Becoming aware......

[Jan Ardena]

A4ever.....

Someone who is enlightened?

Yes.

I don't know. I think there is a form of believe in everything.

Science: we must trust the material world.
Religion: we must trust a book or our experiences or someone else.

If someone said to me I “MUST” trust, I wouldn’t trust them.

Do all good actions cause evil counter reactions?

No.

Why wasn't a 'better' world created?

There are innumerable better worlds, we just happen to be in this one.

It would still be tricking us though... not?

How can you trick a wise man.

Talking about little animals: what should you do when your dog has flees?
You can't kill them...

Firstly, the idea of keeping cats and dogs as pets (family members), keeping them in the house, sleeping on/in the bed in and out of the kitchen, is not something a serious devotee of God would do. If they kept dogs the dog would serve a practical purpose within its nature, and would be kept out of the house.
Fleas only becomes a problem to its owner, when the dog is in the house.
Question: what happens in the wild when animals have fleas?

But doesn't the bible say that we can eat animals? Somewhere in Genesis?

Yes, but under strict conditions.

At least animals are sacrificed in there.

Again under strict conditions.
There is a reason for those conditions,

Could you give a definition of mentality? It is a returning word and it seems important.

[mentality n 1: a habitual or characteristic mental attitude that determines
how you will interpret and respond to situations.

What are these few things?

What have you done these past 6 months?
I’m not trying to evade the question, my intention is for you to realise the answer for yourself.

What would be the right punishment?

Whatever would truly deter him from committing that act for whatever reason. He may undergo a situation where someone close to him gets killed by someone with a similar mentality, he could get killed and undergo the same fear as he had given out. He may be hanged, gassed or electrocuted the fear of which may be equal to the fear and disruption he caused. He may get a prison sentence long enough for him to attone for his act. There may be many ways he can be punished, but he himself would be the cause of any punishment given.

Also I should add that the punishment is only there to rehabilitate the person. Once the person attones for his actions the punishment ceases also, and the person benifits. For some souls their crimes are so heinous and therefore dangerous to people that they are sent to a hell for their rehabilitation. Once their souls are purified they again begin their ascent. Eternal damnation is for souls who have no intention of being rahabilitated, not eternal as in spiritual.

If we don't receive all reward in this life, the karmic equilibrum is not set,
so we have to come back to receive rewards??

Yes, that is my understanding.

Or is the reward not being born again? (makes more sense)

The reward would be exactly what you deserve. Not being born again means you have regained you original spiritual body and associate with God in His (Spiritual) Kingdom. That would mean your karmic debt has totally been wiped out.

If you're not ignorant, there is always intervention?

God is always present, ignorance blocks that. If you locked yourself in a dark room with no vent for light to come through, would it mean that the sunshine is not present?

If the devil can manipulate matter, than he could create such beasts of fairy tales, no?

He can give the illusion that one has been created, but God is the real creator.

You mean unless it has some specific purpose?

God is a sentient being, therefore if He likes he is capable of choosing for someone to slip off a cliff. Doesn’t mean He will necessarily, but he can. If He did choose for someone to slip of a cliff, that person, regardless of his condition, his soul would not be reborn in this material, he would be liberated.

Are you referring to the fact that this is what most people do?
So that in a way it is what the devil wants us to do, focusing on material life?

The former.

If so, then what is safe? What is there to do? How to fill a day?

The first class man spends his whole life serving God, the low class man spends his life serving his senses. And all the grey areas in between.

Jezus wasn't defended by God if I remember correctly. He did it all by himself.
(just trying to get more information.

4:9 And he said to him, "I will give you all these things if you fall down and worship me."

4:10 Then Jesus said to him, "Go away, Satan! For it is written: 'You are to worship the Lord your God and serve only him.

4:3 The tempter came and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become bread."

4:4 But he answered,4 "It is written, 'Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.'

This may not at a first glance seem like God is protecting His devotee, but what is apparent is Jesus’ lack of fear and yeilding to temptation based on his faith, love and loyalty to his Father. How, by quoting the scripture of his Father. God is Absolute, therefore His words and name is non different to His Self. All bona-fide religions not only have a scripture but a name for God, and they are instructed to chant His name, this is how we can invoke Him.

What is real? What are the illusions?

It is said that “real” is what lasts eternally and “illusion” is that which is temporary.
Example; the soul is real, the body is illusion. That is not to say that the body is not real, it most certainly is.
Would you think someone was foolish if they spent loads of their hard earnt cash on renovating a property they were only renting?

But that still doesn't mean that what you hear is right.

That is why we have human intelligence so we can discriminate between truth and false.

Sometimes the farmer is a poor African chap who needs to kill his only cow to feed his starving family. There is no other way to survive.

If life depended on it, that is a different matter, it is understandable, but killing cows because little Johnny Mardypants wants a burger now, is unacceptable in a so-called civilized world. And killing them in such a barbaric way and not caring for their spiritual well-being isn’t good for anybody, including the eaters.

Many animals are killed in the bible, even for God's pleasure. (sacrifice)

Under strict conditions, and the soul of the animal progresses from animal to human in next life.

How? Can you give a few examples? How can a lawyer be led to God doing his job?

By doing his duty to the best of his ability, by meditating on God, by offering some of his wages to the service of God, so many ways. If he has to lie because his job demands it, then what can he do? This is how this world is organised at present and he has to make a living, also the current world situation demands that one has a lawyer to defend themself in a court of law.

Love

Jan Ardena.

 

[A4Ever]

There are innumerable better worlds, we just happen to be in this one.

I already knew that, I shouldn't have asked.

What I'm going to do is merge our posts so that I can read it as a text with questions and answers following each other.

That way you won't have to answer the same questions over and over again.

How can you trick a wise man.

That's true. If you consider the possibility that you were an African sjaman just yesterday, no tricking is possible.

Firstly, the idea of keeping cats and dogs as pets (family members), keeping them in the house, sleeping on/in the bed in and out of the kitchen, is not something a serious devotee of God would do.

Why? We have a ferret. We got him from an asylum. We want to give him a good life, and we do everything we can to make it that way.

A ferret would die when put in nature. It is a domestic variant of the bunzing.

I live in Belgium, it is too cold to put him outside. Besides, I would still like to pick him up and cuddle him, so we can have no fleas.

So are we acting wrong in the eyes of God?

Second question: would the intention of wanting to give a ferret a good life make for a karmic equilibrum when having to kill its fleas?

[mentality n 1: a habitual or characteristic mental attitude that determines

Yes... but I meant what this means:

The mentality that allows you to eat cows will be of the same quality in all you do.

You mean that when you can bring yourself to eat cows, this is just a symptom of a mentality that will cause you to do wrong in other areas as well?

what happens in the wild when animals have fleas?

Then the animal would have a very annoying problem. I don't know if fleas go away after a while.

But think about coakroach infested houses, grashopper swarms eating crops,... should we just let that be?

What have you done these past 6 months?

I went to classes, studied for the exams, spent my free time with my girlfriend and friends, in july I played way too much Morrowind, in august I spent way too much time on sciforums.

I ate and slept.

If you meant something else, just ask.

He may be hanged, gassed or electrocuted the fear of which may be equal to the fear and disruption he caused.

I am against capital punishment. Just wanted to say that. I understand the answer.

But we couldn't have him killed, that would cause major karmic debt.

Eternal damnation is for souls who have no intention of being rahabilitated, not eternal as in spiritual.

What is hell?

I thought it did not exist.

God is always present

In what way? Does he speak to us? Is he present in the form of a tree, a bird, a kind word?

Is there constant guiding? Is he our counscious?

He can give the illusion that one has been created

Could that illusion be as strong as the illusion of our body? In the sense that it is real, but not eternal?

(this is clearly not a religious question, but it is interesting to see such things from a religious point of view.)

The first class man spends his whole life serving God

How would he do that? Can he go see Man in Black II? Can he spend too much time on sciforums ))

What I mean: there is this life out there, society. Serving God would be easy in a monastary, where everything points to God.

Outside my door, nothing points to God. How are you supposed to transcend that??

God is Absolute, therefore His words and name is non different to His Self

That's an inspiring thought, thanks.

All bona-fide religions not only have a scripture but a name for God, and they are instructed to chant His name, this is how we can invoke Him.

But God is already always there. Why chant?

What do you mean exactly by invoke?

Would you think someone was foolish if they spent loads of their hard earnt cash on renovating a property they were only renting?

Yes. So you mean: do not care to much for material things.

That is why we have human intelligence so we can discriminate between truth and false.

Human intellect fails, often and bigtime. Thousands of psychological tests show that.

but killing cows because little Johnny Mardypants wants a burger now, is unacceptable in a so-called civilized world.

I never heard that name, it is funny.

AND I do get the point.

And killing them in such a barbaric way and not caring for their spiritual well-being isn’t good for anybody, including the eaters.

Is their a way of killing them, caring for their spiritual well being? I suppose not, but somehow it seemed implied.

If he has to lie because his job demands it, then what can he do?

I will possibly be able to tell you in a few years...

note: Thank you for taking the time to answer all my sometimes trivial questions.

edit:

But the act of homosexuality is as evil/transgressitory as the act of (hetrasexual) adultery or peodophillia.

Why?

 

[Adam]

Becoming Aware...

1) Have faith only in your own senses and reason.

2) Accept an objective reality. The world does not care about you.

3) Accept that everyone is fallible.

4) Take a hint from physics, try to achieve the lowest energy state. In other words, chill.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Originally posted by A4Ever
Why? We have a ferret. We got him from an asylum. We want to give him a good life, and we do everything we can to make it that way.

A ferret would die when put in nature. It is a domestic variant of the bunzing.

I live in Belgium, it is too cold to put him outside. Besides, I would still like to pick him up and cuddle him, so we can have no fleas.

So basically, the pet (or ancestors) has been taken from his homeland and brought here to work, and now has difficulty surviving in its present enviroment. Doesn’t that sound familiar to you?

There are obviously issues which lead to such relationships, and whatever is in your heart, is the reality of the situation. The caring of animals is very important in spiritual life, it shows that you view all creatures with equanimity.

A wise person would never colonise living entities in such a way as dull-minded, selfish people have colonised people and animals and still doing so. He would learn to live in harmony with rats and snakes, realising they too are sons of God, instead of bringing over species from another part of the world to be rid of them.
He would keep domestic animals to serve in a role which is conducive to their nature, he would not become attached.
Every living being is most happiest in their own environment.

So are we acting wrong in the eyes of God?

“Wrong” in this case means we are fooling ourselves, so that should read, “we are fooling ourselves in the eyes of God.”
This world is place in which we can come to the realisation that “I am not this body, I am a spirit-soul an eternal part and parcel of God” or we can act foolishly and waste our lives, the choice is ours.

Second question: would the intention of wanting to give a ferret a good life make for a karmic equilibrum when having to kill its fleas?

Lets try and work it out.

Is wanting to give pleasure and stability to someone less fortunate, a good thing or a bad thing?

Is your intention in anyway selfish?

Do you get pleasure from giving cuddles, or do you cuddle Mr. Ferret because he needs it and benefits by it?

If the latter, how do you know?

Does he get cuddles in the wild?

What do you know about ferrets, and do you try and make his life as ferret-like as possible?

Are you emotionally attached to Mr. Ferret?

Would you, if you could open a sanctuary for all stray animals, devote your life to their well-being?

If not, why not?

These few questions are only for the purpose of of our conversation, but there are so many issues involved with karma, that it is not as simple as the idea seems, it is very complex, but when answering them please try and be totally honest with yourself, and you will begin to understand yourself more deeply.

You mean that when you can bring yourself to eat cows, this is just a symptom of a mentality that will cause you to do wrong in other areas as well?

If we eat cows for our pleasure, then it means we do not realise the importance of 1) cows, 2) the cows life, 3) the spiritual implications etc. It means we lack a whole section of understand and we therefore do everything with this lack of understanding.

If from the moment we are born we are taught that 1+1=3, then our whole calculation system would be wrong, throughout our life, until somebody shows us the correct way.

Then the animal would have a very annoying problem. I don't know if fleas go away after a while.

They either go away, or the animal tolerates or kill them, that is natures way. Either way the animal would go about his business until he died. Material nature is very harsh and does not discriminate, if a cute little baby puts his hand in the fire, nature isn’t going to say “Ah what a little cutie, I will not burn him,” she will burn him without delay.

But think about coakroach infested houses, grashopper swarms eating crops,... should we just let that be?

Under such circumstances you may have to kill, because your life and health are at stake, but you still have to accept the reactions because that is natures law. Plants and trees are also regarded as living entities, so we must at some point kill.
Apart from that, we are regular killing machines, think about all the life we kill just walking ten yards, when having a bath, when scratching, when eating, when sleeping, when having sex, driving. Everything is accounted for, no stone is left unturned.

Do you know why yogis sit absolutely still for years? Their aim is cease all action so that they don’t receive any karmic reactions, therefore achieve liberation from the material world. Or some just want to go to one of the heavenly planets where they can seriously gratify their senses.

I understand you are a practising lawyer. If someone killed a person out of self defence, would his sentence be the same as someone who killed for pleasure?

I went to classes, studied for the exams, spent my free time with my girlfriend and friends, in july I played way too much Morrowind, in august I spent way too much time on sciforums.

I ate and slept

You went to class, to learn I persume?
Study for exams, so you can become qualified, get a well paid job, buy nice house with nice things in, eat in nice resteraunts, get married, have nice sexual relationship with beautiful wife, maybe raise a family.

Spent time with girlfriend, hmmm……she makes me feel so good. And I enjoy making her feel so good, hmmm…….pleasurable.

Played a lot of games, with other people, must win, and when I win I will defend my status.

I will come on sci-forums, see if there are any good discussions going on, may even enter into a debate and if I think my point is right, I will defend it.

My point is, what is the point of your activities, it may seem that you had a hectic 6 months, but really you only want to achieve 3or 4 things, therefore your energy is directed thus.
All living beings basically strive for these points in their own mentality.
Same few results, loads of different combinations.

But we couldn't have him killed, that would cause major karmic debt.

Not if the judgement was just. The judge is authorised by the state to judge people fairly and give out the right punishment for the crime. It is not unreasonable that a murderer should lose his life for taking other lives.
But I agree with you that in this day and age capital punishment cannot be trusted and therefore could cause serious karmic debt, not only for his executioners but for anybody who supported the act.

What is hell?

I would say it is a condition, a place of complete ignorance where one comes face to face at every moment with ones own fear.
In vedic literature it gives information of different types of hells for different types of mentality.
The universe is divided into 14 planetary systems, these systems are divided into 3 sections, namely upper (heavenly), middle (earthly) and lower (hellish), otherwise known as the 3 worlds.
The soul, according to its activities transmigrates between the 3 worlds.

In what way? Does he speak to us? Is he present in the form of a tree, a bird, a kind word?

He speaks directly to His pure devotees, Jesus, Mohammad (p.b.u.h), etc… He speaks through his devotees, through the scripture, to the yogi who meditates on His supersoul feature in the heart. He speaks through music through art, through the ability of learned and great people. He speaks through His wonderful creation, but is often mistaken as nature. How long as the sun been doing his thing, the precision of the movement of the sun is mind numbing, a slight deviation one way the earth is covered in ice, the other way it is burned to a cinder. Who is controlling that.


Is there constant guiding? Is he our counscious?

No, we are our conscious (conscience), but according vedic literature He is constantly in our hearts throughout our whole existence and will guide us if necassery.

In the Bhagavad Gita, He remained friends with Arjuna until Arjuna became so overwhelmed and perplexed he surrendered himself to Krishna and asked Krishna to guide him. Up until that point Krishna acted perfectly as a friend to Arjuna.
In the same way He accompanies us in our heart as friend until we ask for His help, then he directs us. In one sense He is our only friend as he knows us very intimately and never leaves our side, even if we go to hell.

Could that illusion be as strong as the illusion of our body? In the sense that it is real, but not eternal?

Have you seen some of these wonderful magicians? Does their illusions not look real? Can you find a fault with them?
Yet we know they are tricks, think how a devil could trick.

How would he do that?

By altering your perception, just like a good magician, but thousands of times more powerful. It is said that we are, at a molecular level, vibrating at different frequencies, that we are not actually solid. If that is the case, we can be manipulated through sound and probably to the point of reconfiguration, this subject is out of my depth but I aim to learn more. Different frequencies mean different configurations. If your frequency changes, your perception changes. A good example is music, if you are deeply into rap music, you begin to wear rap clothes, talk in a rap way, have sex, eat, fight, reason etc..in short your whole perception changes from what it was before.
In the same way, when we hear about God from a self-realised soul, when we chant and sing the holy name of God, when we eat prashadam (food which has been offered to God) our vibration changes and we become more spiritualized.

Can he go see Man in Black II? ))

Yes.

Went to watch that movie yesterday, thoroughly enjoyed it. I wish they would come out with sequels everymonth, same with Star Wars.

Can he spend too much time on sciforums ))

Yes

What I mean: there is this life out there, society. Serving God would be easy in a monastary, where everything points to God.

Why would you have to be in a monestary to serve God? Besides look at the Catholic church (monastary), some of those so-called priests really have the wrong idea, don't they? But if you can find a place where God is actually being worshiped, then yes i guess it would be alot easier.

When you become a lawyer, will you only serve the law society in a courtroom or will you be conscious of the law for the rest of your life?

But God is already always there. Why chant?

So we can remember Him always. Our main problem is our memory, it is very short.

What do you mean exactly by invoke?

He is an Absolute Being, He is fully omnipotent, that means every part of Himself has the same potency of every part of Himself. That means He can eat with his toes, mind, hair or any part of Himself. He can see with his eyelash, he can impregnate by a mere glance. So if you call His name, he is also present within the sound.

Yes. So you mean: do not care to much for material things.

Only what is necessary, I suppose.

Is their a way of killing them, caring for their spiritual well being? I suppose not, but somehow it seemed implied.

Yes, in one of the earlier books of the old testament, Dueteronomy (I think) God explains to moses how to kill certain animals.
In Islam also, in fact in all religions there are strict guidelines, rules and regulations regarding the slaughter of animals. As I said before the benefit is for the animal.

But the act of homosexuality is as evil/transgressitory as the act of (hetrasexual) adultery or peodophillia.

Why?

I’ll try and get back to you on that.

note: Thank you for taking the time to answer all my sometimes trivial questions.

No problem, i really like talking about God, the more i talk or listen about Him, the more i realise His greatness, so thank you for allowing me this great pleasure.

Love

Jan Ardena.

 

[A4Ever]

So basically, the pet (or ancestors) has been taken from his homeland and brought here to work

I think the Romans started to keep it as a hunter and companion. So yes, you are right.

There are obviously issues which lead to such relationships, and whatever is in your heart, is the reality of the situation.

Then I think we're ok in that department.

I suppose that this is also the salvation of all those farmers: many of them really care for the animals, even when killing them, making it quick and painless.

This world is place in which we can come to the realisation that “I am not this body, I am a spirit-soul an eternal part and parcel of God” or we can act foolishly and waste our lives, the choice is ours.

But once we realise that, what is there to do? I think you would answer serving God. Which could mean (when taking one book) following in the footsteps of Christ. Then we are freed from the cycle of birth and death.

Am I getting good at answering my own questions or what?

But there are things which are hard to qualify on the karmic scale. You said you went to see MIIB. How did that help you in realising that you are not this body, that you are a spirit-soul, an eternal part and parcel of God?

You know I'm not fundamentalistic, I just want to know how everyday life fits in the theological background. (so it would be apreciated if you expanded beyond that one movie )

To take it one step further: maybe going to that movie gave you some karmic debt. You paid money to a big corporation. God knows what it does with the money.

Making movies like that costs enourmous amounts of money, which could be better spent. Shouldn't we have to boycot absurdities like that? (just provocing answers. --- You can think that way about A LOT of things, hence all those questions in the same direction.)

Is wanting to give pleasure and stability to someone less fortunate, a good thing or a bad thing?

It's a good thing. (why? cause that's what's in my heart and what is in there is the reality of the situation?)

Is your intention in anyway selfish?

Yes. I like the particular species. I would not care for a black widow spider to the same extent. (although if the situation was there, I would take care of it if that was possible without getting bitten ->feed it, ...)

Do you get pleasure from giving cuddles, or do you cuddle Mr. Ferret because he needs it and benefits by it?

Mr Ferret?

Of course I get pleasure from it, cause he reacts in a nice way. I think it is safe to say that ferrets need that form of attention. Ferrets cuddle each other, they clean each other etc... they are very social. If they don't get that kind of attention, they get really sad, no kidding.

So yes, he benefits from it.

He also needs to play, and in the fact that he returns the playing, it shows he likes it. Ferrets play with each other.

What do you know about ferrets, and do you try and make his life as ferret-like as possible?

We read as much as we could before getting him. We mind every possible detail: no straw (the nose!), no milk (they die), things to crawl away in (my girlfriend made a sleeping sack and a cloth that hangs in the cage for him to lie in), fresh water, high quality food (needs more proteins than cats do)...

Convinced yet?

Are you emotionally attached to Mr. Ferret?

Yes, although I realise I will have to let go in 5 to 12 years.

Would you, if you could open a sanctuary for all stray animals, devote your life to their well-being?

Of course if we aimed all our energy in that direction, we could do that, but it is not what we have chosen to do.

What should I derive from these answers? I think I've been fairly honest. Please tell me what you think.

If from the moment we are born we are taught that 1+1=3, then our whole calculation system would be wrong, throughout our life, until somebody shows us the correct way.

I understand.

Everything is accounted for, no stone is left unturned.

There will be minor karmic debt because of the circumstances?

If we eat cows for our pleasure,

What if we eat cow to not stir up social situations?

Or some just want to go to one of the heavenly planets where they can seriously gratify their senses.

Is this an aspect of the spiritual body? Gratifying senses to reality, as opposed to illusions?

 

[A4Ever]

I understand you are a practising lawyer. If someone killed a person out of self defence, would his sentence be the same as someone who killed for pleasure?

I am still studying to become something that is the equivalent of master in law (which does not mean I can be considered a bachelor, after all, this is Belgium )

After that, I may become a lawyer. I think it is the best thing I can do.

The sentences would differ. So that answers the coakroach type questions.

You went to class, to learn I persume?

Yes.

So basically, the pet (or ancestors) has been taken from his homeland and brought here to work

I think the Romans started to keep it as a hunter and companion. So yes, you are right.

There are obviously issues which lead to such relationships, and whatever is in your heart, is the reality of the situation.

Then I think we're ok in that department.

I suppose that this is also the salvation of all those farmers: many of them really care for the animals, even when killing them, making it quick and painless.

This world is place in which we can come to the realisation that “I am not this body, I am a spirit-soul an eternal part and parcel of God” or we can act foolishly and waste our lives, the choice is ours.

But once we realise that, what is there to do? I think you would answer serving God. Which could mean (when taking one book) following in the footsteps of Christ. Then we are freed from the cycle of birth and death.

Am I getting good at answering my own questions or what?

But there are things which are hard to qualify on the karmic scale. You said you went to see MIIB. How did that help you in realising that you are not this body, that you are a spirit-soul, an eternal part and parcel of God?

You know I'm not fundamentalistic, I just want to know how everyday life fits in the theological background. (so it would be apreciated if you expanded beyond that one movie )

To take it one step further: maybe going to that movie gave you some karmic debt. You paid money to a big corporation. God knows what it does with the money.

Making movies like that costs enourmous amounts of money, which could be better spent. Shouldn't we have to boycot absurdities like that? (just provocing answers. --- You can think that way about A LOT of things, hence all those questions in the same direction.)

Is wanting to give pleasure and stability to someone less fortunate, a good thing or a bad thing?

It's a good thing. (why? cause that's what's in my heart and what is in there is the reality of the situation?)

Is your intention in anyway selfish?

Yes. I like the particular species. I would not care for a black widow spider to the same extent. (although if the situation was there, I would take care of it if that was possible without getting bitten ->feed it, ...)

Do you get pleasure from giving cuddles, or do you cuddle Mr. Ferret because he needs it and benefits by it?

Mr Ferret?

Of course I get pleasure from it, cause he reacts in a nice way. I think it is safe to say that ferrets need that form of attention. Ferrets cuddle each other, they clean each other etc... they are very social. If they don't get that kind of attention, they get really sad, no kidding.

So yes, he benefits from it.

He also needs to play, and in the fact that he returns the playing, it shows he likes it. Ferrets play with each other.

What do you know about ferrets, and do you try and make his life as ferret-like as possible?

We read as much as we could before getting him. We mind every possible detail: no straw (the nose!), no milk (they die), things to crawl away in (my girlfriend made a sleeping sack and a cloth that hangs in the cage for him to lie in), fresh water, high quality food (needs more proteins than cats do)...

Convinced yet?

Are you emotionally attached to Mr. Ferret?

Yes, although I realise I will have to let go in 5 to 12 years.

Would you, if you could open a sanctuary for all stray animals, devote your life to their well-being?

Of course if we aimed all our energy in that direction, we could do that, but it is not what we have chosen to do.

What should I derive from these answers? I think I've been fairly honest. Please tell me what you think.

If from the moment we are born we are taught that 1+1=3, then our whole calculation system would be wrong, throughout our life, until somebody shows us the correct way.

I understand.

 

[A4Ever]

Everything is accounted for, no stone is left unturned.

There will be minor karmic debt because of the circumstances?

If we eat cows for our pleasure,

What if we eat cow to not stir up social situations?

Or some just want to go to one of the heavenly planets where they can seriously gratify their senses.

Is this an aspect of the spiritual body? Gratifying senses to reality, as opposed to illusions?

I understand you are a practising lawyer. If someone killed a person out of self defence, would his sentence be the same as someone who killed for pleasure?

I am still studying to become something that is the equivalent of master in law (which does not mean I can be considered a bachelor, after all, this is Belgium )

After that, I may become a lawyer. I think it is the best thing I can do.

The sentences would differ. So that answers the coakroach type questions.

You went to class, to learn I persume?

Yes.

To be very honest: sometimes to not feel guilty.

Played a lot of games, with other people, must win, and when I win I will defend my status.

Well, it is a solitary game, but in a way you are right. I talked about it a lot with someone who finished it, we compared,...

I try to ditch games, they take too much time and serve absolutely no purpose than to numb my mind.

The wasted potential.

All living beings basically strive for these points in their own mentality.

Pleasure, status and...?

But even with two examples I get the point. And I know all this. But what do you do to fill your days?

What a mentality does the wise man have? He plays no power games? Does he just sit there smiling, letting everything pass? While people insult him? While others take the positions he has a right to?

Don't you think it is possible to have a relationship with a woman without just seeking your own pleasure? I certainly aim for that.

may even enter into a debate and if I think my point is right, I will defend it.

Isn't that a good thing? A poster with no opinion can't contribute much.

(look for posts like this: PIKA! pika? chu! )

The soul, according to its activities transmigrates between the 3 worlds.

Even at the snap of a finger right?

Is this transmigration between two lives OR (what I think) is it depending on one self?

Take the yogi: he achieves heavenly pleasure without dieing. Take the fearful person: he creates his own hell.

He speaks through music through art, through the ability of learned and great people.

How do you know which music? I can show you lyrics of which I'm pretty sure that God did not inspire them.

Also, so many liars and cheats among the 'wise' men.

No, we are our conscious (conscience), but according vedic literature He is constantly in our hearts throughout our whole existence and will guide us if necassery.

And to think I know that word...

I understand the idea.

Besides look at the Catholic church (monastary), some of those so-called priests really have the wrong idea, don't they?

Yeah. How many priests would consider reading Bhagavad Gita? Come on! A BLUE God?? (I don't yet know if he is described in there as blue, but in pictures he often is.)

But this is all changing. I think there are many people who take a broader perspective.

I’ll try and get back to you on that.

That would be interesting.

i really like talking about God, the more i talk or listen about Him, the more i realise His greatness

It is safe to say you are a self realised person, no? (don't have to answer that). I don't think you spend hours searching for the right verses to answer my questions. You grasp general ideas and derive from that?

Is there still a difference with enlightment?

Thanks!


****EDIT****: I couldn't post this in one time, so I had to cut in in 3 pieces.

****EDIT #2****: maybe I broke the longest post record *LOL*

 

[Jan Ardena]

Originally posted by A4Ever
But once we realise that, what is there to do? I think you would answer serving God.

Do you love your girlfriend, do you serve her lovingly??
If yes, now that you do……..what then?
Has everything come to a standstill?
Are you bored now?
Do you enjoy each day knowing that you love this person and she loves you?
Do you miss her when she is away too long?
Do you think about her when she is away?
Does things remind you of her, when she is away?
Do you move on to another girl because you have gone as far as you could with the current one?

When we begin to understand God, it is not dogmatic, a system of rules and regulations (these we need to become more purified), you become affectionate for Him, you form a relationship. This is why we read about His pastimes, why we chant His name. He reciprocates, but not with money, women, houses, cars etc...but (although He has been known to give wealth ) with trancendental knowledge of Him. He is the goal of life, when you hear a song which tells of an everlasting love between a man and woman, sub-consciously the singer is singing about God.
Well i think so anywayz.

Am I getting good at answering my own questions or what?

I would say so, but I’m not the one to ask, you are.

You said you went to see MIIB. How did that help you in realising that you are not this body, that you are a spirit-soul, an eternal part and parcel of God?

I didn’t go for that purpose, I went to gratify my senses. I enjoy those types of films, spiritually I did myself no favours. But I do enjoy the concepts of such films, they make me think about God and how great He is. Plus i am a bit of an amatuer conspiracy theorist.

Do you seriously watch kids television, where they teach the alphabet and sums, and they put it all to some rinkydink music?
I’ll bet you don’t, and I’m sure I know why, because it is too childish, yes? There is nothing to learn? You know that stuff already? The music is silly? Big purple dinosaurs don’t sing? Its just an illusion to get the children to take things on board?

Well, to a self realised person, that is what he sees and hears when he goes to the cinema, unless it is a film depicting his Lord. And what are the chances of that?

You know I'm not fundamentalistic, I just want to know how everyday life fits in the theological background. (so it would be apreciated if you expanded beyond that one movie )

Why don’t you try it, that’s the only way you will truly find out. You don’t have to be a fundamentalist, just try and learn more about God, even from a distance, and see for yourself.

To take it one step further: maybe going to that movie gave you some karmic debt. You paid money to a big corporation. God knows what it does with the money.

Agreed.
Unfortunately, we cannot move without funding such organisations. This is why the method of religion changes over time (becomes simpler). As the world technologically progresses, we are evermore dragged into performing inauspicious acts (known or not) in order to satiate our senses.
Read more about lust.
In this way it becomes near impossible to live an austere life. God, being very kind makes religion suitable for this particular age. The religion for this age is to chant the holy names of God, whereas in the past it was much more difficult to gain salvation, but the life situation was not as complex and spiritless as it is now.

Making movies like that costs enourmous amounts of money, which could be better spent. Shouldn't we have to boycot absurdities like that? (just provocing answers.

That is a personal thing, the way it is applied in some Christian denominations, it is called dogma. The intention is good, but it doesn’t actually benefit some even most of the people, because they feel they are missing out on something. The only way, I think to stop spending money on these illusions is through intelligence, coming to the conclusion for yourself, that way there is no hankering.

Convinced yet?

Yes.

Yes, although I realise I will have to let go in 5 to 12 years.

Why? Is that is life expectancy.

What should I derive from these answers? I think I've been fairly honest. Please tell me what you think.

What good is my opinion regarding what is in your heart, here is a description of a perfect person, from a perfect person, put your description against this, then see how you fair.

Chapter 16, Verse 1-3.
The Blessed Lord said: Fearlessness, purification of one's existence, cultivation of spiritual knowledge, charity, self-control, performance of sacrifice, study of the Vedas, austerity and simplicity; nonviolence, truthfulness, freedom from anger; renunciation, tranquility, aversion to faultfinding, compassion and freedom from covetousness; gentleness, modesty and steady determination; vigor, forgiveness, fortitude, cleanliness, freedom from envy and the passion for honor--these transcendental qualities, O son of Bharata, belong to godly men endowed with divine nature.

Love

Jan Ardena.

P.S. How'd ya do?

 

[A4Ever]

Has everything come to a standstill?

No.

I understand what you mean.

He is the goal of life, when you hear a song which tells of an everlasting love between a man and woman, sub-consciously the singer is singing about God.

I will try to listen to them in that way. Do you think all lyrics can be brought back to God?

By the way, one of your sentences is pretty similar to some great lyrics:

you wrote:

“I am not this body, I am a spirit-soul an eternal part and parcel of God”

Tool wrote:

This body holding me, reminding me that I am not alone in
This body makes me feel eternal. All this pain is an illusion.

I have a feeling I already told you this...

But I do enjoy the concepts of such films, they make me think about God and how great He is.

How exactly?

Plus i am a bit of an amatuer conspiracy theorist.

http://www.cowan70.freeserve.co.uk/index/index_conspiracy.htm

Have a blast!

I’ll bet you don’t, and I’m sure I know why, because it is too childish, yes?

I really like stuff like Sesame Street.

But I am not trying to debunk your point, cause I get it.

unless it is a film depicting his Lord. And what are the chances of that?

There are a lot of those. They should put them on a dvd set: God volumes I to...

I really enjoy movies about the life of Jesus. It makes his life feel more real. I wasn't raised in any religion. I thought the Bible was written in a strange way, it didn't seem like Jesus was a real man. But then I saw a movie which showed his human side. "God, if it is your will, let this pass."

just try and learn more about God, even from a distance, and see for yourself.

It's time to move on to what's beyond the difficult names. Only Arjuna and Krishna were doable.

Why? Is that is life expectancy.

Yes. I've read seven years, I've read fifteen. Let us hope for the fifteen.

What good is my opinion regarding what is in your heart, here is a description of a perfect person, from a perfect person, put your description against this, then see how you fair.

I know.

P.S. How'd ya do?

At the exams? I passed.

So how can we discuss Bhagavad Gita in an interesting way?

Thanks!

 

[Jan Ardena]

Originally posted by A4Ever
I will try to listen to them in that way. Do you think all lyrics can be brought back to God?

I think so, but I think it also depends on whoever is listening, or in other words, it is relative.

By the way, one of your sentences is pretty similar to some great lyrics:

you wrote:

“I am not this body, I am a spirit-soul an eternal part and parcel of God”

Tool wrote:

This body holding me, reminding me that I am not alone in
This body makes me feel eternal. All this pain is an illusion.

Good lyrics. Tool is obviously aware of some reality. How do you think he came to these conclusions?

I have a feeling I already told you this...

Nope, we’ve talked about exchanging lyrics we like, and try to understand them from a deeper percpective. My next post will be a lyric.

How exactly?

Have you read the Mahabharata? All these kind of films, MIIB, Starwars, The Matrix, are loosely based on it, but they do not come up to scratch, although they are very good.
I heard that Steven Spielberg may direct the Mahabhata in the future, I hope he does.

http://www.cowan70.freeserve.co.uk/index/index_conspiracy.htm

Thanks, I’ve not come across this site before.

I really enjoy movies about the life of Jesus.

But they don’t make many of them, compared with films with a Luciferic consciousness.

It's time to move on to what's beyond the difficult names.
Only Arjuna and Krishna were doable.

I know, they can get wrapped round your tongue can’t they. Eventually it becomes a lot easier, in fact the language (sanskrit) begins to sound beautiful, but then I am a bit bias.

At the exams? I passed.

No, I meant with your self assessment.
Congratulations on your exam results.

So how can we discuss Bhagavad Gita in an interesting way?

As long as we talk about BG, it is in an interesting way. The more you get into it, the more you will realise your own self, that is guaranteed.

Love

Jan Ardena.

 

[A4Ever]

How do you think he came to these conclusions?

((Tool is the name of a band.))

I think they tried drugs like lsd and kethamine. They help you realise the multiple universes or something.

They obviously read a lot of stuff. They use a lot of eastern symbols and concepts, like the shakras. There is also obvious interest for astronomy and literature.

The answer: self realisation.

My next post will be a lyric.

Cool! I'm curious what you listen to.

Have you read the Mahabharata?

No, I'll look for some information on the net.

A friend of mine told me that star wars was based on the book the hero with the thousand faces.

Of course there are many influences.

But they don’t make many of them, compared with films with a Luciferic consciousness.

I know, but sometimes you have to look very good. Take Devil's advocate. Everybody thinks Pacino is so cool as the devil, and he is, but he loses. There is always free will: that was a great message.

in fact the language (sanskrit) begins to sound beautiful, but then I am a bit bias.

Sanskrit is a bit like singing. Or maybe they are singing because it is the Gita.

No, I meant with your self assessment.

Do you mean when I compare myself to the perfect person in the case of the ferret?

Congratulations on your exam results.

Thanks!

As long as we talk about BG, it is in an interesting way.

OK, I'll try to read some verses.

 

[Jan Ardena]

A4Ever........

Cool! I'm curious what you listen to.

I am a musician, I play most instruments, but my main one is the kit drums. I love all kinds of music, from indigenous Aussie music, to rap, to classical, to rock, to jazz, to the blues, to film scores, to reggea, to ragga, to soca, to marengi, to soul both old and new, to gospel, to music that awakens the soul, almost all kinds. When I don’t like a piece, it is because I cannot feel any expression, or the expression is false, contrived or overdone. Or the expression is excellent, but the content is too distatefull for my liking. So you may well be surprised, beware.

A friend of mine told me that star wars was based on the book the hero with the thousand faces.

Of course there are many influences.

Of course your friend may be right, but the origin of interplanetary war between the good (light) and bad (dark),surely has to lay with the Mahabharata.

Everybody thinks Pacino is so cool as the devil, and he is, but he loses. There is always free will: that was a great message.

I know what you’re saying, but did you see the look on the devils face, after he had been defeated, he didn’t look too pissed to me, you kinda got the feeling, he’s thinking “you won this time, but I will get you” and breaks out in Vincent Price, Hammer House of horror, blood curdling, fiendish laugh.

You said “he loses,” that would imply that his son had won. My personal philosophy on that is there are no winners in this game of life, just varying degrees of losers, you win when the game ends.

Sanskrit is a bit like singing. Or maybe they are singing because it is the Gita.

You got that right!!!

Bhagavad Gita = Song of God.

Do you mean when I compare myself to the perfect person in the case of the ferret?

Yes, either in the case of the ferret, or just you in general.

The standard is very high don’t you think, this was the standard of Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

 

[A4Ever]

When I don’t like a piece, it is because I cannot feel any expression, or the expression is false, contrived or overdone.

That's what I call: "the music must be real." So I listen to all kinds of genres, as long as the person bringing it is not faking it.

I do add non sensical noise to that, for pure entertainment.

Or the expression is excellent, but the content is too distatefull for my liking.

For example: Wumpscut. Excellent music (if you like that stuff of course) but dead embryo's are not my thing.

there are no winners in this game of life, just varying degrees of losers, you win when the game ends.

I was thinking something like that the other day: should we celebrate life as a precious gift, or focus on the fact that it is an illusion and hate it?

Celebrate: it is a gift, it is what we wanted,...

Hate: it is not real, people die, we can accumulate karmic debt,...

Curious about the lyric!

 

[Jan Ardena]

For example: Wumpscut. Excellent music (if you like that stuff of course) but dead embryo's are not my thing.

I’ve never heard of this band, please tell me more.

Celebrate: it is a gift, it is what we wanted,...

Our problems begin with “what we want” it is not always in our best interest.
We are forced to act, there is never a moment when we are inactive. Our actions, I believe, are basically of two kinds, lamenting or hankering, if we don’t get what we hanker for then we lament, this builds and builds until we leave the body, and then, according to some philosophies, we carry on where we left off in another body, suitable to our desires. So in essence, life is a gift, no matter which way we look at it, to understand it the right way i.e. God consciousness, it is the greatest gift. But to understand it in a selfish way, it can be a bit of a bugger.

Hate: it is not real, people die, we can accumulate karmic debt,...

I believe life is very real, what is not real, are the things we lament and hanker for.
It is because of this illusion we accumulate karmic debt.
Nature isn’t designed to be a comfortable ride, things are made hard for a purpose.

Hate is a negative and limiting emotion, it serves about as much purpose as trying to type a novel in complete darkness (hate being the darkness). You would make mistakes typing that novel, and you would make serious life errors acting hatefully.

I think the first lesson we have to learn, is to love “unconditionally.”

See if you can work this out. (I bet its real easy for you)

Hard=easy and easy=hard.

Curious about the lyric!

In due time, just mustering up the vibes.

CHeck pm!

Love

Jan Ardena.

 

[Empty Dragon]

Is Hate just living in those destructive forces?

Is Hate a living force?

And If Hate is force does that not mean one could use its energy to nourrish him self?

 

[Empty Dragon]

p.s

In a sense use hatred to fuel a darker awakening?

 

[Jan Ardena]

Is Hate just living in those destructive forces?

In what destructive forces?

Is Hate a living force?

The living force is the person.
If a person becomes consumed by ignorance, then the ignorance will appear as a living force, a bit like when someone wears a pair of trousers, the trousers acts like the legs.

And If Hate is force does that not mean one could use its energy to nourrish him self?

I think when in such a state, that we are compelled to hate, then we have already become nourished

In a sense use hatred to fuel a darker awakening?

Such as?

Love

Jan Ardena.

 

[Empty Dragon]

In what destructive forces?

Is it natural in the universe to have have destruction? It is all around us just as creation. Could this be a source of energy?

The living force is the person. If a person becomes consumed by ignorance, then the ignorance will appear as a living force, a bit like when someone wears a pair of trousers, the trousers acts like the legs.

Granted but hatred does not mean ignorance, those lost in hatred may know exactly what they do the pain they cause but still they may be aware. Would awerness realy make the destinction betwwen Manevolent and Benevolent? Essentialy does one who has awakend just wake up and understand?Would it depend soley onthe conclusions the now waked sleeper makes?

I think when in such a state, that we are compelled to hate, then we have already become nourished

Uhh I don't get it could you rephrase it for me?

In a sense use hatred to fuel a darker awakening?

If it takes simply a large amount of energy to become an immortal then could you draw it from a way of manevolence and not a way of benevolence?

I am in know way certain of this or anything.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Is it natural in the universe to have have destruction? It is all around us just as creation. Could this be a source of energy?

You are right, but this type of destruction has nothing to do with hate, as you say it is natural.

Granted but hatred does not mean ignorance, those lost in hatred may know exactly what they do the pain they cause but still they may be aware.

But that is not “knowledge,” that is just ignorance. A kills B because B looked at his girlfriend a bit too long, think of all the things A didn’t see, before committing his act.

Would awerness realy make the destinction betwwen Manevolent and Benevolent?

Using the example of A and B, yes I think so.

Essentialy does one who has awakend just wake up and understand?

You have to be more specific in your question.

Awakened to what/who?
What do you mean in this regard, “essentially?”
Wake up from what?
Understand what?

Uhh I don't get it could you rephrase it for me?

You asked,

And If Hate is force does that not mean one could use its energy to nourrish him self?

I answered,


I think when in such a state, that we are compelled to hate, then we have already become nourished

I don’t think there is a natural dark force, but a neutral and natural force. I think force exists because the supreme force exists (God), and that portion of force which is allotted to man, to utalise within their own existence, is consciousness (life). Therefore if ones consciousness is consumed with lust, anger, greed and envy, then all their expression of force will have that signature. Lust, anger, envy and greed is the cause of hatred.

If it takes simply a large amount of energy to become an immortal…..

What do you mean?

I am in know way certain of this or anything.

Are you not certain of anything?

Love

Jan Ardena.

 

[Empty Dragon]

You are right, but this type of destruction has nothing to do with hate, as you say it is natural.

I am talking about the emotional energy of passion since love and hatred are realy just examples of passion. People draw power from love just has hatred. Ignorance and hatred are not he same thing. Hatred is a passion, Ignorance is having un-concsious mind.

But that is not “knowledge,”

Never said it was but it is a path that one can choose to walk. But if you are concsious knowledge comes with out effort. What conclusion are made really depend on the concsiousness that dreams it up.

But that is not “knowledge,” that is just ignorance. A kills B because B looked at his girlfriend a bit too long, think of all the things A didn’t see, before committing his act.

Even if A new the all factor he may still choose to kill B. Even if the truth is known there still is choice. Can you tell the difference between good and evil? Does good or evil really exist out side our preseptions is it an inffallible [/B]truth[/B]?

Using the example of A and B, yes I think so.

Why?

Essentialy does one who has awakend just wake up and understand?
Awakened to what/who?
What do you mean in this regard, “essentially?”
Wake up from what?
Understand what?

If I knew I would tell you.

I don’t think there is a natural dark force, but a neutral and natural force. I think force exists because the supreme force exists (God), and that portion of force which is allotted to man, to utalise within their own existence, is consciousness (life). Therefore if ones consciousness is consumed with lust, anger, greed and envy, then all their expression of force will have that signature. Lust, anger, envy and greed is the cause of hatred

The truth is beyond though so how can we concieve it with our litereary minds? Lust, Greed and Envy to me are just more exaples of passions that if not tended to will lead one furth away from the truth.

The immortals thing is a whole other topic but in a nut shell I mean one has created a spirts body. (Blah BLah Blah Golden pill etc...)

Are you not certain of anything?

In the realm of the universe not at all. My entire mind is recompiled every day it is in constant state change to hold on to one state would only be foolish. But in my own life there are some thing I Trust in. (Ei: myself, my lover...)