Maybe I will. But you could save some time with the relevant citation.
Christian Nationalism and School Boards
- Thread starter Pinball1970
- Start date
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
Mark 16: 13-20
Even so, he didn't hole up in a bunker nor retreat into the mountains--and neither did he live in a gated community. Endtimers were abundant then, and even to some degree today, but they still have to live in the world.
Whatever his motivations, Jesus seemed to rightly recognize that material wealth, beyond what is needed for subsistence, and abundance do not guarantee happiness, contentment or even spiritual satisfaction. Taking that further, concentration of wealth and gross inequities do almost guarantee discontentment and unrest amongst the vast majority, hence the "need" for gated communities and similar such bullshit. IOW what he lived and preached was very much the antithesis of what contemporary Evangelical Christians seem to value.
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
What do you think Messiah actually means?
EDIT: As per before I will save you time. Messiah is from a Hebrew word meaning "anointed one," they anointed the kings head with oil in ancient times. "Christ" is Greek for Messiah.
That is why the Romans executed him, a claim to the throne which was a treasonous crime.
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Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
Possibly, scholars are fairly certain on some of the things he said and did and debate other parts.
As I said previously and the point of the OP, teaching these stories the way scholarship outlines them is fine.
The way the school board seems to be presenting them will be more like preaching a religion.
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
Apologies I made an error there
Matthew 16:13-20 not Mark
"13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[b] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[c] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[d] loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah."
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
So just to make a few points because the thread is not about (me) hating on Religion or Jesus/Christianity specifically.
Some of you are Christians, cultural Christians, believers, that it fine, this is not an attack on individuals.
This is not an attack on religion either, I have issues with it, but this is not that thread.
This is also not an attack on the Bible, it is a very important book, perhaps the most important (semi) historical work and work of literature, I study it for a hobby.
This is whether the Bible should be taught to children as 100% factual history, the distorted version they want to present and with antisemitic overtones.
Alarm bells should be the fact they do not want to reveal who the authors are and even Pastors think it should not go ahead.
Some of you are Christians, cultural Christians, believers, that it fine, this is not an attack on individuals.
This is not an attack on religion either, I have issues with it, but this is not that thread.
This is also not an attack on the Bible, it is a very important book, perhaps the most important (semi) historical work and work of literature, I study it for a hobby.
This is whether the Bible should be taught to children as 100% factual history, the distorted version they want to present and with antisemitic overtones.
Alarm bells should be the fact they do not want to reveal who the authors are and even Pastors think it should not go ahead.
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
Eric Clapton dies and arrives at the purely gates where St Peter is waiting for him.
Brother Eric, you have transgressed in your life but overall, your contribution to humanity with your art brought peace and love, Jesus and the holy father are well pleased.
Be prepared to meet those you lost and spend eternity in happiness.
At that they both they hear this amazing guitar playing echoing in the distance, beautiful blues runs , incredible bends, feedback , whammy control..
Eric says, “Hey, that sounds like Hendrix to me!”
St Peter says, “Oh no that’s God, he just thinks he’s Hendrix.”
Chosen or anointed. I don't see anywhere he's given himself a Greek title: Peter did (if that was the word he used; it may have been mistranslated) - and nobody offered him a crown, for he is recognized as the prince of the kingdom of Heaven, not of Israel. There is no mention of a rebellion. He's only claiming his rightful post-mortem patrimony.
Why is this particular nit so important to you? The thread isn't about hair-splitting theology but American schools. They're not going to teach it as cultural history or comparative religion; they'll teach the bits they like (swatches of Leviticus, I'm guessing) as dogma and ignore the rest (like the part where bacon is off limits).
God strutting about in a pin-striped suit, thinks He's Denny Cane. I guess He gets bored with the choir, so he does the occasional spot of stand-up and impressions to lighten the mood.
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Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
Not sure how we got here I would have to look back
That was the point I made. "Who was Jesus" was a thread I started based on what I had learned from scholarship, I find that interesting.
Who was Jesus?
Who did he think he was?
What did the Gospel writers think he was (all different)
What did doctrine claim he was, (by 325 CE and on wards)
When I was in high school, I went to my first period classroom like 10 minutes early one day. There was a small group clustered with the teacher up front. They were doing some sort of Bible study, I guess, and it really freaked me out. I walked out and didn't reenter the classroom until the bell rang. It was technically prior school commenced, so I guess it was legal? But... Relatively mild stuff compared with today.
I grew up in a completely non-religious household and was pretty oblivious to the existence of other minds outside dogs, my books and whatever other media I consumed. It honestly never occurred to me then that the vast majority of Americans are Christians of some variety. It's still weird, but you get used to it. But I recall times when some kid would something or other about god, and I'd find myself wondering, "Is this guy for real?"
So do I, as a story. I don't actually believe it's an accurate biography. Nor is it entirely clear from the NT as it stands (who knows what it was before a committee of European priests edited it and however many clerics transcribed and translated it? I didn't find the Apocrypha particularly edifying, either. ) how the putative Jesus Christ thought of himself or why all those hundreds of miracles didn't get into any contemporary Roman chronicles. Even if considered no more than mass hysteria, it would seem notable. There is little doubt that a man fitting the description existed - in fact, I'd wager several did, at about the same time, but perhaps they didn't all have followers who kept diaries. There is no doubt that many self-styled prophets were crucified. There is plenty of evidence, but none of it verifiable as matching the biblical account.
So, I certainly wouldn't teach any of that book as history.
But what either of us thinks of it is irrelevant to what Oklahoma school boards will do with it.
Yeah, I always saw that in the same way that Budweiser is "the king of beers."
Dortmunder or Guinness or even Creemore could walk all over Bud, never mind bend a knee to it.
Gawdzilla Sama
Valued Senior Member
Self-anointed, like Jesus.
Cousin John the Baptist had a hand in that.
Gawdzilla Sama
Valued Senior Member
He did something besides baptizing?
Yeah. He outed Jesus:
John 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
and then, this happens:
Matthew 3: 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
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Gawdzilla Sama
Valued Senior Member
Convenient "evidence". Trail of custody of said evidence is ... junk.