. As long as demand is great enough, resources will always be available.

Central to this view is the belief that whenever new technologies are needed, they will develop. Those who take this position observe that most of the past century's economic growth resulted from technological progress and conclude that the only limiting factor to economic production is knowledge. The essential means of production is neither capital, natural resources, nor labor, but the ability to manage them; and as long as knowledge advances, the economy will continue to expand (Solow, 1970; Drucker, 1993; Sagoff, 1995). Since humans are unique in the way they can use knowledge to construct their own environment, they are immune from the constraints that would limit the population of other animals (Preston, 1986, p. 69). Growth and expansion have always been characteristic of the human species, and there is no reason why humans of the future cannot go on using yet more energy, growing in population, and establishing, if necessary, colonies on other planets.

At the end of the twentieth century, debate about the relationship between population and subsistence is still polarized by the same difference of underlying assumptions that animated the controversy two hundred years ago. On the one hand are those who believe in the perfectibility of man; who think there is something special about human beings that sets them apart from other animals; who believe that humans can decide what their future should be and make it happen. And on the other hand are those who see no evidence that any special ability has exempted human populations of the past from the principles that govern the populations of other species, and see no reason to believe that such an exemption will prevail in the future.

On the one hand are those who believe that science, knowledge, and invention make all things possible; and on the other hand are those —many of them scientists— who believe that there are some natural processes that humans can understand, but not affect. Daniel and Robert Malthus, father and son, are part of a procession that marches in double file down through the centuries. With Daniel, on the left, are Rousseau, Godwin, Condorcet, Marx and Engels, and today's economists of growth. With Robert, on the right, are Voltaire, Darwin, Wallace, Spencer, and those who now see a threat in continued growth. So little progress has been made in resolving the debate that one might suppose the difference between the two columns to be more a matter of predisposition than force of reason.

But, while the underlying assumptions of the parties to the debate have remained virtually the same, many other things have changed in the two hundred years since Malthus wrote his first Essay. Demographic information has accumulated, the population of the world has grown, and the focus of attention has shifted. The essential ideas associated with the name of Malthus are different at the end of the twentieth century than they were in the nineteenth century.

Malthus had very little hard demographic information at his disposal. He did not even know the population of England. In 1798 there were still people who opposed a national census on the grounds that it would disclose to England's enemies the number of troops that she could field in time of war. The population of the world as a whole was completely unknown; earlier in the eighteenth century, in the absence of empirical data, it had been a topic of philosophical debate. Montesquieu (1734) argued that world population had diminished since the days of the ancient Romans, and Hume (1752) argued that it had grown. Malthus, himself, thought that population fluctuated over the long run, growing until it was cut back by positive checks, and then growing again.

In the last two centuries, the taking of censuses has become a common practice and today a wealth of demographic information is available for study. We have a fairly accurate idea of the whole Earth's population, and we know how it is changing. We can make projections about the future, and techniques have even been developed to approximate world population in times past (McEvedy & Jones, 1978, give a popular summary). We know that when Malthus was writing his first Essay, world population was under one billion, and that it is now nearly six billion —and growing.

And in the last two hundred years the focus of attention has shifted away from Malthus's conclusion and settled on his initial postulates. His explanation of why poverty cannot be eliminated from society has been largely forgotten, but the idea that population tends to grow faster than means of subsistence, which he made no pretense of having originated, has become firmly associated with his name.

Indeed, it is sometimes asserted that Malthus was "wrong" because population has grown more slowly than he predicted, while means of subsistence have grown much faster (Winch, 1987, p. 96). But Malthus never predicted that population and means of subsistence would grow at precisely geometric and arithmetical rates; his mathematical examples were only used to call attention to a qualitative difference in the two parameters. As John Stuart Mill (1864, 1, p. 439) pointed out, "every candid reader knows that Mr. Malthus laid no stress on this unlucky attempt to give numerical precision to things which do not admit of it, and every person capable of reasoning must see that it is wholly superfluous to his argument." What is central to his argument is the claim that population always expands to the limits imposed by means of subsistence. And the evidence continues to show that it does. The more food the world produces, the more its population grows.

Finally, this shift to a broader perspective has induced many of Malthus's intellectual heirs to believe, or at least hope —along with their more idealistic adversaries— that humans may be able to take control of their destiny. They shrink from the implications of their own arguments —as Malthus had done— and with better reason. For in Malthus's view, the primary consequence of the tendency for population to grow to the limits imposed by means of subsistence was poverty, and acknowledging human limitations meant accepting the inevitability of poverty in human society. But today, the apparent consequence of the tendency for population to grow at the expense of its means of subsistence is an impending disaster of such unimaginable proportions that few are willing to accept its inevitability. Almost everyone urges measures to avert the crisis--although strategies differ. And whether human beings can, in fact, take such control of their destiny remains to be seen.

Hopefully this will provide some historical context on the topic of apocalypse, and help generate some good discussion.

---Futilitist:cool:
 
The inevitable breakdown of industrialism has been obvious since 1972, when The Limits to Growth was published. That it will be apocalyptic should be equally obvious - between climate change and bad management, between overpopulation and energy-dependency, the breakdowns will be massive, global and devastating. This isn't about bankers or production; it's about dustbowls inland, water up the wazoo on the seaboards, starvation, migration, pandemic and strife on a scale that makes WWII look like a soccer match. Ironically, the last of the fossil fuel will be wasted on wars over the last of the fossil fuel.

It's already too late. I knew it was too late in the mid-70's - not because of any single even that took place, but because, in the face of clearly visible signs and responsible scientific studies, governments, churches and advocacy groups of every stripe were still arguing over the morality (!!) of birth control; the transporting of raw materials and manufactured goods from one continent to another kept increasing; the most powerful nations (they know who they are) were obstructing instead of helping UN efforts to relieve the worst human hellholes; oil companies began drilling under the ocean.
For me, all hope was lost with the advent of imported bottled water. In plastic bottles. That's just frickin nuts!

In the '70's, it was reversible. In the '90's, it was haltable. Now, it might be possible, with drastic action, to mitigate the worst disasters. Nothing rational was done then. Nothing rational was done in Kyoto, nor after the scientists' warning http://www.worldtrans.org/whole/warning.html. Nothing rational will be done now - or ever.

Thank you so much for such a reasoned, logical, and rational comment. I did not see your comment until today due to your post being in moderation or I would have responded immediately.

So, I am not alone in thinking that an apocalypse is immanent. Yippee! You made my day. Please come back to the discussion.

---Futilitist:cool:
 
Ironically, I am not alone

The inevitable breakdown of industrialism has been obvious since 1972, when The Limits to Growth was published. That it will be apocalyptic should be equally obvious - between climate change and bad management, between overpopulation and energy-dependency, the breakdowns will be massive, global and devastating. This isn't about bankers or production; it's about dustbowls inland, water up the wazoo on the seaboards, starvation, migration, pandemic and strife on a scale that makes WWII look like a soccer match. Ironically, the last of the fossil fuel will be wasted on wars over the last of the fossil fuel.

It's already too late. I knew it was too late in the mid-70's - not because of any single even that took place, but because, in the face of clearly visible signs and responsible scientific studies, governments, churches and advocacy groups of every stripe were still arguing over the morality (!!) of birth control; the transporting of raw materials and manufactured goods from one continent to another kept increasing; the most powerful nations (they know who they are) were obstructing instead of helping UN efforts to relieve the worst human hellholes; oil companies began drilling under the ocean.
For me, all hope was lost with the advent of imported bottled water. In plastic bottles. That's just frickin nuts!

In the '70's, it was reversible. In the '90's, it was haltable. Now, it might be possible, with drastic action, to mitigate the worst disasters. Nothing rational was done then. Nothing rational was done in Kyoto, nor after the scientists' warning http://www.worldtrans.org/whole/warning.html. Nothing rational will be done now - or ever.

Thank you so much for such a reasoned, logical, and rational comment. I did not see your comment until today due to your post being in moderation, or I would have responded to it immediately. It appears on page one of the thread. Ironically, this post went into moderation as well! I used my workaround to post it anyway.

So, I am not alone in thinking that an apocalypse is immanent. Yippee! You made my day. Please come back to the discussion.

---Futilitist:cool:
 
On second thought...

Here is a thread I just found in Site Feedback:

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?133101-Moderator-approval-denied

Jeeves said:
Moderator approval denied
Yesterday, for the second time, a post of mine was held up "pending moderator approval". The last one was posted after, i suppose, due consideration.
This time, it disappeared for good. And i have decided to follow its example.
Thank you for editing me out.

Crunchy Cat said:
It would be sad to see you go Jeeves, especially due to a software error (have you seen the many threads concerning it?).

Jeeves said:
No, i haven't read any. Oversight. Maybe i'll check back in a while, in case it's resolved.

Kittamaru said:
Jeeves, I sent you a PM about the issue at hand - I hope it is to your satisfaction and I wanted to let you know it isn't anything against you but an issue with our software.

It appears I may have lost one of my only allies on this thread. If Jeeves' post had appeared when it was supposed to, this thread would be vastly different (better). I would have responded favorably to him and it seems likely he would have made more posts here. Instead, he may have resigned his membership in frustration, and the level of discourse on this thread has suffered greatly as a result. What a terrible coincidence.

On a positive note, however, "Apocalypse Soon?" has now attracted 30,026 views!

---Futilitist:cool:
 
On second thought...

Here is a thread I just found in Site Feedback:

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?133101-Moderator-approval-denied

Jeeves said:
Moderator approval denied
Yesterday, for the second time, a post of mine was held up "pending moderator approval". The last one was posted after, i suppose, due consideration.
This time, it disappeared for good. And i have decided to follow its example.
Thank you for editing me out.

Crunchy Cat said:
It would be sad to see you go Jeeves, especially due to a software error (have you seen the many threads concerning it?).

Jeeves said:
No, i haven't read any. Oversight. Maybe i'll check back in a while, in case it's resolved.

Kittamaru said:
Jeeves, I sent you a PM about the issue at hand - I hope it is to your satisfaction and I wanted to let you know it isn't anything against you but an issue with our software.

It appears I may have lost one of my only allies on this thread. If Jeeves' post had appeared when it was supposed to, this thread would be vastly different (better). I would have responded favorably to him and it seems likely he would have made more posts here. Instead, he may have resigned his membership in frustration, and the level of discourse on this thread has suffered greatly as a result. What a terrible coincidence.

On a positive note, however, "Apocalypse Soon?" has now attracted 30,026 views!

---Futilitist:cool:

PS---This post also was a victim of the moderation "bug", but I used my clever workaround once again.
 
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