Did Nothing Create Everything?

[SetiAlpha6]

No one here may see the evidence I presented as being scientific evidence for God, which would probably be impossible since the current scientific approach is limited, and must assume that God does not exist, before it can even function.

But I see it as evidence for God nonetheless, scientific worthy or not, and the consensus is building for that view. I regard it only as evidence, not proof!

The evidence at the Split Rock is only one smaller piece of a much larger puzzle that combines together to make a much stronger case for the existence of God.

Every individual puzzle piece can easily be discarded.

I personally find it much harder to discard the whole puzzle when it is completely assembled.

Put together, the puzzle components have a fairly long reach over time, linking previous events even in the Garden of Eden to the Exodus account, and also projecting forward in time about 1400 years into the future, as a symbol, a type, or a kind of shadow of the crucifixion of Christ.

If this is a grand deception, it would seem to me, like someone would have had to go to an awful lot of coordinated trouble over the several countries and various environments involved, to pull it all off.

Just my opinion, not wishing to insult or offend anyone.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

A d you know how I xaid I never lie..well sometimes I lie which really demonstrate that generally I dont lie.
Sometimes I lie to people that I think they are doing a good job for example so as not to hurt their feeling and to offer encouragement.
Alex

Yes, right! Because you love people and want the best for them! And you want to be a blessing to others!!!

How can we clone you?

 

[pluto2]

I just don't buy the "of course God exists argument".

From what I've seen I think that everything can be explained by science and even if God existed which I think that He simply doesn't then I think that this God could, and should theoretically, be explained by science as well.

Show me one thing that can't be explained by science and I bet you won't be able to find anything.

 

[Seattle]

Now if you put that together with your earlier conservative comment and perhaps add a few other complimentary superlatives I would have to admit that you know me as well as I know myself.


Of course you can I am a fountain of endless knowledge and my best quality is that I am never wrong.

God did speak to me once. He started by asking my advice on the best modeling clay and went on to say he had selected me to lead humans and provide guidance...I told him to bugger off do his job and get with the times and learn how to use carbon fiber.

Well I am joking ... as to most of it.

But I did have this odd experience once..And this is gospel...I really was convinced God was talking to me and as you can imagine being an atheist I really was surprised...And seriously this is how it happened I will sweare on the bible or cross my heart as I know this really sounds crazy...but I was preoccupied with my push gravity idea in those days...now what got to me was he did not speak in actual words or use any voice at all..but I just had this most extrodinary feeling like no other and like ideas flash through my mind like..all your life you have taken on a cause as the only supporter, you never give up, you only accept winning, no one else has the strength of character to overcome the objections of mainstream to demonstrate how the universe works... I was greatly shaken...I did not know what to do..I went for some time certainly convinced that it was God communicating with me..honestly I am not lieing I never lie..I can never forget my mother always telling her friends that she was so happy because I never told lies...so believe me it happened as I describe...a d believe me I thought about it and nothing else...In the end I rationalized that I was experiencing some delusion because I knew that there could be no God talking to me or rather putting thoughts into my head...
Maybe I am such a strong atheist because to accept there is a god would mean that I must promote push gravity and be called a rat bag but get the idea accepted .... I often wonder if I am indeed gods favorite...I mean I never lose, whatever I imagine actually happens and I I think about something that I want it arrives somehow...I will give you an example..I was in my real estate office with my Son one Monday, we were discussing things to help the office..now I am not a car person I don't care so long as it's trouble free running..but I said to my Son maybe I should get a Merc (the office deal with high end real estate and the clientele were impressed with the sorta stuff rich folk use to rank each other...wankers in my view..but we thought that it was probably worthwhile..that was Monday..on Tuesday a mate came in an older chap..the wisest man I have ever met I never did business with him but he would come to me for advice and friendship which I was happy to give..I really like helping people because I think I am lucky to have it all, I had good looks and the only problem I had with girls was too many threw themselves at me, ...anyways the old mate comes in and says come outside and look at my new Merc, so be shows me over takes me for a drive a d I certainly thought it looked great and was happy for him...then I said casually.. I was only saying yesterday that it would be a good idea to get a Merc..you know what they are like around here..he agreed and said it certainly would help my image for the market...the he says...why don't you take my old Merc you can have it for twenty grand...I said that's a great buy (it was as it was clearly worth thirty) ..but I dont have twenty grand and I don't want to use my credit because the business needs a back stop...he say look you take it and give me one hundred a week...And so that's what I mean about things coming to me...do you think I am just lucky or has God picked me out because I don't lie...people have always commented about my decency..like ..they had never met a real estate agent as we e t as me..so honest...do you think my honesty is rewarded...by God?
Maybe the devil is looking after me cause I am so anti God...
Maybe honesty and accepting personal responsibility and not being delusional is it's own reward.
Anyways if you ever need help just ask...it's like this van that I am in at the moment...one day I get the idea to build an observatory ..all the materials are given to me..And I think a van would be good..you know take my astronomy photos have a van to keep food in coffee a place to sleep...well a complete stranger heard how I had helped a friend of hers, she was a really attractive lady...anyways she gives me this van..it's old but heck I now have nearly finished the observatory (There are some photos in the astronomy section of the van and the observatory I am pretty sure)..And I am laying in the van right now while the .ca era clicks away having a nice green tea with lemon and ginger...
So I often say that I am blessed not realising or stopping to think what that actually means.
Anyways my friend I hope you are well and your family are well and your pets are well...a d here is a other thing ..this guy stole from me..he was a great mate who became addicted to heroine..he stole from everyone..but I would lay in bed think I g what I would do to him..I would imagine chaining him to the railway line and ,leave him with a blunt axe so he would have to cut his leg off to escape being run over by the train... well some months later another mate said..did you hear what happened to X he had bike accident and lost his leg...
Anyways just thinking about stuff.
Alex

Maybe God is real and you are his gift to women?
I assume Merc means Mercedes in your area. In my area it would have meant Mercury. Real estate agents do seem to like to drive Mercedes. I guess it's to show how successful they've been?

It's odd if you think about it as it really just shows that the client is paying for the agents luxury car and maybe commissions should be lowered.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

I just don't buy the "of course God exists argument".

From what I've seen I think that everything can be explained by science and even if God existed which I think that He simply doesn't then I think that this God could, and should theoretically, be explained by science as well.

Show me one thing that can't be explained by science and I bet you won't be able to find anything.

That is a very appropriate approach to the God question, in my opinion anyway!

I would offer that perhaps Science cannot yet explain existence itself.

It cannot explain the existence of life?

The more life is studied the more complex and unlikely it becomes. The mathematical probability has basically been zero for a long time now. And it is getting worse, the more we know. Regarding this, the estimate I have seen is that there are about 100 trillion atoms in each human cell. These are all arranged in specified order or design not in a random arrangement.

I don’t see how Science can even prove its own foundational premise.

I don’t see how it could ever prove a whole number of negatives. That the physical universe is all there is, for example. That God does not exist, etc.

Why there is something instead of nothing?

Is there any purpose to life?

What is morality based on, and who decides what the best morality format is for mankind?

You probably have heard of all of these many times before.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

That God does not exist, etc.

Science is not out to prove God, or whatever, does not exist.

Physical Laws are even only mathematical approximations of the physical universe that can change over time i.e. Newtonian Physics gave way to Relativity and Quantum Mechanics.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Science is not out to prove God, or whatever, does not exist.

Physical Laws are even only mathematical approximations of the physical universe that can change over time i.e. Newtonian Physics gave way to Relativity and Quantum Mechanics.

Yes, I need to study both Relativity and Quantum Mechanics some day! I only know enough to be dangerous.

 

[billvon]

It cannot explain the existence of life? The more life is studied the more complex and unlikely it becomes.

?? The opposite is true. The more we study life the more understandable it becomes, and the more we understand how it could have started.

The mathematical probability has basically been zero for a long time now. And it is getting worse, the more we know. Regarding this, the estimate I have seen is that there are about 100 trillion atoms in each human cell. These are all arranged in specified order or design not in a random arrangement.

Of course. They have been specified by the laws of physics.

I don’t see how Science can even prove its own foundational premise.

Which premise is that? That the nature of reality can be discerned by observation and through experiment? We've demonstrated that a million times. You are using a network based on that foundational premise being true over and over again.

Is there any purpose to life?

That's not a question for science. It is a human question, since "purpose" has no real scientific meaning.

What is morality based on, and who decides what the best morality format is for mankind?

Morality is based on what people want it to be. There are no "best" ones unless you define your goals for "best." Most offspring? Least violence?

 

[SetiAlpha6]

?? The opposite is true. The more we study life the more understandable it becomes, and the more we understand how it could have started.

Of course. They have been specified by the laws of physics.

Yes, we are understanding more all the time.

If we ever learn how to create life, with sophisticated laboratories, machines, and human intelligence, we will only prove that it takes intelligence to pull it off.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

How can we clone you

I don't know...we could go to a church and pray and see what happens or we could seek the help of science...oh yes science science can do that sort of stuff...

You sound grumpy today.

And here I am going to the trouble of showing how delusion can overtake even someone like me...but it's strange that the more God you add to the delusional mix the more onlookers will say you are crazy...that was my point.


And subtle perhaps too subtle.

And I do hope you can decide to be more cheerful today.

So far you have done a great job of proving the existence of rocks adding some delusion and made a decent attempt at appearing crazy.

Well done.

Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Maybe God is real and you are his gift to women?

I don't think I would be the only successful male to find them lining up ...so no God in the mix...

I assume Merc means Mercedes in your area. In my area it would have meant Mercury. Real estate agents do seem to like to drive Mercedes. I guess it's to show how successful they've been?

Yes. And here was me thinking that good service, keeping promises, being decent were good virtues and all I needed was a flash car...

It's odd if you think about it as it really just shows that the client is paying for the agents luxury car and maybe commissions should be lowered

You know that's what I always thought but in real estate you see many crazy things...one thing..if someone sprouted god this and god that and then would say we dont need any paper work...run away.
One extreme case..I was seeking a listing..the guy fitted that bill...you have my word etc..I drove past the house next morning to see another agent's sign ... what BS if he didn't like me etc why lie that the listing was mine ... probably because I didn't have a Merc...which I gave back after two weeks I felt like a hypocrite was all...And the response from close friends ..you could feel the envy and them drifting away.

In most cases a real estate agent makes real money from buying and selling which I never did while in the business because I saw it as a conflict of interest...it's like all things generally you need money to make money I never had a big bank roll and had trouble keeping the doors open in a market down turn whereas the guys who bought and sold did better in a squeeze cause to sell you had to take what was offered...

God should do something about all the folk who use his name to con people...I wonder why he does nothing..pastors with private jets...etc.
Alex

 

[Seattle]

I don't think I would be the only successful male to find them lining up ...so no God in the mix...

Yes. And here was me thinking that good service, keeping promises, being decent were good virtues and all I needed was a flash car...

You know that's what I always thought but in real estate you see many crazy things...one thing..if someone sprouted god this and god that and then would say we dont need any paper work...run away.
One extreme case..I was seeking a listing..the guy fitted that bill...you have my word etc..I drove past the house next morning to see another agent's sign ... what BS if he didn't like me etc why lie that the listing was mine ... probably because I didn't have a Merc...which I gave back after two weeks I felt like a hypocrite was all...And the response from close friends ..you could feel the envy and them drifting away.

In most cases a real estate agent makes real money from buying and selling which I never did while in the business because I saw it as a conflict of interest...it's like all things generally you need money to make money I never had a big bank roll and had trouble keeping the doors open in a market down turn whereas the guys who bought and sold did better in a squeeze cause to sell you had to take what was offered...

God should do something about all the folk who use his name to con people...I wonder why he does nothing..pastors with private jets...etc.
Alex

That's the beauty of the God business. When you know he doesn't exist, you can flog it for all it's worth.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Yes, we are understanding more all the time.

I don't know...we could go to a church and pray and see what happens or we could seek the help of science...oh yes science science can do that sort of stuff...

You sound grumpy today.

And here I am going to the trouble of showing how delusion can overtake even someone like me...but it's strange that the more God you add to the delusional mix the more onlookers will say you are crazy...that was my point.


And subtle perhaps too subtle.

And I do hope you can decide to be more cheerful today.

So far you have done a great job of proving the existence of rocks adding some delusion and made a decent attempt at appearing crazy.

Well done.

Alex

Sorry, I was not kidding when I said...

“Because you love people and want the best for them! And you want to be a blessing to others!!!”

I really think that is the real you, from what I can see anyway.

Sorry, I am not trying to be grumpy.

I just appreciate hearing your point of view!

 

[SetiAlpha6]

God should do something about all the folk who use his name to con people...I wonder why he does nothing..pastors with private jets...etc.
Alex

I agree!

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Sorry, I am not trying to be grumpy.

There is no need to apologise I was concerned for you and was hoping to snap you out of it.

Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

And Seti
I...I do like the way you in effect turn the other cheek when I attempt to stir you up...where did you learn that?
Alex

 

[SetiAlpha6]

And Seti
I...I do like the way you in effect turn the other cheek when I attempt to stir you up...where did you learn that?
Alex

Thank You Alex!

This has nothing to do with you or anyone here...
You have been great!!!

But a few years ago I decided I would “attempt” to refuse to be offended. And I often fail at it, but at least I try. Perhaps it is a simple idea, but it helps me to have peace in my heart. It really means I am forced to forgive others immediately, on the spot. And when I am actually able to do that, I don’t have to think, and stew on it day after day. And of course, I absolutely 100% need forgiveness every single day myself from others around me! In case you haven’t noticed, I say stupid, even hurtful, things sometimes!

Again, it has nothing to do with you or anyone here, because everyone here has been great!!! No one here needs to be forgiven by me for any personal offense in any way.

I also understand how my faith appears to others, especially when so much evil and stupidity is performed under its name.

And you know who my Boss is.

 

[kx000]

Nothingness is the absence of both light and dark, neither good nor evil.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Nothingness is the absence of both light and dark, neither good nor evil.

When the Sun sets in the saucer of milk the cat will sing to the cuckoo clock.
Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

But a few years ago I decided I would “attempt” to refuse to be offended

Attempt??? Try??? Don't build failure into your decisions with any concession that you will not succeed...do or die...

Nevertheless you have made a good choice.

I wonder if forgiveness is the word that fits the bill.
I think to forgive someone they need to understand their wrong and seek forgiveness.
I have thought long and hard as they say and feel "overlook" is the word most appropriate...it avoids judgement...thing only become a product of your judgement..most times you don't have call something good or bad ..it just is.
That should stir up comment..it has in the past.

And an approach that I build into the sort of situation that calls for overlooking the other person problem is to remember to some degree folk follow certain roles such if you find them insulting perhaps is to realise that it the way they follow their script..it's not personal as they would be insulting irrespective of who is before them and so you can realise it is nothing personal as you cope it simply because you are in front of them.

I also understand how my faith appears to others, especially when so much evil and stupidity is performed under its name.

Yes you will get the hurt inflicted by generalisation...if one is a con man they all are sort of thing...but how others view you I suspect that no you don't get that part... I regard you as perhaps decent but ignorant of the basics of evidence whereas I am confident you think you know what is evidence... As I said read Karl Popper in wiki and even say look up evidence in civil law as well as evidence in criminal law... You can't drop a bundle on the table and say here it is you must link this with that and that with this ...
And I am not trying to put you down as I would not attempt to do that...I would like to see you grow and become better informed ...for your good.
And what a wonderful thing to be able to do..educate yourself and pas on what you learn to your children so they meet the world knowing stuff at 18 that you are only now realising even exists.

How nice to arm your children with an understanding of how evidence works or what science says or does not say so they won't be conned to take out a loan to finance some lieing scoundrel into his second or third jet so he can spread the word faster.

Have a great day and learn one small fact about something of no interest or benefit to you each and every day.

Sorry for breaking the rules and preaching I only wish to help.
Alex