Ban Fox Hunting?

[Sum Guy called arky]

We as humans are lucky. Lucky we, along with apes, monkeys, etc. are the only things on the planet that can make decisions for ourselves. other animals have to risk their lives getting food, water and anything they NEED. they chickens, they don't have a choice. chickens are not an extra, they are just "stripped down" basics!!!

 

[Sum Guy called arky]

Mod Edit - This quote referred to text that has been deemed unsuitable to this discussion.

Oy, I'm only 12!!!

 

[milkweed]

That is indeed the problem (if one wants to take a scintific numerical approach to it) that we dont have long term fox numbers and attacks info. On the other hand, it may well be that this does represent an increase in fox activity, which would require addressing. I guess we'll have to agree that there is not enough evidence, and descend merely to personal slagging and imputations of the other party.

It would depend on the manner of how its addressed. I dont know what the laws/expectations society places on pet owners in scotland is. But it seems that would be the place to start. Educating people how to avoid conflict with the wildlife should be a priority. Targeting specific problems rather than undertaking a "hunt all fox until the problems end" (as some would suggest) seems rather primative.

I posted some links to some information specific to the uk about the benefit of fox to farms earlier in this thread.

<BR>&nbsp;

 

[milkweed]

one thing no one so far has said. evolution. the more people harm foxes the more aggressive they get. before long we could be dealing with foxes turned wolves!
it does sound a bit far-fetched but, say dogs. we became kinder tothem, trained them and cherished them. they evolved to ecome trained pets, when at first they were agressive beasts! Imagine the opposite of that. If we killed foxes, would they strike back??? (not the dead ones of course!)

you may want to read this link. Someone did an experiment with selective breeding for tameness.
<BR>&nbsp;
http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~ebertani/Evaluationoftameness.htm
<br>&nbsp;

 

[Sum Guy called arky]

.buffalo.edu/~ebertani/Evaluationoftameness.htm[/url]
<br>&nbsp;

thanks.
I now think that the farmers should train the foxes, not kill them though....

 

[Sum Guy called arky]

but will the ones that aren't trained attack, like wolves could have been trained as dogs, but....

 

[Roman]

I hunt. I hunt for food, I hunt for sport. But for me, all the sport is in getting something to eat. There's no "the dear was beautiful. it was a beautiful hunt. what a beautiful animal. blahblahblah." No, it's food. My food. Nothing more and not much less.

I voted against the ban. Let the brits keep their sport.
I don't see what the big deal with animal cruelty is, honestly.
Like seal clubbing? WHO CARES. Just because it's cute and fuzzy doesnt mean you cant club the fuck out of it and make a coat. There's millions of seals, and the clubbing is regulated by liberal (in this case conservationist) countries.

The foxes aren't headed towards extinction, what's the matter with killing a few?
It's not like the hunters are poking the fox with sticks, they're using dogs. It's like spectator nature.
And these foxes aren't even eadible. They're not much of anything, really, except maybe kinda cute. WELL GUESSS WHAT! UGLY ANIMALS NEED YOUR PROTECTION TOO!

Yog Sothoth, you guys won't understand where I'm coming from at all, but I'll try.
There's something very primal, and very simple in a hunt. Whether it's throwing a rock at a ptarmigan, shooting a moose, or running down an animal with a pack of dogs, the hunt speaks to a part of the hunter that no other activity can. There's very little of the intellectual in the hunt; I'm having a hard time articulating because of that. It's biological, there's something intrinisically right in doing it.

So what if these Brits ride on ponies or the ponies ride them or they ride eachother. They're getting off and not hurting anybody except a fox. Whoop-dee-doo, whatever floats their boat.

 

[milkweed]

blahblahblah."

Snipped things to focus on the topic

The foxes aren't headed towards extinction, what's the matter with killing a few?

Studies indicate the fox is a benefit rather than a hinderance to people. There was a case for a plausible cost-benefit analysis which would reveal that killing foxes was counter-productive for farmers who were concerned about mammalian herbivores causing crop damage. It was estimated that, given that half of the fox diet is rabbit, each fox may prevent between £26 and £145 worth of damage a year overall, and that, due to growth of the rabbit population, that would have the knock-on effect of preventing damage worth between £49 and £608 per fox a year. In addition, a follow-up study by Roger Trout and colleagues, which was written up in the ``Journal of Zoology'', pointed out that the total saving to farmers may be in the region of £100 million a year.

Yog Sothoth, you guys won't understand where I'm coming from at all, but I'll try.
There's something very primal, and very simple in a hunt. Whether it's throwing a rock at a ptarmigan, shooting a moose, or running down an animal with a pack of dogs, the hunt speaks to a part of the hunter that no other activity can. There's very little of the intellectual in the hunt; I'm having a hard time articulating because of that. It's biological, there's something intrinisically right in doing it.

ah, an appeal to the lesser evolved sense of self. And I agree there is little of the intellectual in the hunt, nor in the justifications used to continue such practice.

So what if these Brits ride on ponies or the ponies ride them or they ride eachother. They're getting off and not hurting anybody except a fox. Whoop-dee-doo, whatever floats their boat.

Brits can still ride ponies. No ban on that. Fox hunting with dogs and horses is singularily about killing fox with dogs. And there isnt a ban on killing all fox, just one method, using dogs. As you said, it appeals to your primal sense of self worth. An emotional appeal for something that simply isnt needed and seems to be counter productive to actual human benefit.


<BR>&nbsp;

 

[Sum Guy called arky]

I don't see what the big deal with animal cruelty is, honestly.
Like seal clubbing? WHO CARES. Just because it's cute and fuzzy doesnt mean you cant club the fuck out of it and make a coat...
The foxes aren't headed towards extinction, what's the matter with killing a few?
It's not like the hunters are poking the fox with sticks, they're using dogs. It's like spectator nature.
And these foxes aren't even eadible. They're not much of anything, really, except maybe kinda cute. WELL GUESSS WHAT! UGLY ANIMALS NEED YOUR PROTECTION TOO!

Do you know how raceist that sounds? 70 years ago, coloured people were treated as if they didn't have feelings, is that any different???
who cares if animals die? I DO!! AND SO DO THE ANIMALS!!!
we don't need them for anything, well we don't need huge buildings, they could be smaller. but we still don't knock them down for the hell of it (unless you're bin laden!!)

 

[Tiassa]

Mod Hat - Closure

Mod Hat - Done

And I thank ye very much.

Update: That was a mess. Almost as much as interrupting the House of Commons. Barring mass protests and riot police in the street on this issue--or, at least, in my neighborhood several thousand miles away--I think I'm going to leave this one closed.

A couple posts have been deleted. A couple have been edited. And then there's the residual of what appears in quotes of posts. That was an impressive display of animosity. Ah, the "dignity" of the hunt.

Love one another. Now!