Cephalopods: Aliens From Earth?
- Thread starter Write4U
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Seattle
Valued Senior Member
They aren't one of the most intelligent animals on Earth. They are intelligent for an invertebrate. It also doesn't propel itself by "filling its head with water". It fills the mantel with water.
That's also not the primary way that it moves and they don't go far. That's why the use the ink but in general they just crawl around.
I'm not sure if this will post but it's a picture I took of a Giant Pacific Octopus with its eggs.
That's also not the primary way that it moves and they don't go far. That's why the use the ink but in general they just crawl around.
I'm not sure if this will post but it's a picture I took of a Giant Pacific Octopus with its eggs.
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I saw a reputable video, many years ago, and it did focus on the amazing intelligence of these invertebrate.......
https://www.upworthy.com/octopus-in...e-most-frighteningly-smart-things-they-can-do
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-octopuses-smart/
Not sure exactly where they would rank, but certainly up there!!
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Seattle
Valued Senior Member
They are interesting, amazing, and intelligent for what they are. Mainly they are just different.
There are intelligent but much of what they can do is controlled by a distributed network meaning their main brain isn't involved. They are also distinguished from most other highly intelligent animals in that they don't live long.
The females die after their eggs are hatched which takes an amazing 6 months. Sometimes they die before then an their eggs die and/or are eaten. The females don't eat for those 6 months or leave those eggs so they are in bad shape. They have to keep those eggs aerated constantly. The males die shortly after breeding as well. They go on "walk about" and increasing become "demented".
A large Giant Pacific Octopus lives about 3 years. They are also not at the top of their food chain. They get eaten all the time. They are good problem solvers. There are cases of them escaping their display tanks in aquariums around the world.
There was one in New Zealand I believe where it got out and managed to go back out to sea. However in the Seattle Aquarium (I volunteered there as a naturalist and a diver briefly) one escaped it's public display tank and was found dead on the floor the next morning (smart and not so smart).
What they can do in the wild is indeed wild and I have witnessed a lot in 1,000 or so dives in the Pacific Northwest. The implication though seems to be that they are one of the smartest animals in the world up there with an Orca for example. This is just an overstatement.
An Orca has a bigger brain than we do and lives as long as we live. An octopus is in the "snail" family. The amazing part is just that it is so smart for what it is? Of course the ability to change color, skin texture and to squeeze through any opening as long as it can get it's beak though (which is the only hard structure in its body) is amazing to watch.
I've seen a large spread out GPO when I was out diving and once they noticed me it started to move away and at some point decided to go into instant camouflage mode and even though I was look right at it and even though I've seen them many times it seemed to instantly disappear and it's only by look for the eyes that I could tell it was still there.
They don't always do that. Many times in the day time (they hunt at night) they will be just sitting on a underwater rock or something. Not disguised. Other times they are completely disguised. I've even seen one big one that became fearful balloon up, "walk" upright, flash red and white and take off and they camouflage spread against a rock.
Even though they are often eaten by seals and harbor seals and their only defense is camouflage or to jet and ink to get away (but not very far) they are great at hunting small fish, crabs, etc. Those have no chance.
They also spend most of their time in a "den" and you can locate them often by the empty crab shells just outside the den looking like room service eaten food neatly cleaned and stacked just outside the entrance to their den.
There are intelligent but much of what they can do is controlled by a distributed network meaning their main brain isn't involved. They are also distinguished from most other highly intelligent animals in that they don't live long.
The females die after their eggs are hatched which takes an amazing 6 months. Sometimes they die before then an their eggs die and/or are eaten. The females don't eat for those 6 months or leave those eggs so they are in bad shape. They have to keep those eggs aerated constantly. The males die shortly after breeding as well. They go on "walk about" and increasing become "demented".
A large Giant Pacific Octopus lives about 3 years. They are also not at the top of their food chain. They get eaten all the time. They are good problem solvers. There are cases of them escaping their display tanks in aquariums around the world.
There was one in New Zealand I believe where it got out and managed to go back out to sea. However in the Seattle Aquarium (I volunteered there as a naturalist and a diver briefly) one escaped it's public display tank and was found dead on the floor the next morning (smart and not so smart).
What they can do in the wild is indeed wild and I have witnessed a lot in 1,000 or so dives in the Pacific Northwest. The implication though seems to be that they are one of the smartest animals in the world up there with an Orca for example. This is just an overstatement.
An Orca has a bigger brain than we do and lives as long as we live. An octopus is in the "snail" family. The amazing part is just that it is so smart for what it is? Of course the ability to change color, skin texture and to squeeze through any opening as long as it can get it's beak though (which is the only hard structure in its body) is amazing to watch.
I've seen a large spread out GPO when I was out diving and once they noticed me it started to move away and at some point decided to go into instant camouflage mode and even though I was look right at it and even though I've seen them many times it seemed to instantly disappear and it's only by look for the eyes that I could tell it was still there.
They don't always do that. Many times in the day time (they hunt at night) they will be just sitting on a underwater rock or something. Not disguised. Other times they are completely disguised. I've even seen one big one that became fearful balloon up, "walk" upright, flash red and white and take off and they camouflage spread against a rock.
Even though they are often eaten by seals and harbor seals and their only defense is camouflage or to jet and ink to get away (but not very far) they are great at hunting small fish, crabs, etc. Those have no chance.
They also spend most of their time in a "den" and you can locate them often by the empty crab shells just outside the den looking like room service eaten food neatly cleaned and stacked just outside the entrance to their den.
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Interesting and thanks.
Some of the amazing stuff Orcas get up to is mind boggling!!
Question: Grampus/Orca/Killer Whale...are they all the same species? dolphins?
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
I've never heard the term "Grampus" but Orca and Killer Whale are the same thing. They are large dolphins that the Native American Indians called Killers of Whales. They kill whales, they aren't whales.
I've heard them while diving but never seen them while diving. I have seen them from the surface while on a dive boat. They are located in all the world's oceans. They are different families with different "languages" and habits.
In the PNW there is the resident pod and they eat fish but not mammals. The seals and harbor seals are safe but there is also a transient pod that comes through randomly every few years. You usually know when they are around because the seals haul themselves out of the water more often. The transient pod eats mammals.
Orcas pods are also matrilineal meaning that they are headed by the eldest female.
While certainly it is not heard much [I came across it many years ago] and am always looked at funny when I raise it, I always associated it with another name for an Orca/Killer Whale.......
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grampus
- the genus that includes Risso's dolphin as its only species
- A common name for the orca
- Another name for the hellbender, a species of salamander
- Another name for a hellgrammite, the dobsonfly larva
- Another name for Mastigoproctus giganteus, a species of whip scorpion
- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
- Never heard the term "Risso's dolphin" strangely enough.
If we were the equivalent at problem solving in our lifetime we could have a Prime Minister age 6 months
Albert Einstein at 9 months
Who knows what at 2 years and beyond
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
We have several types of squid here. The one that looks most like the bobtail squid in the video is the stubby squid.
The plainfin midshipman has bioluminescent "dots" along its side and at night it floats just off the bottom (it usually stays on the bottom) and all that you see are the dots. Plankton is drawn to the "dots" and the plainfin midshipman eats them. It's call a midshipman because of the dots which resemble the buttons on a midshipmans uniform.
The plainfin midshipman has bioluminescent "dots" along its side and at night it floats just off the bottom (it usually stays on the bottom) and all that you see are the dots. Plankton is drawn to the "dots" and the plainfin midshipman eats them. It's call a midshipman because of the dots which resemble the buttons on a midshipmans uniform.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Are there any non-mammal tool users other than octopuses?
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Sorry, I meant to ask if any other non-mammal aquatic animal uses tools.
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
Decorator crabs.
RainbowSingularity
Valued Senior Member
clown fish ?
does it recognize the function of the stinging sea anemone ?
crabs obliviously
the eel and shark hunt together(i forget which, cross species co-operation as a pack ?)
is pack hunting flushing and swapping of roles of eating for flushing a function of tool recognition ?
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
It lives in symbiosis with the Anemones.
http://tolweb.org/treehouses/?treehouse_id=3390#
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4027413/#
Any sea dweller that uses empty shells for protection or habitat is basically a tool user.
But AFAIK, most deep ocean dwellers have symbiotic relationships with other species.
Like some squids which use bioluminescent bacteria as a cloaking device. (Hawaiian Bobtail squid).
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Seattle
Valued Senior Member
I wouldn't say "most". Maybe it's more common around a reef environment (which isn't "deep" by ocean standards).
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
One thing that many people may not realize is that on the clear water reefs that you snorkel on vacation, the water is relatively "dead". The life is all on the reef but without the reef, not much would be going on.
The water is clear because there are no nutrients (little nutrients). When I dive in the PNW the typical visibility is about 15 feet due to all the nutrients (plankton) in the water and with the cold temperatures everything grows "big".
On tropical reefs the main attractions are the colorful fish. In cold water diving it's the invertebrates that are the main attractions (and they can be colorful).
The water is clear because there are no nutrients (little nutrients). When I dive in the PNW the typical visibility is about 15 feet due to all the nutrients (plankton) in the water and with the cold temperatures everything grows "big".
On tropical reefs the main attractions are the colorful fish. In cold water diving it's the invertebrates that are the main attractions (and they can be colorful).