perpetual causative simultaneous actions
interesting idea
(its like a maths problem that may or may not work)
how does everything stop from not all happening at the same time ?
the reflection of the person in the mirror bouncing to another mirror going on forever...
the action of the phenomena
which is being observed
so it is as a consequence
of a previous or simultaneous action/phenomena ?
remember this is black holes(physics), not religion
did someone mention time as a factor ?
assuming you are observing, you can only be observing(in theory) from a time location
if you are not observing, then you are creating and lose your ability to be sitting in the future observing your own consequential action being enacted at the same time in the future, (in one theory).
it gets very complicated if your talking REAL (theoretical)quantum physics
physics
not religion ...
You truly have a great point.
But instead of "time location" (assumed to be a expression of yours because such a thing doesn't exist) the physical location of the observer might bring different results. This has happened with the different reports of the Shoemaker asteroid hitting Jupiter, when from Earth and spacecrafts, the observation reports were disparate when comparing their data.
To bring this topic
Black holes do not exist to its end at one two three, the next step is to follow your inclusion of
time as the major factor, this is because
time is the key opening the marvels predicted by Relativity, and Relativity is the base foundation for the formation of black holes.
You just ruined lots of expected fun, but I think making this debate short is better for everybody, it saves lots of babbling around.
Time: Relativity never specified what
time is, but assumed its characteristics.
A scrutiny reveals
time is nothing but a measure, and invention made to to obtain an ordered data, like we do with other measures we call weight, longitude, volume, etc.
Discarding
time as a physical entity capable to be distorted by the speed of objects and gravity force of bodies, then the whole theory of Relativity is invalidated, and by consequence the theoretical foundation to assume the existence of black holes disappears the same way it appeared decades ago: by magic.
Ladies and gentlemen, claps to RainbowSingularity, thanks to him we went straight to the main source of the theory of black holes (Relativity), and thanks to him this discussion has reached its top ending.
What can be discussed now?
Time doesn't exist physically,
time is just a measure, you won't expect a measure to suffer "dilatation" because such should be nuts.
Relativity discards itself by its lack of evidence inside its own doctrines, it shot itself in its foot when it used a conventional idea of those times -flowing of time- which was a common understanding in those years, and now it has been realized that such was no other but a common misunderstanding of reality. Lol.
I feel frustrated as you do, because I was preparing a muddy ground to be mopped by lots of faces while making them eat dirt, but, well, thanks to RainbowSingularity participation, the show is ending fast.
I don't think someone will want to discuss the validity of Relativity to make valid the black holes theory.
If such is the next step, by rules of the scientific method, the physical existence of
time must be brought to the table to be analyzed, tested, and play with it to obtain the maximum information of such a phenomenon.
No other but direct evidence must be presented, because in order to define
time as other than a measure, a solid definition of
time will be required, and that definition must include those weird characteristics of flowing and dilatation.
Without evidence, whatever you say is not science.
Black holes do not exist, I put my house and all my money on it.
