Come and attack Christian belief please.

[jcarl]

Re: Aren't we brave now?

Originally posted by Godless

So here are my rebutals against Christianity;

1: If there was Addam and Eve, and then had two sons Cain & Able, Cain kills Able, Cain gets in trouble, (BTW, Why would an all knowing omnipotent god ask Cain were his brother was?. wouldn't he know that Cain has killed him?) gets thrown out of Eden yet finds a wife?. By my understanding there's only 3 people left in the world after Cain killed Abble right?.

Is it entirely impossible that God couldn't make another woman?

[Quoet]2: If God created man from his own image and man is not perfect, wouldn't this make god inperfect?[/Quote]

The "image" really means that man is a personal, rational, and moral being. Even though God is infinite and we are finite, we possess some of his elements of personality. Also, this means that we are able to understand certain aspects of him.

3: If God is the Alpha & Omega, what created it?

If something created God, then he wouldn't be God. It basically comes down to this(as far as Creation is concerned): There must be something eternal, whether it be Hydrogen or God. My question to you is this? Which sounds more believable: Hydrogen and chemical reactions blindly making the World, or God, an intelligent being, making the universe with some kind of design?

4: If man has "free will" and man does. This is contradiction of God's omnipotence.

God simply knows what we will do. As Geisler said," Knowing what men will do with their freedom is not the same as ordaining what they must do against their free choice."

If Noah and friends were the only ones left after the flood, then people all over the world would not share genetic markers showing an african origin. Then the story of Noah is either false or an allegory, in which case Christianity is false. Discuss.

Wouldn't Noah and his folks show the ancestral link from him to Adam?

Should we kill?
Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill."
Leviticus 24:17 "And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death."
vs.


Exodus 32:27 "Thus sayeth the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, . . . and slay every man his brother, . . . companion, . . . neighbor."
I Samuel 6:19 " . . . and the people lamented because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter."
I Samuel 15:2,3,7,8 "Thus saith the Lord . . . Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. . . . And Saul smote the Amalekites . . . and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."
Numbers 15:36 "And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses."
Hosea 13:16 "they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with children shall be ripped up

These all must be taken in context.(One good rule is to look at the verses around the supposed contradiction and see the context) Your first example in Exodus 32:27 is a demonstration that there is a consequence to going against God. Same thing goes for 1 Samuel 6:19 and 15:2(read the entire 2nd verse)

Without using your (guide) book of lies, tell us why is Christianity right, and all the other thounsand religious believes wrong?.

I don't know if this could be qualified as "w/o my lying guidebook" but anyways.
First of all not all of the religions out there are 100% fallacious. I really believe that if people followed the teachings of buddha and such that the world would be a better place. However their road of salvation is flawed.(I'll cover that in a second)
As sinners, which we all are, we are in need of redemption. The only thing that could cover our sins, so as to give us a way out of Hell, was a perfect sacrifice. A sacrificial lamb was necessary. Hence Jesus.
Now most other religions believe that one can somehow work one's way to Heaven through good morals and deeds and rituals. It is believed that somehow we can work our way up to God. But if God is infinite, and we are finite, then how can we build up to infinity? Therefore, the only way we can enter the presence of God is by him reaching down to us, not the other way around. This is where Jesus plays in: Jesus is the link that bridged the unbridgeable gap between God and man.
My lie book (sorry, but I gotta whip it out) sums it up quite nicely. Heb. 2:2-3; "For if the word spoken through the angels is proved to be steadfast, and each transgression and disobedience given a just reward, how then shall we escape if we reject so great a salvation, which was first spoken by our Lord and then confirmed to us by those who heard him."

 

[Hevene]

My question to you is this? Which sounds more believable: Hydrogen and chemical reactions blindly making the World, or God, an intelligent being, making the universe with some kind of design?

This all depend on your understanding about God. Some believe God is a man, some believe God is a woman. Some believe there are many Gods, some believe God is energy. Some don't really know what God looks likes, but he/she/it just is. It doesn't really matter, but what matters is what we do with our understanding, whether we use it to separate eachother from eachother, all we use it to move towards unity, love, tolerance and harmony.

I agree with you completely that

God simply knows what we will do. As Geisler said," Knowing what men will do with their freedom is not the same as ordaining what they must do against their free choice."

God does not judge, God simply observes. Judgements are made by humans to define who they are. What we think right, some might think them as wrong, good or bad are judgements we made based on who we are.

First of all not all of the religions out there are 100% fallacious.

Correct, all religion contains some truth.

. I really believe that if people followed the teachings of buddha and such that the world would be a better place. However their road of salvation is flawed.(

I alway remind myself that Our way is not the only way, our way is merely another way
Not only buddha's road of salvation is flawed, most organised religions' road of salvation are flawed.
We are not sinners, sins are created to limit us, by religious leaders. It's a form of control, it's false, and doesn't work.

Jesus is the link that bridged the unbridgeable gap between God and man.

You only think the gap in unbridgeable because you believe there is a gap and somehow you are unworthy for God. But God is never not there, we are never not part of God, we just refuse to believe that. Don't seek to find God, or to return to God, for you are already there, in fact you cannot not be there. Jesus never said he is special in anyway, but anyone can be like him, when you believe.

 

[jcarl]

Originally posted by Hevene
This all depend on your understanding about God. Some believe God is a man, some believe God is a woman. Some believe there are many Gods, some believe God is energy. Some don't really know what God looks likes, but he/she/it just is. It doesn't really matter, but what matters is what we do with our understanding, whether we use it to separate eachother from eachother, all we use it to move towards unity, love, tolerance and harmony.

I'll rephrase my question then; which makes more sense: chemical reactions blindly forming the universe or an intelligent being giving the universe a certain order.

God does not judge, God simply observes. Judgements are made by humans to define who they are. What we think right, some might think them as wrong, good or bad are judgements we made based on who we are.

If God is indeed just a spectator, and therefore doesn't interfere with us, then how did humans gain a sense of right and wrong. You can only know what is wrong when you have knowledge of what is right. You can't know what a crooked line is unless you have knowledge of what a straight line is.

I alway remind myself that Our way is not the only way, our way is merely another way
Not only buddha's road of salvation is flawed, most organised religions' road of salvation are flawed.

If my path is just another one of the many paths, then my path is wrong, for Jesus said "I am the way." Universalism doesn't work on that front and on the front that these many different paths are often contradictory. Therefore they cannot all be right.

We are not sinners, sins are created to limit us, by religious leaders. It's a form of control, it's false, and doesn't work.

Are you then saying that we never do wrong(which is sin)? Who would give religious leaders the initial authority to implement such a scheme? If you say that they assumed it, then what led the people to initially believe in it?

You only think the gap in unbridgeable because you believe there is a gap and somehow you are unworthy for God.

Indeed."For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"

But God is never not there, we are never not part of God, we just refuse to believe that. Don't seek to find God, or to return to God, for you are already there, in fact you cannot not be there.

So we are God, and God is us. But we were created weren't we? Then God therefore had to have been created. Then there must be something that is above God.

Jesus never said he is special in anyway, but anyone can be like him, when you believe.

Where in the Bible did you find this little gem?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Originally posted by jcarl

If God is indeed just a spectator, and therefore doesn't interfere with us, then how did humans gain a sense of right and wrong. You can only know what is wrong when you have knowledge of what is right. You can't know what a crooked line is unless you have knowledge of what a straight line is.
----------
M*W: "God" is not just a "spectator," "God" is the participant, the ONLY participant.
----------
If my path is just another one of the many paths, then my path is wrong, for Jesus said "I am the way." Universalism doesn't work on that front and on the front that these many different paths are often contradictory. Therefore they cannot all be right.
----------
M*W: IF Jesus really said that he was the ONLY way, then he was referring to GOD AS THE ONLY WAY...of ensuring salvation, because the universe replicates itself.
---------
Indeed."For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"
----------
M*W: "Sinned" simply means that as humans we have a mortal body and we experience genetic decay. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with bad behavior!
----------
So we are God, and God is us. But we were created weren't we?
----------
M*W: Yes, we were created. Yes, we are God, and God is creation.
----------
Then God therefore had to have been created. Then there must be something that is above God.
----------
M*W: Everything in the universe is relative. We know about the "Big Bang," but we really don't know what preceded the Big Bang or what caused it. I theorize it was to do with something involving massive heat. Our intelligence understands the concept of a creator, whether it is the Big Bang or a crucified rabbi. To ants, we may appear to their higher power. To us, God is greater than we are. It's all about relativity and synchronicity in the universe.

 

[jcarl]

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman

Originally posted by jcarl
----------
M*W: "God" is not just a "spectator," "God" is the participant, the ONLY participant.

So then all that is within the world is God, Correct?

----------
M*W: IF Jesus really said that he was the ONLY way, then he was referring to GOD AS THE ONLY WAY...of ensuring salvation, because the universe replicates itself.

-First off you seem to doubt that he actually said it. If I am interpreting this correctly, then what leads you to believe that he said something different.
-Secondly, I don't know how else "I am the way, the truth, and the life" can be interpreted when you take into account the last part of the statement. Full statement: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes unto the Father but by me." Clearly he was referring to himself and not God the Father.

M*W: "Sinned" simply means that as humans we have a mortal body and we experience genetic decay. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with bad behavior!

Sin: Something that goes against moral/ethical principles. How does that definition fit in with yours?

M*W: Yes, we were created. Yes, we are God, and God is creation.

Oh ok. So God and Creation are one in the same. The two hands drawing each other. Wouldn't something have to come along to create the two so as to start the process?

M*W: Everything in the universe is relative.

Is this an absolute statement?

We know about the "Big Bang," but we really don't know what preceded the Big Bang or what caused it. I theorize it was to do with something involving massive heat. Our intelligence understands the concept of a creator, whether it is the Big Bang or a crucified rabbi.

Of what relevance is this?

To ants, we may appear to their higher power. To us, God is greater than we are. It's all about relativity and synchronicity in the universe.

Since when do ants, or animals in general, have God-concious?

 

[CounslerCoffee]

Since when do ants, or animals in general, have God-concious?

You know what she meant.

 

[jcarl]

My point was that no animal has a god-conciousness, so only humans can understand the concept of a creator.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Originally posted by jcarl
So then all that is within the world is God, Correct?
----------
M*W: A beleagured "yes."
----------
-First off you seem to doubt that he actually said it. If I am interpreting this correctly, then what leads you to believe that he said something different.
----------
M*W: Yes, I doubt he said it. Paul wrote most of the NT, and what was attributed to Jesus was most likely written by Paul.
----------
-Secondly, I don't know how else "I am the way, the truth, and the life" can be interpreted when you take into account the last part of the statement. Full statement: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes unto the Father but by me." Clearly he was referring to himself and not God the Father.
----------
M*W: Supposedly this is what Jesus TAUGHT! I don't believe Jesus (if he was an actual historical person), taught that he was God! He taught ABOUT God.
"God is the way, the truth, the life. We are god, and this is what we believe. Interestingly, "life" is the "way" of human evolution, and this "truth"was what Jesus was speaking about. If Jesus did exist, then Paul bastardized his words to make him into a demigod savior. If Jesus didn't exist, then Paul totally, fictiously created these words for his "character" Jesus to say. Either way, what Paul said, and what Paul created, is a lie.
----------
Sin: Something that goes against moral/ethical principles. How does that definition fit in with yours?
----------
M*W: I believe the human race is moral and ethical with the exception of a very few. Our basic need is survival. Anything we do to preserve our survival is good. Anything one does that is harmful and is not aimed to protect our survival, is amoral. Humanity is good. Humanity is god.
----------
Oh ok. So God and Creation are one in the same. The two hands drawing each other. Wouldn't something have to come along to create the two so as to start the process?
----------
M*W: I've already explained this. Apparently you didn't read it or understand it. Pay attention. I'm going to make this brief. When the solar system was created (Big Bang), the heat of the SUN beamed down on this third rock and heated it, melted glaciers, and eventually spawned plants, trees, animals, mankind, weather, etc. What is God? God is all creation. God is not two or three, God is ONE.
----------
Since when do ants, or animals in general, have God-concious?
----------
M*W: Like I said, everything in the universe is RELATIVE to something else in the universe. Personally, I don't know if ants have a God-conscious. I don't know if animals or plants have a God-conscious. What I DO know is that human beings have a God-conscious. That's why since the ape with the bigger brain came along, he has been trying to understand that which he has no control over to quell his most basic fear--the fear of total abandonment. Death.

 

[P. M. Thorne]

OOPS! I DISAGREE

hI THERE MEDICINE*WOMAN,


M*W: Yes, I doubt he said it. Paul wrote most of the NT, and what was attributed to Jesus was most likely written by Paul.

Huh uh!

No! There have been thirteen epistles attributed to Apostle, but there are scholars who believe that he wrote only about half of them. (I have this somewhere, if you want me to pull it out).

The gospels were reportedly taken from various notes, written by various ones during the time of Christ, and probably a few from memory right after his death.

Some scholars believe that Matthew, Luke, and John, took much of what they wrote from Mark's gospel, and added their own information as they went along. The four of them do not all write in the same way, especially John and Luke, and neither the book of Acts or the gospels sound like Paul. (Luke also wrote Acts, so far as I know!! I have never heard it disputed.)

I have a lot of knowledge about what is in my Bible. Of course, some have a lot more, but I can tell you, I was stunned by such a claim. Why not assume that Peter or James wrote the gospels.

I am convinced that you have read some bad press.

The Jewish historian, Josephus wrote about the man Jesus, and then added, "If you could call Him a man. Josephus was not a Christian.

I DO WISH TO ADD TO THIS, on a bit of a different subject. I support your belief that we can be like Christ, but cannot support that we are like Christ now. In addition, I believe that when Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the life, he meant that he was here to show us how to life a much better life, a Godly life, a life that would bring us joy, peace and love, through knowledge.

That is the peace he was bringing. It is here. I know, because I have been through a lot of crap, and God has never failed me. Oh, I get discouraged, but I always have that "something," and in my darkest hours, when I have felt as though I could take no more, suddenly I would realize that I needed help, like right now.

Boy, when you are down far enough, no one has to tell you how to pray! And when I pray like that, I can feel the muscles relaxing, the aching goes away and the peace comes.

It has been some time since I felt so devastated, but I still have the peace...and try to remember that I have it, even when I can't anyone to please me! Just joking, to lighten things up a bit!

M.W. YOUR PROBABLY ALREADY KNOW THESE VERSES, BUT THEY GIVE BACKING TO WHAT YOU SAY ....

I John 3:2 "Beloved, now are we the sons of God..............
when He shall appear, we shall be like Him......................"

Romans 8:17 "......if children then heirs, heirs with God, and JOINT HEIRS with CHRIST.

Hebrews 2:10 "For it became Him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation (Christ) perfect through suffering."

Then in verse 11, it states that we are one with Christ and that he is not ashamed to call us brethern. Sounds pretty good to me.

I realize that many people almost despise Christianity, but this is really a good book, and it is going to take a lot more than mouthy Christians--Catholic or Protestent, - to make me think otherwise.

Just could not let you get by with saying such awful things about my buddy, Paul. He did not start the Catholic Church, the Baptist Church or any other church. Rather he called us (people) the Church. Someone else decided that those fancy buildings, - where one can go to glorify ecclesiastics, should be called churchs. And, I do not think it is worth making an issue over, but it can bring too much attention to the organizational part of it.

Meetings are one thing; fellowship is one thing; having mentors is one thing, but it is up to each of us to follow our purpose, or "to work out our own salvation." (James) Not that some of those religious organizations do no good, there are really good people in this world that do a lot of good stuff, and some of these are Christians, and some of those Christians are my friends, and I love them.

Later, M.W.

 

[P. M. Thorne]

clarifying

For anyone who reads the last posting, I thought I should clarify.

I said: suddenly I would realize that I needed help, like right now.

This does not mean now. I am fine. It was supposed to mean that at such times, I knew I need help right then; i.e. w/o delay!

(Did not want anyone to worry about me.) pmt

 

[jcarl]

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman

M*W: A beleagured "yes."[/b]

I'll get to this in a minute.

M*W: Yes, I doubt he said it. Paul wrote most of the NT, and what was attributed to Jesus was most likely written by Paul.

This was covered by P.M.Thorne so I won't get into it.

M*W: Supposedly this is what Jesus TAUGHT! I don't believe Jesus (if he was an actual historical person), taught that he was God! He taught ABOUT God.

Can you prove that he taught otherwise? IF not, then this is probably just speculation. Of course you'll say that he didn't exist. So decide which argument you want to use. If you don't believe he exists(even though you've admitted that you think he did) then say that and don't get into what he supposedly did. To argue about what he said is to take for granted that he existed.

"God is the way, the truth, the life. We are god, and this is what we believe. Interestingly, "life" is the "way" of human evolution, and this "truth"was what Jesus was speaking about.

[/B][/Quote] If Jesus did exist, then Paul bastardized his words to make him into a demigod savior.[/B][/Quote]

If Paul did this, then Peter obviously approved of it because he speaks well of Paul in 2 Peter 3:15-16.

Either way, what Paul said, and what Paul created, is a lie.

So your interpretation of what Jesus said is actually what Paul said. Then Paul would be saying what you believe.

M*W: I believe the human race is moral and ethical with the exception of a very few. Our basic need is survival. Anything we do to preserve our survival is good. Anything one does that is harmful and is not aimed to protect our survival, is amoral. Humanity is good. Humanity is god.

A guy robs a store. It would be necessary for his survival to kill the clerk. Oh...my bad you said "our." Who is that

M*W: I've already explained this. Apparently you didn't read it or understand it. Pay attention. I'm going to make this brief. When the solar system was created (Big Bang), the heat of the SUN beamed down on this third rock and heated it, melted glaciers, and eventually spawned plants, trees, animals, mankind, weather, etc. What is God? God is all creation. God is not two or three, God is ONE.

But then God would also be the Big Bang and the Sun. This system is a cycle of interdependent things. Therefore, something has to be the catalyst to get the ball rolling.

M*W: What I DO know is that human beings have a God-conscious.

This is off the subject, but God-conciousness is an arugment against evolution.

 

[Hevene]

I agree with Medicine*Woman

"God" is not just a "spectator," "God" is the participant, the ONLY participant.

The only participant because everything is God. We and God are one, we are God and God is us. Human's experiences are God's experience.

IF Jesus really said that he was the ONLY way, then he was referring to GOD AS THE ONLY WAY...of ensuring salvation, because the universe replicates itself.

Jesus did not say he was the ONLY way. There is no his way, or her way, or my way, your way. We are one, he's way is our way, but there can still be many ways.

"Sinned" simply means that as humans we have a mortal body and we experience genetic decay. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with bad behavior!

What is bad behavior anyway? Good and bad are your judgements on things, depending on your current understanding of life. They change as you evolve.

So we are God, and God is us. But we were created weren't we?

God created us from the Big Bang from God itself. So God split into many smaller units, but it is never not God. We as human being are also constantly creating things, we are God experienced. Without us, God will only be know to know God conceptually, but cannot experience herself.

Everything in the universe is relative.

The relativity allowed us to experience everything. In the absence of which that is not, that which is... is not. And it is through this experience we are able to evolve, to remember God, to re-member with God.
And to jcarl
{QUOTE]If God is indeed just a spectator, and therefore doesn't interfere with us, then how did humans gain a sense of right and wrong. You can only know what is wrong when you have knowledge of what is right. You can't know what a crooked line is unless you have knowledge of what a straight line is.[/QUOTE]
You are right here with the relativity. But to gain a sense of right and wrong, it's simply a judgement. It's when you say:"so what?" after a statement is made. Different people will come up with different answer, because we are at different levels of conciousness.

 

[jcarl]

Originally posted by Hevene


The only participant because everything is God. We and God are one, we are God and God is us. Human's experiences are God's experience.

But if we are created and we are God then wouldn't God have to be created, thus making something above him?

Jesus did not say he was the ONLY way.

John 14:4-6; {Jesus speaking}"And where I go you know, and the way you know." 5. Then Thomas said to him, "Lord, we do not know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" 6. Then Jesus replied to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

When ever you throw the word "except" in to a sentence it gives the statement a quality of exclusitivity. "There is no name given among men where we might be saved."-Acts 4:12.

There is no his way, or her way, or my way, your way. We are one, he's way is our way, but there can still be many ways.[/B]

What happens if you reject that way. That would make your way contradictory to my way, which would then mean that they are not one.

What is bad behavior anyway? Good and bad are your judgements on things, depending on your current understanding of life. They change as you evolve.

But here's the thing: I know of no animal who has morals and such. If we indeed evolved, then where did we pick these traits up?

God created us from the Big Bang from God itself.

So God created God, which is Creation. Don't you have to exist before you can make something else? Again this is the two hands drawing each other. Something had to make those two hands in order for the cycle to begin.

You are right here with the relativity. But to gain a sense of right and wrong, it's simply a judgement. It's when you say:"so what?" after a statement is made. Different people will come up with different answer, because we are at different levels of conciousness.

Your judgement of what is right and wrong have no bearing on what actually is. If i throw a dart at a dartboard blindfolded, I might think I hit the mark, but I really missed it.

There must be a standard. Otherwise you wouldn't know that anything would be relative. You know something has moved when you compare it to something that is not moving. When you're in a car with a book, you and the book are moving at the same speed, therefore you don't notice that the book is going 70 MPH. You only realize that you're moving when you look at side and see your car passing the world by.

 

[qwerty mob]

.

Beliefs are unto mankind what an itchy anus is unto dogs...

A brief fascination, which feels good whilst one administers to it, but better once it's forgotten.



"Thanks for your 2 cents... want the change?"

 

[P. M. Thorne]

Q. M.

Surely that was not a reach for profundity.

 

[MarcAC]

Originally posted by Pakman
3. Why are women considered spirtually and physically inferior? Well, I know the answer to that, but I would like your opinion on it?

Jesus, the single most important figure in Christianity [without Jesus there is no Christianity], demonstrated throughout the reports of his life, that He did not support the notion of women being inferior, in status, to men.

 

[MacM]

answers,

Questions are the best way to attack a person's beliefs. Jesus asked more questions then He made statements, because He was attacking the beliefs of the Pharisees. Man even a child can attack a belief by using questions. You say the sun rises in the morning, the child replies 'why?' You say because it always has 'why?' the child replies again. You say because it is part of nature 'why?'.......... Questions are the easiest way to attack someones beliefs, and that is why I welcome them. Because I'm confident that my beliefs can stand up to even the hardest attacks.

Anyway it's 2:52pm and I need breakfast

CyA's

First let me simply state that I have christian firends. True believers but while I discount their belief entirely I respect their right to believe and they have mutually respected my right to believe they are being foolish.

Second this thread is far to long to read in its entireity, unless you are totally absorbed in this sort of thing, which I am not. So hopefully I am not duplicating other enteries that may have been made.

Saying your belief can stand up to the hardest of attacks in not the same as saying your belief is valid or true. If you cannot answer actual bonafide questions about your belief in God then your belief is hollow and your continued faith is not a sign of the correctness of your faith, it is a sign of your obstinance and inability to accept obvious flaws in the concept that you support.

Having said this understand the following is not an attck. It is a bonafide question. I await your critical answer, tht is an answer specifically to the issue not some wrap around double talk about it being a matter of faith, etc.

This question is based on the following assumptions:

1 - You claim your God is the creator of everything.

2 - Your God is omnipotent.

3 - Your God is all knowing.

TWO QUESTIONS:

If number one is true then you must agree that God not only had to create himself but created time and space as well. Otherwise he would not be the creator of everything and some other creator or creators, etc., would be required.

If God was the creator of time and space just where and how did he create himself before he created time and space and how could he have created time and space before he created himself?

Any scenario you propose results in Creation ex nihilo which doesn't require a God, so why add the middle man which still doesn't resolve the basic issue of origin of existance?

If you should have an acceptable answer to this question then and only then can we advance to the more esoteric questions steeming from #2 and #3.

 

[MacM]

icarl,

Even though God is infinite and we are finite,

ANS: I like this. Perhaps you should understand that "Infinite" is a concept and its definition precludes anything tangiable or in physical reality from being infinite. It is a matter not only of logic but of scientifc principles and specific definition of the term.

What you have just said is that "GOD is a CONCEPT but is NOT REAL". On that point we very much agree.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by MacM
What you have just said is that "GOD is a CONCEPT but is NOT REAL". On that point we very much agree.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

At the conceptual level of the god concept, how is the concept of "real" or "not real" even pertinent? God is moot, as you have aptly shown by framing the concept as a theoretical limit (like infinity) which cannot truly be fathomed.

I suppose christians would have you believe infinity exists.

The set of all sets includes all the cardinal numbers right?

Hmm, more random thoughts: So the space inside our minds is smaller than our skulls but bigger than the entire universe (since the set of all sets can only exist inside our minds)? It's obviously then, bigger than god right? I mean, god has to be included in that set right? God would be a subset of the set of all sets right? Meh.

Pardon.

Merry Christmas and stuff.

 

[MacM]

wesmorris,

Merry Christmas and stuff.

Ditto.


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