Originally posted by Cris
Muscleman,
That is hearsay, not evidence. You are claiming a scientific proof, the bible only makes assertions. If you want to use the bible as evidence then you need to show the validity of the bible. Show the scientific research and factual evidence used by the bible authors that would validate their claims.
This is explained by the theories of evolution. Catholicism supports evolution and I thought you were a catholic. Do you not agree with the teachings of Catholicism?
Then show me the proof. Making an assertion that there is proof is not proof.
That’s fine. The research is still in progress.
Atheists do not think God is lying. Atheists do not believe God exists so they have no interest in claiming that a non-existent thing is lying or not lying.
Good you are beginning to understand. You cannot then make a claim that everything complex and ordered must have been created by intelligence. You fail at the first test because you cannot show or KNOW that God (something complex and ordered) was created by an intelligence.
In the same way we do not know the origin of big bangs. It is OK to say that you/we don’t know something.
Personal belief is not proof unless you have a rational basis for your belief, i.e. proof, and you have none. You are admitting that you do not know if everything complex and ordered is created by an intelligence. You have admitted here that an originating process need not have been created. This means you cannot rule out the possibility that life began on earth by abiogenesis.
It is you that has claimed to have scientific proof for the existence of God. You are now admitting that you do not have any such proof. Attempting to show that other things do not have proofs do not in any way show that you do have a proof.
When something cannot be proved it does not mean that the claim is false, but just that we cannot claim that the topic is knowledge. If it cannot be proved then it may be true or false, we simply DO NOT KNOW without proof. Lack of evidence is not evidence of absence.
This lack of knowledge (proof) is applicable to the claim of abiogenesis as it is for the claim that a God exists. Neither can be claimed as truth at this time.
You have not shown any scientific proof that a god exists, you have only made assertions based on your religious beliefs.
Cris
Wow, Im impressed how something so simple can be very complicated to you guys.. Listen once again. "In the beggining was the WORD" in John, word being translated as "Knowledge" as respnsible for ordered and complex existence, again how is this claim scientific? It is scientific because of the fact that it can create ordered and complex existence proven by observation, study, and demonstration, in other words "science" got it? There are even claims that we can create a computer intelligence equal to humans, and im not sure if that was you that brought that out.
It is accepted by the church that things evolve,and if you call that evolution then evolution is a fact, I do believe in evolution, but evolution theory is just an assertion as well to the appearance of species being linked to other species, they indeed may came about from one species (as it is the claim) but then again scientifically speaking this have no proof that it changes from one species too another and indeed Jan is right, however, evolution in a sense that things evolve is a fact. But existing things evolve and that has nothing to do with creating things. My car engine may appear fresh, solid, silver, but over the pourse of time may evolve into rotten,stained, and fragile metal because of wind and gravity but then that doesnt meangravity and wind created my car (this analogy of an ordered and complex existence is applied bcuz the ordered and complex biology is the topic of argument).
LISTEN CRIS, EVERYTHING, EVERY-THING, GOT THAT? EVRYTHING OBSERVED THAT IS IN DETAIL, ORDER, AND FUNCTION REQUIRES INTELLIGENT CAUSE AS OBSERVED AND STUDIED (SCIENCE), FROM BIOLOGICAL TO TECHNOLOGICAL, AND I MEAN EVERYTHING, CELL REPRODUCE ITSELF, OR BY MEANS OF CLONING (BY SCIENTIST WITH INTELLIGENCE). EVEN TECHNOLOGICAL EXISTENCE REQUIRES INTELLIGENCE.(THIS IS IN PLANET EARTH WHERE WE BOTH LIVE
). IT IS A FACT THAT EVERYTHING ON EARTH REQUIRES INTELLIGENCE TO EXIST, EVEN REPRODUCTION OF BIOLOGICAL EXISTENCE REQUIRES INTELLIGENCE, WHETHER THE INTELLIGENCE IS AS GREAT AS OURS OR NOT, NEVERTHELES THE POINT IS IT NEEDS INTELLIGENCE.
NOW HOW CAN WE SAY THE SAME ABOUT GOD IF WE NEVER EVER HAVE OBSERVED, STUDIED HIM? DID YOU GET IT? IF U WANT TO ARGUE THAT THERE IS INTELLIGENCE BEHIND HIS INTELLIGENCE THEN FINE, THATS YOUR PERSONAL BELIEF, I AM IN NO SITUATION TO PROVE YOU WRONG BECAUSE I KNOW GOD EXIST BUT I DOONT KNOW HOW HE EXIST. HOWEVER, MY PERSONAL BELIEF IS NOTHING CAUSED HIM FOR THAT IS GOD'S CLAIM, AGAIN WHO AM I TO PROVE YOU WRONG ABOUT INTELLIGENCE BEHIND GOD WHEN I DONT KNOW, AND IN THE SAME WAY WHO R U TO TRY TO PROVE ME WRONG GOD HAS NO CAUSE WHEN U DONT KNOW AS WELL....
DID U GET IT? or r we gonna go in circles?