Can Scientists & Mystics Work Together?
- Thread starter Dredd
- Start date
No it's a "Sick of hearing the same "argument" over and over again when it's been shown to be wrong every single time it's been raised".
You don't read, you don't take in what's written and STILL keep coming back to the nonsense that's been shown to be nonsense.
You don't read, you don't take in what's written and STILL keep coming back to the nonsense that's been shown to be nonsense.
It has not been shown that I was wrong, I use the same information science uses, I also add evidence that science doesn't use, which they should use.
Dywyddyr, maybe I should ask, what is your connection to science? Are you a scientist, if so, what field of science do you work in?
It has. Many times. (For example your oft-repeated statement that transitional forms haven't been found).
If by "use" you mean "ignore" or " dismiss" then I'd agree with you. Otherwise no you don't. (For example your claim that what science says is a transitional form isn't).
You haven't added evidence, you've speculated based on a priori assumptions.
I'm an engineer, with a basic grounding in physics (but have also done courses in/ and still read books on other sciences because I'm interested in science).
This is a mistake on what transitional means. It is the in between ones. Which in evolution means, the mistakes that would happen in between one animal and the next. For example, a whale with fins, at the middle of the sides. Now evolution doesn't know where to evolve to. So any placement would be random. Maybe further back toward the tail, or maybe on the top, or maybe place at different areas, on the whale. Evolution doesn't know that it is trying to make flippers up near the whales head. So the transitional ones are the ones that are in weird places that didn't work out. Also the configuration of the fins to flippers would have the same kind of errors until it got it right. These are the transitional ones. But none of these are found. What is found is completed flippers, in the right place near the head on the sides. There should be millions of these kinds of errors in the fossil record, and seen today. This goes for all parts of animals, the brain the nerves, muscles etc.
Evolution also would not know to stop, these transitional ones , should still be going on. But there are four legs under a dog, we don't see dog with 2 legs on top and two on the bottom, or all legs in different places. If a mutation does that, we don't see that passed on so that all dog are like that.
This is evidence this is what we see today, and in the fossil record.
So why is that?
And the mistake is yours.
Utterly wrong. You clearly have no idea how evolution works (but that's been demonstrated many times).
This is YET ANOTHER of your repeated idiocies that has been shown to be incorrect, and why it's it's incorrect.
Because you're an idiot and you ignore the actual meaning (and the explanations thereof).
More trolling.
Ok I understand that. As an engineer you understand what it takes to build things that have a good out come. It takes experience and planning and good construction practices with good builders. You don't expect things to happen on their own. Man can't build with biology yet but he is getting close.It has taken many years to get to this point, and will take many more. If man does build something from this , you can't say it just happened, it would have taken many year of intelligent know how to do any of this.
Strawman. (Repeated).
Still trolling.
And as an engineer I'm also aware of self-evolving equipment. (NASA's studies into wing shapes for example).
Spidergoat went through it (as have others).
And you ignored it (and the others).
Still trolling.
The sooner you're banned the better.
This is exactly what I have been talking about. This wing did not just happen. These scientist or engineers designed that wing and had other intelligence people build it. What part of that was did not require intelligence. The Wright brothers used deforming wings on their airplane, they had to do it manually , but still it took intelligence to do it.
This is exactly the same with the life we see. It can adapt to different situations, but that doesn't mean it wasn't built in the first place.
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hay_you:
An example of this kind in human beings would be genes that predispose some people to various kinds of cancer. Right?
Do you accept those kinds of things as "transitional forms" for human beings? If not, then what are you talking about?
That's wrong, because every whale-like creature has other whale-like creatures as its offspring. Any changes from one generation to the next are likely to be relatively minor. The same happens in human beings. Maybe you're a little taller than your parents, or a little shorter. Maybe your ears stick out a little more or a little less. But you don't grow ears on your bum.
More importantly, what is found, in the case of ambulocetus for example, is a creature that lived in water that looks a lot like a whale except that it had legs instead of flippers.
That's because such a large difference in one generation would require many separate genetic mutations to occur all at once. The chances against that are astronomical. What we do see is that there are many many different breeds of dog, and they all evolved from wild wolves - gradually, not in one step. A wolf never births a chihuahua.
Finally, regarding the fossil record, the chances of fossilisation of any creature are minuscule. Of all the creatures that have ever lived, far far less than 0.001% have been fossilised. Moreover, we have only dug up a tiny tiny fraction of all the fossils that exist. Nevertheless, we have a number superb examples of "intermediate" species, such as ambulocetus (mentioned above). In reality, of course, all species are intermediate between something and something else.
An example of this kind in human beings would be genes that predispose some people to various kinds of cancer. Right?
Do you accept those kinds of things as "transitional forms" for human beings? If not, then what are you talking about?
That's wrong, because every whale-like creature has other whale-like creatures as its offspring. Any changes from one generation to the next are likely to be relatively minor. The same happens in human beings. Maybe you're a little taller than your parents, or a little shorter. Maybe your ears stick out a little more or a little less. But you don't grow ears on your bum.
More importantly, what is found, in the case of ambulocetus for example, is a creature that lived in water that looks a lot like a whale except that it had legs instead of flippers.
That's because such a large difference in one generation would require many separate genetic mutations to occur all at once. The chances against that are astronomical. What we do see is that there are many many different breeds of dog, and they all evolved from wild wolves - gradually, not in one step. A wolf never births a chihuahua.
Finally, regarding the fossil record, the chances of fossilisation of any creature are minuscule. Of all the creatures that have ever lived, far far less than 0.001% have been fossilised. Moreover, we have only dug up a tiny tiny fraction of all the fossils that exist. Nevertheless, we have a number superb examples of "intermediate" species, such as ambulocetus (mentioned above). In reality, of course, all species are intermediate between something and something else.
Scientists and mystics will have to work together, otherwise scientists will conclude "We're nr. 1, so why try harder?"
No this is not transitional. There is variety in people , and is a real problem in operations where organs are transplanted for example. The body tries to reject them. We are not clones of one another. The immune systems of each of us is different than some else.
What a transitional animal would be, from a cell, to evolve would have to start making say a bone material, but this would not be in any shape or position in the cell that would be useful. It is just some bone material. This could kill the cell and evolution would stop. You would have to wait to see if it could happen again. If it didn't die, and the material was in the DNA, then it would pass it on. This would happen many times, until maybe the bone material got bigger, and maybe killed that cell. Then evolution would stop , you would have to start over. Now if it lived, how many times would it take for this cell to make a shell that say protected it. There would be 1000s or millions, with many dieing , and many different sizes and shapes. Evolution would still go on and this shape would again be deformed and evolve from there. These are the transitional ones. This goes for more complex animals as well and vegetation. But what is found is completed animals with a protecting shell or complete legs etc. This all has to have the whole system working ( like blood, veins, heart brain, before a leg is useful)
For creation you would expect to find completed work animals that can survive and reproduce. That is what is found today and in the fossil record.
How could evolution produce a complete leg with everything the right shape the right size and connected to one another, without all the transitional steps.( all the errors) We can see simpler eyes and legs and brain etc, but these still are functional in their host, they are not errors.
Even Darwin saw this as a problem with his theory, he hoped that scientists would find these fossils in the future, but they are not there.
This is why scientists can not reproduce this in a lab. A single cell without the DNA is not going to do any of this.
Once you get to animals with DNA, mutations are usually bad. For example in a human two heads is not considered good. Or an extra pair of arms. This mutation would also be in the fossil record. And some are probably found. These are not transitional, the DNA and in animal world it is more the fittest strongest that do the mating. DNA fries to keep things centered, and not deviate too much. But still allowing for variety.
So in whales if they were evolving to change the position of the fins , why would it go to a different position, why would it go directly to what we see as completed flippers in the right spot. How did it know to do that. Why would it do that with out trying many other placements first. Because even with DNA giving a completed fin , the place and the changing of this fin into a flipper would be random, even if it is just slight changes. This tells you that there is intelligence involved with this. Intelligence knows that has to be done and where to position the fin and how to change it into a flipper. And inteligence can do this without the transitional errors. That is what we find.
There were many kinds of animals that have gone extinct. Many very different than we have now. But still these are complete animals. Without badly deformed bodies. There was a purpose for the very large animals in the past, and that was to work and give the soil organic material so that life as we see can survive on this planet. There have been millions of animals and all use DNA, so there are many that look similar, but that doesn't mean they evolved from one to another. There is not evidence of this.
