Ethical Behavior?

[milkweed]

OK after re-reading the article, this seems to be the same nursing home that was refered to during some very emotional news conferences by the mayor of this place (I believe) where mom was calling a son who worked for st. bernards parrish. And mom died on the friday after the hurricane.

Now what I dont know yet is if the residents themselves were offered the opportunity to leave when the evacuation offers were made to the nursing home owners. As I understand it, people do not give up these options (free choice) when they are signed into a nursing home. If the owners of this nursing home denied the residents the choice of "do you want to stay here, or evacute" in a reasonable manner, I would have to say again, they are responsible for the deaths of the people here.

Damn I hate the idea of getting old and infirm.

 

[Baron Max]

If the owners of this nursing home denied the residents the choice of "do you want to stay here, or evacute" in a reasonable manner, I would have to say again, they are responsible for the deaths of the people here.

Well, I think your idealism is clouding your better judgement! Most, the greater majority, of nursing home residents don't even know who they are or where they are or what's going on around them. To even think that they could make such monumental decisions for themselves is naive and, I must say, probably ignorant. See how idealism just don't work when reality is considered into the equation?

Damn I hate the idea of getting old and infirm.

"Old age is the ultimate cruelty. Nothing good can be said of it. We so-called 'healthy' ones know the pain and frustrations of having the wants and desires of a still-sharp mind trapped inside an eggshell of a body that is rotting to death, inside and out."

From "Wolf Pass" by Steve Thayer


Baron Max, gettin' mighty old himself! ;=)

 

[milkweed]

Most, the greater majority, of nursing home residents don't even know who they are or where they are or what's going on around them. To even think that they could make such monumental decisions for themselves is naive and, I must say, probably ignorant. See how idealism just don't work when reality is considered into the equation?



"Old age is the ultimate cruelty. Nothing good can be said of it. We so-called 'healthy' ones know the pain and frustrations of having the wants and desires of a still-sharp mind trapped inside an eggshell of a body that is rotting to death, inside and out."

From "Wolf Pass" by Steve Thayer


Baron Max, gettin' mighty old himself! ;=)

Well Baron Max here is where we part views (again). I do not think the majority of those in nursing homes suffer from demetia, nor other handicaps in their reasoning abilities. In my view, most persons in a nursing home are suffering from physical effects of old age which make living on their own more of a struggle than their tired bodies can endure.

 

[Baron Max]

I do not think the majority of those in nursing homes suffer from demetia, nor other handicaps in their reasoning abilities. In my view, most persons in a nursing home are suffering from physical effects of old age which make living on their own more of a struggle than their tired bodies can endure.

I think ye're talking about "retirement homes" or "homes for the elderly", rather than "nursing homes". Note the emphasis on NURSING? And if you don't think there's a difference, go to a nursing home ...maybe they'll let you clean the bedpanes and wipe the residents' ass!

But, hey, it don't matter ....those old bastards were thrown away by their families anyway ...if their families don't care, why should any of us care?

Baron Max

 

[Asguard]

what about patents who dont HAVE familys?

 

[Bells]

Prince_James

Yes, I would. They ought to have attempted any and all efforts to get out of there, including calling up their family, or a private taxi or bus, or even just bugging the Hell out of the nursing staff. Supposing they did everything in their power, then they are not at fault, no.

You do realise why people are put in nursing homes don't you? Because they are unable to care for themselves. Ergo, I find it astounding that you would expect elderly, sick, frail and incapacitated people to be able to organise their own evacuation when most of them probably can't even feed themselves.

ReighnStorm

They did make the decision but they also called the relatives or what have you of the people in their care. What they told them or how they explained the situation to them somewhat made the decision for the relatives not to come and pick up their kinfolk. Who knows, the kinfolk may have decided to ride out the storm themselves and were convinced by the health providers that the patients were safer with them.

This is what saddened me with this story. The families were called and told that their loved ones would not be evacuated. I would like to know how many of these relatives evacuated themselves. And maybe you're right, maybe some of them did decide to stay and ride out the storm themselves. Of the six or so families who actually did come and evacuate their relatives out of the nursing home when they realised that the home was going to leave them there, kudos to them because their actions probably saved the lives of their loved ones. As for the others, all I can say is that I hope they will be prevented from seeking any financial gains through legal recourse against the home and their insurers, because they do not deserve it.

milkweed

I do not think the majority of those in nursing homes suffer from demetia, nor other handicaps in their reasoning abilities. In my view, most persons in a nursing home are suffering from physical effects of old age which make living on their own more of a struggle than their tired bodies can endure.

Riiiggghhhhttttt...

And they're placed in these nursing homes because they're like holiday resorts?

Have you ever even been to a nursing home? Not a retirement home mind you, but an actual nursing home? As Baron pointed out to you, they aren't called 'nursing homes' for any other reason.

The patients.. yes that's right, the people who are placed there are patients.. are not just old. They are incapacitated and unable to care for even their most basic needs. Some of them might not be so old and are placed in these nursing homes because of disabilities so severe that they need constant care and nursing. Nursing homes aren't just for old people, but also for those so incapacitated and disabled that they need the care of medical staff.

 

[Prince_James]

Bells:

I ask only of them which they are capable of doing. If they could do none of those things, they are not at fault. If they could do some but chose not to, then they are.

 

[milkweed]

Baron Max and Bells:

As I said, "I do not think the majority of those in nursing homes suffer from demetia, nor other handicaps in their reasoning abilities."

Healing up from a broken hip does not diminish the ability of a person to make reasoned and informed decisions on whether or not they should be evacuated in a hurricane situation. Lots of physical ailments can land you in a wheelchair or hospital bed that do not have any effect on your reasoning ability to make a choice in these kinds of situations. Simply because you need help being fed or washed or to use the bathroom does not mean your incapable of knowing a situation is bad. Now I am not saying 100% of those people were capable of making this choice the fact is 100% of them were denied that choice by the owners of this place.

From this article http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...trib/nursinghomegambledresidentspaidtheprice:
Like every nursing home in this part of Louisiana, St. Rita's was required to submit an updated evacuation plan every year. Larry Ingargiola, the director of the St. Bernard Parish office of emergency preparedness, said that he approved St. Rita's plan this year and that it would have worked if the Manganos had followed it.

But in a part of the country where hurricanes regularly threaten the coast, and fizzle more often than pummel, complacency can creep in. And for nursing homes, evacuations themselves carry risk. Also, because the homes bear the costs of transporting and providing for their patients, evacuations are a blow to small, family-run businesses like St. Rita's.

From another article.
"You've got 35 people floating in your place and you're riding around in a boat," Gallodoro said, using the official estimate at that time. "You didn't want to evacuate them because you might lose two or three, but now you've lost 35."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...y?page=1&cset=true&ctrack=1&coll=chi-news-hed