Crop circles

[kmguru]

What if there are other life forms that are involved?
What if the life forms are not humanoid?
What if some space child is doodling using a force pencil?
What if we have a non-corporeal life form that is begining to evolve?

I am surprised that how little imagination our sciforum members lately are displaying. This is not a forum to design system integration for Worldcom. OR CEO Cockpit for the Fortune 1000 companies so that our economy can get moving. (It has a place in another thread - I dont see that either)

This is the place to hangout - comeup with new ideas that may sound outlandish due to our present frame of reference. People still write science-fiction, from Jules Verne to HG wells - dont they?

Shame on you people, getting stuck in the present - and no imagination at all....

 

[MRC_Hans]

Its just that the world is so full of wonders, it seems a shame to waste time on invented wonders. I perfectly love fiction, and it can be as wild as it gets, but I dont like it to be presented as fact. I'm sure I'm boring, heheheh.

Oh, and I hope we meet aliens some day, but when(if) it happens, I hope they will make more sense than flattening crops.

Hans

 

[Thor]

They'll probably make less sense than a Frenchman on speed

 

[Fukushi]

It will remain a mystery!

'cause no-one has ever been accused or has been sued for the (already) millions of pounds and dollars of destroyed crop,

not ONE single farmer lying in the gras with his hunting-loaded-shooting-GUN has cauth any perpurtrator(s) in the act,...

No resonable guy would buy the story of dough and dave even after serious reasoning and debating and RESEARCH ,...
They supposedly admidded creating hundreds of circles over night: and in fact: when they where asked to form even a 'simple' pattern like a perfect circle: they failed even that,...

Remains: the strange phenomena who dwell besides the fact of the cirlcles: meaning: it's risen radiation levels, the bended crop (that now has been explained by stryder: but not yet proven out in the open by duplicators)

+ last but not least: all the symbols formed: represent the level of devellopment that the human race has attained throughout history and up until recent devellopments and revelations, yes even new inventions are depicted,....

This without even mentioning my intention of beign worldly famous for making these remarks on sciforums (ahem-ahem= choughing sarcastically) and ofcourse the arousing and invocation of: MASS-PANICKING of the people on these boards,...(and hopefully everyone who they come in contact with?)

Yes ofcourse you can and you may say bollocks! The inquisition also burned Galileo to death for a vision,....

But I would suggest: just keep an open eye like me: don't de-nounce but also not: declare!

Just facts people, just facts,...

Thx
:bugeye:

 

[Pine_net]

Now this is a crop circle!

 

[MRC_Hans]

Cool! I've had second thoughts about this. After all, a debate is a game, and why should I be confined to the boring, denouncing role? Of course it gives me the opportunity to flash my dazzling logic at everybody, still - - -

But I dont like the existing exotic theories. A theory should not be contradicted by 80% of the observations, it should be supported by most of the observations and preferably not contradicted by more than a few % (which can then be rejected as inaccurate, heheh).

Sooo: Some think that crop patterns (I call them patterns as not all involve circles) are natural phenomenon, others think they are made by aliens, but I say they are wrong: The crop patterns ARE the aliens! I'm not sure if each pattern is an individual, but time will shurely show.

After all, they show many characteristics of a life-form: They proliferate, they evolve, and they interact with their environment. But they are a parasitic life-form; not like Earth parasites that specialize in preying on a single species, no, these are pan-species parasites.

They prey primarily on plants, from which they draw their nurishment, and they can live from crop alone. Havent you noticed that fields everywhere often show irregular, semingly random patterns of flattened crop? We have been told that this is done by rain and wind, and surely enough they often appear after rain, but so do mushrooms. These patterns come when the alien parasites have only dumb plants to prey on, and they can get nurishment and survival from this.

But they can also prey on intelligence. For this, they lure humans into the fields, and, preying on the human's brains, they can evolve into more advanced things. This takes time, and we have only seen the beginning: The ever more complicated geometric shapes, but soon they will go further, and eventually, they will take over our planet and our minds!

Hans

 

[MRC_Hans]

Here's one too, but I suspect it was made by humans on their own accord:

---- how do you make the picture visible???

 

[Pine_net]

MRC_Hans,

Ummm... Evidence to back up those claims up would be interesting indeed.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Evidence? It is consistent with all the observed facts, that should be enough. Thats certainly better than most other theories for the things. -- Except the one about crop patterns being simply an advanced form of graffiti, but I've been told that's a boring theory.

Hans

 

[Pine_net]

It is consistent with all the observed facts

What I see as an observable fact and what you see as an observable fact vary greatly in detail. And what exactly are " all the observable facts?"

 

[Stryder]

MRC_Hans,

My explaination was about Radiation and it's ability to penetrate matter. It wasn't meant as explaining electrical charges and the usage of conductivity through freefloating electrons.

If you think it's all technical jargon, you find somewhere thats outputting the prize money for how they are truly formed and I'll make the equipment with that money because I could prove it 100% accurate.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Well, I'm sure you can bend stalks with microwaves because they will heat the stalks and then they can bend. But microwaves will destroy the cells, and the crop will die. In most crop circles made in immature crop, the crop recovers more or less and keeps growing.

Microwaves dont penetrate matter through interatomic voids because even the shortest microwaves are several orders of magnitude larger than atomic structures. How well electromagnetic waves penetrate a given object is almost entirely depentent on the conductivity of the object.

Btw, it doesnt take big funding or clever scientists to make a microwave crop-bender. All you need is to rip apart a microwave oven and connect it to a small motor generator. But I would advice against it; you could easily fry your toes, or worse, heheh.

Mmmm, Pine-net, I wont really try to argue my latest "theory". What I mean is that none of the observations that I have heard of will contradict it. It was just something I dreamed up while driving home yesterday. The idea was not to pull anybody's leg, however, my point is that you can dream up any wild theory and then say "you cant disprove this", but we must look at what is documented and what is probable.

Hans

 

[Coyote]

First of all I can't dismiss the possibility that at least some crop circles are not man made anymore than I can dismiss the possibility that alien life exists in the universe.

Simply put if we are the only intelligent life in the entire known universe, why did (insert deity of choice here) make the playground so unbelievably large? If a small galaxy can contain a few billion stars and the known universe say has billions of galaxies, then even if .0000001 percent of all the stars in the universe could possibly support an earth like planet and of those another fraction actually developed an intelligent life form, there is still an enormous amount of possible life out there. If you believe that we are part of some grand experiment then why put all of us on one somewhat obscure planet in middle of nowhere?

Even if a species eventually develops faster than light technology it would still take an enormous amount of time to explore even just one galaxy let alone visit others.

I have to agree with those who ask 'why the all the secrecy?' I don't know how many of these circles have been made during daylight hours, but from what I've read it seems only to happen late at night. Maybe our visitors are light sensitive? Space faring vampires maybe? Ok, you could argue that perhaps the technology used doesn't work as well when used thru the sunlight.

As for those who feel this all falls under the same conspiracy as UFO's and our governments, how is it that alien visitations are the only secrets they are capable of keeping for any length of time? Mankind needs its 15 minutes of fame? In all this time not one disgruntled employee hasn't spilled the beans? Not one piece of irrefutable piece of evidence has made it into the public eye?

It's not that I don't believe in alien life, I just don't believe we are that interesting for them to visit us, let alone hide themselves so well from view and play these mind games? It would seem to me if haven't figured out what they are trying to say that they would eventually tire of this method and land somewhere, get out and smack some sense into us.

 

[kmguru]

If you have 3 to 4 people, some ropes and a few long sticks, plus a few flat boards - which are the tools used for man made crop circles, how many hours it would take to make one like in the posting by Pine_Net?

Any one 's guess?

 

[Northwind]

Originally posted by kmguru
If you have 3 to 4 people, some ropes and a few long sticks, plus a few flat boards - which are the tools used for man made crop circles, how many hours it would take to make one like in the posting by Pine_Net?

Any one 's guess?

That picture is not a crop circle, it is a doctored picture.

 

[Fukushi]

microwaves are several orders of magnitude larger than atomic structures

my my, it seems to me you need to learn about microwaves!

That picture is not a crop circle, it is a doctored picture.

I bet you never even have seen one with your own eyes,....'cause if you would have seen one, you would know that you never could fake such a 'pattern' even if you had a whole week and all the personell that you wish for,....!!!

 

[Pine_net]

This is the link where I got my info about that crop circle that I posted. It seems it is not a fake, but I have never been there and have not taken direct readings.

Windmill Hill, nr Avebury, Wiltshire

Peace.

 

[LSatyl]

Originally posted by kmguru
If you have 3 to 4 people, some ropes and a few long sticks, plus a few flat boards - which are the tools used for man made crop circles, how many hours it would take to make one like in the posting by Pine_Net?

Any one 's guess?

I can do one better. I can *state*. Take the following crop circle:

The 21 circles were created by 6 persons in two nights. One night was spent marking the circles, the 2nd night for flattening the grain. Flattening the grain took about 6 hours. Mind you, this was the first circle the group made. The group used PVC pipes for the flattening. The farmer was, as he usually is, in on it.

The same group created two more crop circles, one was created at the behest of the VRT (Belgium broadcasting company) for a program called the Dream Factory.

This is the last one the group created:

This one was created, again in 2 nights, by 15 persons.

Unfortunately the accompanying articles are in Dutch. I have however translated the last paragraph of the article, read it and you'll know why:

"What I notice mostly, after creating 3 crop circles, is that the creators, whether they've created a cricle before or not, get such an enormous energy boost from that what has been done by teamspirit. Everyone walks around for days with their heads in the clouds. I think it is pure groupart. Perhaps that is what the believers feel when watching the circles."

Read more (in Dutch) on the Dutch skepsis site

 

[MRC_Hans]

OK, lets see:

The crop formation I have posted a picture of (you need to click the link, dont aska me why) took 16 hours (I dont know the number of people), and it was made in daylight as it was an advertising thing. It seems deceptively simple, but those letters constist of a LOT of arcs, angles and lines. Note also that two letters are not crossed by tramlines. What does this prove? Only that even VERY complex crop formations can be made by humans. Why are so many done at night? Well, without the air of mystery, how much publicity would they get?

Now, microwaves: That article is a curious mixture of honest tech talk, magic mumbo-jumbo, and conspiracy theory. Lets look at a few facts:

The article states that the frequency of a micro oven is 2.46 GHz, thats a wavelength of about 12cm (nearly 5 inches), hardly anything to interfere with molecules.

The article claims that microwaves work by moving the molecules creating friction, thats nonsense; the radio waves induce electric current in the food, which heats it by electric resistance.

The article talks about microwaves being AC based and sunlight being DC based --- thats basically nonsense, however its true that the energy in a microwave oven is narrow-band, as opposed to the broad-band sun radiation.

The article also states:

Radiation, as defined by physics terminology, is "the electromagnetic waves emitted by the atoms and molecules of a radioactive substance as a result of nuclear decay." Radiation causes ionization, which is what occurs when a neutral atom gains or loses electrons. In simpler terms, a microwave oven decays and changes the molecular structure of the food by the process of radiation. Had the manufacturers accurately called them "radiation ovens", it's doubtful they would have ever sold one, but that's exactly what a microwave oven is.

-- But this is directly wrong. Microwaves are not the same as ionizing radiation. Such radiation is on an entirely different wavelength (shorter) and energy level (higher).

The article cites some very strangely designed experiements to prove how harmful microwave ovens are. That is certainly not the normal way to conduct scientific experiements. I dont know if harmful effects exist or not, but if they could induce measureble changes in people's blood in a matter of days, heavy microwave users would be dying like flies by now --- and so would cell-phone users by the way.:bugeye:

I dont see it as an educational article, but an article by somebody with a crusade.

---- Guess all this is off-topic anyhow, sorry!

Hans

 

[kmguru]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans

The article claims that microwaves work by moving the molecules creating friction, thats nonsense; the radio waves induce electric current in the food, which heats it by electric resistance.

You may be right but...here is what the web encyclopedia says:

A microwave oven uses microwaves to heat food. Microwaves are radio waves. In the case of microwave ovens, the commonly used radio wave frequency is roughly 2,500 megahertz (2.5 gigahertz). Radio waves in this frequency range have an interesting property: they are absorbed by water, fats and sugars. When they are absorbed they are converted directly into atomic motion - heat. Microwaves in this frequency range have another interesting property: they are not absorbed by most plastics, glass or ceramics. Metal reflects microwaves, which is why metal pans do not work well in a microwave oven.

In microwave cooking, the radio waves penetrate the food and excite water and fat molecules pretty much evenly throughout the food. There is no "heat having to migrate toward the interior by conduction". There is heat everywhere all at once because the molecules are all excited together. There are limits of course. Radio waves penetrate unevenly in thick pieces of food (they don't make it all the way to the middle), and there are also "hot spots" caused by wave interference, but you get the idea. The whole heating process is different because you are "exciting atoms" rather than "conducting heat".

Link: http://www.howstuffworks.com/microwave.htm