Can fate and free will co-exist?

Truly it isn't the murderer's fault. I don't believe in moral responsibility. However steps should be taken to make the environment inhospitable for murderers. This is why I believe in the death penalty. Not to punish the murderer, but to make others thinking about murderering someone at least think twice. Of course if we had an effective way of rehabilitating the murderer even better, but at the moment the judicial system is not set up not for rehabilitation but punishment and holding.
 
I know this is late but I still hope you guys can respond. If genetics and environment make our choices, what becomes of responsibility? Should a person who commits a murder be held responsible for his actions or should the act be seen as the outcome of his environment and genetic make-up? Or heck, should we say the murder was fated and no one is directly responsible and just move on from there.
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It is the murderer's fault, although there are exceptions. For sake of argument, let's say a man in his 20's, lived his life "normally." Then one day he commits murder because his wife cheated on him.

His fault? Yes, for he has the reason to choose to kill or not to kill.

It may be because he overreacted, saw that was wrong and wanted to fix it. But since we live in a society, we must live by it's standards...although other variables influenced him to do so, it was solely his decision and he could've stopped it. He has his free will, be it WEAK or STRONG. Society will only punish those who break the law, simply as that, even if the circumstances are almost unavoidable....
 
I don't believe in moral responsibility.
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Yes, morals is like a mask humans wear to cover "evil." But I believe we need moral responsibility because humans created morals for themselves. For society to live in with standards, and those who oppose the standards will be responsible for that. Although there are some cases where some moral standards are senseless.
 
Laws in a society should be based on logical reasoning on what would better society as a whole. Not on some vague notion of retribution, punishment, right and wrong.
 
Laws in a society should be based on logical reasoning on what would better society as a whole.

Unfortunatly things do not work like that Angelus. The problem with that is that everyone has different ideas about what kind of laws would better society.

Example: New Law- I think that I should be able to buy beer on sundays and that it would make me and a lot of other people happy.

Christians would get up and quote the bible, all the people in my AA meetings would go crazy, youd have people saying "Why isnt pot legal?" All because I want to be able to buy beer on sundays. Everyone has different ideas about what the perfect society should be, which is why we will never have one.

Not on some vague notion of retribution, punishment, right and wrong.

It always breaks down to right and wrong. Its wrong to drink beer on sundays because thats gods day.
 
axonio 98,

Ther's no freedom without destiny.
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Why?

I don't believe in fate, but I believe in divine plan. It's different. The divine plan you can accept it or not, you have the free will to accept it. Fate and free will cannot co-exist, but Divine plan and free will can.
 
Originally posted by CounslerCoffee
It always breaks down to right and wrong. Its wrong to drink beer on sundays because thats gods day.
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There is no God.
 
Do you believe in a madman? Then, you yourself is a madman...! ;)
That is not even a parable at all!!

God is Life... and life never dies...
 
TruthSeeker,

Do you believe in a madman?
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What, in your opinion, defines madness?

Then, you yourself is a madman...!
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This observation has been made before, nothing new here.
For future reference - it's madwoman not man. :)

That is not even a parable at all!!
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Well, that is your opinion, I disagree. I define a parable this way:
a simple story illustrating a moral or religious lesson, how do you
define it?

God is Life...
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What is your definition of God?

and life never dies...
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What is your definition of dying?
 
sorry... i cannot reply anymore...

Interesting. I would ask why you can't reply anymore
but that would require a reply and you already stated
you can't do that so I am not going to.
 
"Thus spake the devil unto me, once on a time: "Ever God hath his hell: it is his love for man."
And lately did I hear him say these words: "God is dead: of his pity for man hath God died."
--Friedrich Nietzsche
 
"Thus be warned of pity: from there a heavy cloud will yet come
to man. Verily, I understand weather signs. But mark this too: all
great love is even above all its pity; for it still wants to create the
beloved.
"Myself I sacrifice to my love, and my neighbor as myself"---thus
runs the speech of all creators. But all creators are hard.
Thus spoke Zarathustra." -Friedrich Nietzsche
 
Kaufmann translation, Evilpoet? I prefer that over the Common one, however, I'd have to type these in if I used my Kaufmann.

"Whether it be the pity of a God, or whether it be human pity, it is offensive to modesty. And unwillingness to help may be nobler than the virtue that rusheth to do so."

But if you do help:

"They call you heartless: but your heart is true, and I love the bashfulness of your goodwill. Ye are ashamed of your flow, and others are ashamed of their ebb."

This is off topic, but I always was in awe of how closely Nietzsche's thought - especially in Zarathrusra - is to mine.

To be pitied is degrading. It coats both the person who pities and the the person who is pitied with slime. Much better is empathy, "sympathy for suffering and veiled deities!"

Pity and mercy are the lowest forms of domination. Yet empathy is an expression of love.
 
I believe that both fate and free will can co-exist together. I believe that people are born onto this world with specific predestined purposes according to the strengths that they already posessed in a pre-earth existence.

Free will plays a part in letting people choose the path they were given or by creating a new one for themselves. People always have a choice.

Life can be looked at as an assignment. We have the plan, the wishes of our leaders, but in the end its us who chooses our actions.
 
Kaufmann translation, Evilpoet?

Yes it is. :)


Sils Maria

Here I sit, waiting---not for anything---
Beyond Good and Evil, fancying

Now light, now shadows, all a game,
All lake, all noon, all time without aim.
Then, suddenly, friend, one turned into two---
And Zarathustra walked into my view.
-Nietzsche, The Gay Science
__________

"It is certainly not the least charm of a theory that it is refutable:
it is with precisely this charm that it entices subtler minds. It
seems that the hundred times refuted theory of "free will" owes
its continued existence to this charm alone -- : again and again
there comes along someone who feels he is strong enough to
refute it." -Nietzsche, Beyond Good And Evil
 
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