Does the west view Islam as enemy ?

[DoctorNO]

It says to fight with physical force, no matter what happens, against injustice and aggression. This is unique to Islam.

Dont you see the problem there? When does a PERCIEVED "injustice" and "aggression" becomes deserving of physical force? And by whom and to whom? A couple of lawless pagans insults a muslim and the whole horde descends on the pagan populace? (as in the case of Mohammad's wars). What are the limits?

Such problems are indeed unique to Islam. :bugeye:

 

[path]

I think Paula put it best, but the problem is Islam as a theology is inseparable from Islam as a system of government. Christianity and Judaism (don't know enough about other religions to comment) never had this as part of doctrine. That combination just begs to be abused.

 

[everneo]

Dont you see the problem there? When does a PERCIEVED "injustice" and "aggression" becomes deserving of physical force? And by whom and to whom?

As I said earlier, the 'injustice' and 'aggression' were supposed to be opposed by the mujahideen in Afghanistan against the Soviets by their religion and this served well for the West. The west went along with the resisting forces aka mujahideen. They provided mujahideen with logistics and weapons and praised the jihad as the truly holy war against the atheist soviets. A purely political struggle dyed with religious overtones was a powerful weapon for the west then. Until it is directed against them. Which is the logical conclusion from muslim perspective. West failed to realise that they are playing with a double edged sword called religious obligation - jihad. The west also failed to realise that this jihad can be initiated by any mullah / sheikh, for whatever reason, against the west playing by their own coin. Villifying and punishing ordinary muslims for actions of jihadis with non-religious political agenda comes from the ignorance that muslims were able to get out of the false jihads. Ironically, the ordinary muslims are also hapless victims not able to differentiate, atleast openly, between a religious war and political war that has nothing to do with religion. Continued punishing of them with B-12 bombers and heavy armour/artillery and sanctions would ultimately push them to jump into jihad bandwagon. Use discretion, isolate and expose the bad apples different from the genuine grievers.

A couple of lawless pagans insults a muslim and the whole horde descends on the pagan populace? (as in the case of Mohammad's wars). What are the limits?

I don't understand which one you are mentioning.? is it those wars with meccans by mohammed.?

 

[Rappaccini]

I'm sorry if this offends you, Proud Muslim, but, yes, I think the West does generally view the Islamic Middle-eastern states as enemy states.

I have to admit, I have a very hard time not doing so myself.

 

[spidergoat]

FYI:
ATTENTION ALL MALE ARAB & MUSLIM IMMIGRANTS, STUDENTS & TOURISTS:
If you have not yet reported for mandatory interrogation and cataloguing by the Immigration & Naturalization Service, you may now opt instead to plead your innocence by registering with the Department of Homeland Security over the Internet.

http://www.whitehouse.org/homeland/arab-registration.asp

 

[Proud_Muslim]

I have many Muslim friends and acquaintances - both practicing and non practicing
they are all good people, even if we disagree about Iraq or Israel (some, not all)... but you, PM, are a fanatic

Thank you, we have a proverb in Syria which goes:

''If someone with less education and less knowldge insulted you then it is a certificate of excellence ''

and unfortunately, there are people even more fanatic than you... they make it look like Islam is the dynamite religion.
they're the ones i'm afraid of and they're the ones i want dead

How about Ariel Sharon and the illegal jewish thieves ( settlers ), dont you want to see them dead as well ??

 

[Proud_Muslim]

PM, dear dear PM, the punishment was to stone a woman to death. So to be proud of the punishment would also mean that you are proud that the woman be stoned to death. Do you see the connection between the two?

You did not get it !! the punishment works as deterent, no one will be stoned, to build a case against her is nearly impossible ( the 4 witnesses ).

 

[Proud_Muslim]

1. Because Islam teaches people to enslave people under the rule of Islam. To make dhimmies out of non-muslims under islamic rule.

2. Because Islam teaches people to react violently to every percieved "injustice".

3. Because in #2 Islam teaches people to kill and be killed.

Because you are LIAR, I need to expose your lies:

The Noble Quran:

2:256 There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing.

16:82 But if they turn away from you, (O Prophet remember that) your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message (entrusted to you).

6:107 Yet if God had so willed, they would not have ascribed Divinity to aught besides him; hence, We have not made you their keeper, nor are you (of your own choice) a guardian over them.

4:79, 80 (Say to everyone of them,) 'Whatever good betides you is from God and whatever evil betides you is from your own self and that We have (O Prophet) sent you to mankind only as a messenger and all sufficing is God as witness. Whoso obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys God. And for those who turn away, We have not sent you as a keeper."

11:28 (Noah to his people) He (Noah) said "O my people! think over it! If 1 act upon a clear direction from my Lord who has bestowed on me from Himself the Merciful talent of seeing the right way, a way which you cannot see for yourself, does it follow that we can force you to take the right path when you definitely decline to take it?°

17:53, 54 And tell my servants that they should speak in a most kindly manner (unto those who do not share their beliefs). Verily, Satan is always ready to stir up discord between men; for verily; Satan is mans foe .... Hence, We have not sent you (Unto men O Prophet) with power to determine their Faith.

21:107 to 109 (O Prophet?) 'We have not sent you except to be a mercy to all mankind:" Declare, "Verily, what is revealed to me is this, your God is the only One God, so is it not up to you to bow down to Him?' But if they turn away then say, "I have delivered the Truth in a manner clear to one and all, and I know not whether the promised hour (of Judgment) is near or far."

22:67 To every people have We appointed ceremonial rites (of prayer) which they observe; therefore, let them not wrangle over this matter with you, but bid them to turn to your Lord (since that is the main objective of religion). You indeed are rightly guided. But if they still dispute you in this matter, (then say,) `God best knows (the value of) what you do."

88:21, 22; also see 24:54 And so, (O Prophet!) exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe.

48:28 He it is Who has sent forth His Messenger with the (task of spreading) Guidance and the Religion of Truth, to the end that tie make it prevail over every (false) religion, and none can bear witness to the Truth as God does.

36:16, 17 (Three Messengers to their people)Said (the Messengers), "Our Sustainer knows that we have indeed been sent unto you, but we are not bound to more than clearly deliver the Message entrusted to us.'

39:41 Assuredly, We have sent down the Book to you in right form for the good of man. Whoso guided himself by it does so to his own advantage, and whoso turns away from it does so at his own loss. You certainly are not their keeper.

42:6, 48 And whoso takes for patrons others besides God, over them does God keep a watch. Mark, you are not a keeper over them. But if they turn aside from you (do not get disheartened), for We have not sent you to be a keeper over them; your task is but to preach ....

64:12 Obey God then and obey the Messenger, but if you turn away (no blame shall attach to our Messenger), for the duty of Our Messenger is just to deliver the message.

67:25, 26 And they ask, "When shall the promise be fulfilled if you speak the Truth?" Say, "The knowledge of it is verily with God alone, and verily I am but a plain warner."

60:8 Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.

60:9 Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.

The teachings of the Prophet on how you and I should treat our Non-Muslim friends and neighbours on a day to day basis as well as how to government should treat a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state.

"He who believes in God and the Last Day should honour his guest, should not harm his neighbour, should speak good or keep quiet." (Bukhari, Muslim)

"Whoever hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys God." (Bukhari)

"He who hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state, I am his adversary, and I shall be his adversary on the Day of a Judgement." (Bukhari)

"Beware on the Day of Judgement; I shall mysefl be complainant against him who wrongs a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state or lays on him a responsibility greater than he can bear or deprives him of anything that belongs to him." (Al-Mawardi)

"Anyone who kills a Non-Muslim who had become our ally will not smell the fragrance of Paradise." (Bukhari)

 

[Bells]

You did not get it !! the punishment works as deterent, no one will be stoned, to build a case against her is nearly impossible ( the 4 witnesses ).

Alas it is you who does not get it. I understand that she was acquitted on her second appeal for the very reason that there were not 4 witnesses and that her confession had been coerced. However what you refuse to even consider is how even without 4 witnesses and the fact that the court had been presented with evidence pertaining to her coerced confession, that she had been found guilty in the first instance. The father of the child was acquitted on the very grounds that there weren't 4 witnesses, yet in the first trial she was convicted.

No punishment can ever be a deterrent. The death penalty in the US is meant to be a deterrent, yet look at the amount of people on death row in the US, therefore showing that the death penalty does not work as a deterrent. You have claimed this legal system as being superior to others. I'm merely trying to point out to you that it is not. It is just as bad as other legal systems around the world. Had it been a truly superior legal system PM, she would have been acquitted at her first trial because of the fact that there weren't 4 witnesses and because of the fact that her confession was coerced. Instead she is found guilty and sentenced to death by stoning, while the baby's father is acquitted at his first trial.

You claim that the case built against her was impossible, and yes I agree it was. But can you please tell me why she was not acquitted in her first trial, seeing that the case against her was impossible? Why was she not acquitted at her first appeal because of the lack of evidence and because of the coerced confession? Why did it even get to a second appeal? This woman should have been acquitted along with the baby's father at the initial trial because there was no case against her. Instead she was found guilty and sentenced to death by stoning. Her first appeal was rejected and it was only in the second appeal that the single sitting judge had enough sense to realise that there was no case against her because of the lack of witnesses to the so called crime and because her confession had been coerced.

Sharia Law is not superior PM. This poor woman's case is evidence enough of that fact. It is just as corrupt and biased as any legal system on this planet.

 

[DoctorNO]

Because you are LIAR, I need to expose your lies:

The Noble Quran:

2:256 There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing.

Lets talk about that in another thread shall we? I shall call it "Is there compulsin in Islam?"

 

[Al hussein]

And what causes violent Islamic extremism? Is it just the person? How come violent extremism is rare with buddhists, hindus, jews & christians, but common with muslims?

It is Islam.

many religions buddhist hindus cristians etc are not attacked so as for them to fight back, the west attacked the muslims by suppling arms to israel to kill innocent palstinians
MUSLIMS ARE PROTECTING THEMSELVES AND U GUYS SAY THEY ARE TERRORISTS :bugeye:

 

[StarOfEight]

Yeah, I do.

Two Trade Center attacks, the barracks and the embassy in Beirut, the embassy in Tehran, Achille Lauro, the barracks in Khobar Towers, Pan Am Flight 103, the U.S.S. Cole ... I believe most Muslims are peaceful, decent people. I also believe that the fundamentalists have these peaceful, decent people by the balls. And I know, P_M, it's all America's fault and it's all Israel's fault, and glory to God, and so on and so forth.

Oh, and the fact that pretty much every predominantly Muslim country is a shithole doesn't help your cause. Israel treats the Palestinians the same way the majority of Arab countries treat their citizens.

 

[Al hussein]

Yeah, I do.

Two Trade Center attacks, the barracks and the embassy in Beirut, the embassy in Tehran, Achille Lauro, the barracks in Khobar Towers, Pan Am Flight 103, the U.S.S. Cole ... I believe most Muslims are peaceful, decent people. I also believe that the fundamentalists have these peaceful, decent people by the balls. And I know, P_M, it's all America's fault and it's all Israel's fault, and glory to God, and so on and so forth.

Oh, and the fact that pretty much every predominantly Muslim country is a shithole doesn't help your cause. Israel treats the Palestinians the same way the majority of Arab countries treat their citizens.

First of all the media tells the people that all these attacks were done by muslims and every body just blindly belive in it i m sure u got no proof for this nonsense claims always against the muslims

 

[Bells]

So the attacks were by Buddhist fundamentalists?

Hussein (Is that you PM?), everyone knows that the terror attacks were by Islamic fundamentalists and that these fundamentalists do not represent the greater members of Islam. The fact that they are Muslim should not be seen as a free grant to see all Muslims in the same way. The high majority of Muslims are appalled by the actions of the Islamic fundamentalists. Some are terrorist, and the majority are not. Some Christians are also terrorists, and again, the majority are not. The same can be said for every single group on this planet. You will always have some who are fundamentalists and others who are not. The actions of those few do not represent the views of the whole.

 

[Al hussein]

Yeah, I do.

Two Trade Center attacks, the barracks and the embassy in Beirut, the embassy in Tehran, Achille Lauro, the barracks in Khobar Towers, Pan Am Flight 103, the U.S.S. Cole ... I believe most Muslims are peaceful, decent people. I also believe that the fundamentalists have these peaceful, decent people by the balls. And I know, P_M, it's all America's fault and it's all Israel's fault, and glory to God, and so on and so forth.

Oh, and the fact that pretty much every predominantly Muslim country is a shithole doesn't help your cause. Israel treats the Palestinians the same way the majority of Arab countries treat their citizens.

Arab countries dont kill the infants of their citizens , the dont keep tanks that patrol the cities , they dont send military helicopters to attack residential areas
AND GUESS WHAT THIS IS HOW THE ISREAILIS TREAT THE PALSTINIANS :bugeye:

 

[Bells]

Arab countries dont kill the infants of their citizens , the dont keep tanks that patrol the cities , they dont send military helicopters to attack residential areas
AND GUESS WHAT THIS IS HOW THE ISREAILIS TREAT THE PALSTINIANS :bugeye:

Ermm you've forgotten about what Saddam did to the Kurds for starters. No one is condoning the actions of Isreal. But Arab states are not innocent either, nor are most States in the West innocent of committing atrocities.

 

[Al hussein]

Dont you see the problem there? When does a PERCIEVED "injustice" and "aggression" becomes deserving of physical force? And by whom and to whom? A couple of lawless pagans insults a muslim and the whole horde descends on the pagan populace? (as in the case of Mohammad's wars). What are the limits?

Such problems are indeed unique to Islam. :bugeye:

yOU FIRST LEARN ISLAMIC HISTORY AND THEN COME TO CHALLENGE THE MUSLIMS ,AND REPLY ME BY SAYING WHO WERE THE PAGANS THEAT INSULTED THE MUSLIMS ,THIS IS SOO LIKE U PPL JUDGING WITHOUT KNOWING

 

[Al hussein]

Ermm you've forgotten about what Saddam did to the Kurds for starters. No one is condoning the actions of Isreal. But Arab states are not innocent either, nor are most States in the West innocent of committing atrocities.

Saddam wasent a muslim he was a bad person no muslim likes him
i m sad that the iraqis didnt over throw him just like the iranis over threw shah reza pahallavi .Come to see the prisoners abuse in iraq reminds them of the cruel reign of saddam

 

[Al hussein]

So the attacks were by Buddhist fundamentalists?

Hussein (Is that you PM?), everyone knows that the terror attacks were by Islamic fundamentalists and that these fundamentalists do not represent the greater members of Islam. The fact that they are Muslim should not be seen as a free grant to see all Muslims in the same way. The high majority of Muslims are appalled by the actions of the Islamic fundamentalists. Some are terrorist, and the majority are not. Some Christians are also terrorists, and again, the majority are not. The same can be said for every single group on this planet. You will always have some who are fundamentalists and others who are not. The actions of those few do not represent the views of the whole.

At ur own point Some are terrorist, and the majority are not in all religions is true then why the media mostly going against the muslims, i never heard them saying "jew terrosist attack innocent palstinians" which they always do.



i am not PM But a PROUD MUSLIM

 

[spidergoat]

Jewish terror attacks on Palestinians are rare, but they do happen from time to time. It has happened when private citizens try to take the law into their own hands, usually very religious settlers. The Israeli army might go after militants, and kill innocent people accidently, but terror is never the objective.

So, does the west view Islam as the enemy? No, I think it is seen with suspicion, but there are American muslims, too, and we can't be enemies with them. If Islam separated its religious nature from its political nature, you would see that it's the politics the west objects to.