Evolution Is Just An Emergent Property Of the Action Of Consciousness

Write4U said:
I believe Descartes did think outside the box when he proposed a "brain in a vat"......:D

What box are you talking about that we need to think outside of? Can we start with that?
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Descartes could not have "known" that (altought Laplace was able to imagine that there could be Black Holes out there... so he was really a genius), but the start is straigthforward : Atoms.
"The box" or "prison", is made of atoms.
 
Dicart said:
Descartes could not have "known" that (altought Laplace was able to imagine that there could be Black Holes out there... so he was really a genius), but the start is straigthforward : Atoms.
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Bingo!
"The box" or "prison", is made of atoms.
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And what do atoms have to do with evolution? Atoms don't evolve. They have finished evolving into the table of elements. No thoughts there.

Natural selection is causal to evolution. That's the Law. "Evolution by natural selection"i.e.
That which survives!

There is no thought involved in Evolution. That is a religious perspective and not scientific.

Thoughts are an emergent property of evolution.
 
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Write4U said:
Naaaah....that was a vat! That just held his brain, but did not provide his thoughts, nor did it cause Evolution.
Thoughts are an emergent product of evolution.
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So you are saying that you don't understand the simple colloquial verbiage of Thinking Outside the Box?
 
Steve Klinko said:
So you are saying that you don't understand the simple colloquial verbiage of Thinking Outside the Box?
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No you don't know where that applies.
This may set you straight.

Neutral Theory: The Null Hypothesis of Molecular Evolution
By: Laurent Duret, Ph.D. (Laboratoire de Biométrie et Biologie Évolutive, Université Claude Bernard, France. ) © 2008 Nature Education
In the decades since its introduction, the neutral theory of evolution has become central to the study of evolution at the molecular level, in part because it provides a way to make strong predictions that can be tested against actual data.
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The neutral theory holds that most variation at the molecular level does not affect fitness and, therefore, the evolutionary fate of genetic variation is best explained by stochastic processes. This theory also presents a framework for ongoing exploration of two areas of research: biased gene conversion, and the impact of effective population size on the effective neutrality of genetic variants.
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https://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/neutral-theory-the-null-hypothesis-of-molecular-839/

But that pertains only to living organisms. Universal evolution is a stochastic mathematical process of self-ordering complexity of values via mathematical functions.
 
Write4U said:
Bingo!
And what do atoms have to do with evolution? Atoms don't evolve. They have finished evolving into the table of elements. No thoughts there.

Natural selection is causal to evolution. That's the Law. "Evolution by natural selection"i.e.
That which survives!

There is no thought involved in Evolution. That is a religious perspective and not scientific.

Thoughts are an emergent property of evolution.
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The thought is manifested through the Billions and possibly Trillions of Life Entities that have acted because of their own internal Desires and Conscious Experiences to Survive, Procreate, and Eat. Fear, Sex, and Hunger are Conscious Experiences that exist in primitive Conscious Minds (as well as in Humans Minds today). These Experiences are Desires that are Consciously Felt or Experienced in the earliest possible Life Forms. These Desires are not Intelligent but very Primitive. Yet, these Desires can have profound effects on the Survivability of an Animal or even a Species. Conscious Experience of these Desires can be said to direct Evolution at a very Primitive level, not at any Intelligent level. The point is that Consciousness itself (although at a Primitive level) has an effect on Evolution. Evolution is not as Mindless as the Scientific literature claims. The Evolutionary Literature is due for a big update with regard to Consciousness.
 
Steve Klinko said:
The thought is manifested through the Billions and possibly Trillions of Life Entities that have acted because of their own internal Desires and Conscious Experiences to Survive, Procreate, and Eat. Fear, Sex, and Hunger are Conscious Experiences that exist in primitive Conscious Minds (as well as in Humans Minds today). These Experiences are Desires that are Consciously Felt or Experienced in the earliest possible Life Forms. These Desires are not Intelligent but very Primitive. Yet, these Desires can have profound effects on the Survivability of an Animal or even a Species. Conscious Experience of these Desires can be said to direct Evolution at a very Primitive level, not at any Intelligent level. The point is that Consciousness itself (although at a Primitive level) has an effect on Evolution. Evolution is not as Mindless as the Scientific literature claims. The Evolutionary Literature is due for a big update with regard to Consciousness.
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You are talking Darwinian evolution. I am talking Universal evolution, such as atoms forming biomolecules which in turn form living organisms,

What you are talking about is that the mind evolves by thought. Much as the Go game evolves by playing against itself and both learn in parallel. No doubt that education by example aids in the advancement of survival skills.

But Natural Selection is a mindless mathematically probabilistic action by which organisms are selected for survival ability and thereby are able to procreate.
 
Write4U said:
You are talking Darwinian evolution. I am talking Universal evolution, such as atoms forming biomolecules which in turn form living organisms,

What you are talking about is that the mind evolves by thought. Much as the Go game evolves by playing against itself and both learn in parallel. No doubt that education by example aids in the advancement of survival skills.

But Natural Selection is a mindless mathematically probabilistic action by which organisms are selected for survival ability and thereby are able to procreate.
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But the important thing to remember is that when an Animal fulfills a Desire it is implementing a Conscious Phenomenon that is controlling things in the Physical World. The positive and negative Desires directly affect the Survival Rates of Animals and Organisms and will in the long run affect the Evolution of these Animals and Organisms. It is a logical conclusion to state that Consciousness itself can influence Evolution. Evolution is not a completely Mindless, Bio Electrical Chemical, DNA Mutating, Environmentally Influenced process. Rather, Evolution is driven by a combination of primitive Conscious Desires, Bio Electrical Chemical processes, Random DNA Mutations, and Environmental Influences.
 
Michael 345 said:
Procreation yes and perhaps, subtly health, which, stretching it a bit, evolution ie you pick a healthy mate yes more likely to have healthy offspring

Evolution not really, see above

:)
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I'll repeat a reply I gave to Write4U: But the important thing to remember is that when an Animal fulfills a Desire it is implementing a Conscious Phenomenon that is controlling things in the Physical World. The positive and negative Desires directly affect the Survival Rates of Animals and Organisms and will in the long run affect the Evolution of these Animals and Organisms. It is a logical conclusion to state that Consciousness itself can influence Evolution. Evolution is not a completely Mindless, Bio Electrical Chemical, DNA Mutating, Environmentally Influenced process. Rather, Evolution is driven by a combination of primitive Conscious Desires, Bio Electrical Chemical processes, Random DNA Mutations, and Environmental Influences.
 
Write4U said:
Bingo!
And what do atoms have to do with evolution? Atoms don't evolve. They have finished evolving into the table of elements. No thoughts there.
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If atoms can evolve or not is not well established.
It is possible that laws of nature can evolve, per example in some speculative theories where the expanding Universe will lead to some other laws, so the reorganisation of atomes (and quarks etc) too.

But this is not what i wanted to say (let say the atoms dont evolve).
The box is made of atoms (hypothesis), therefore, because we are made of atomes too (fact or virtual fact), we are restricted to the condition of the atoms and are the box too.

We have acces on the same reality that the atoms are confronted too.
This is why i say that physic is the physic of Man.
And you could also say that the physic of Man is the physic of atoms used by Man.
 
Write4U said: ↑
Bingo!
And what do atoms have to do with evolution? Atoms don't evolve. They have finished evolving into the table of elements. No thoughts there.
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Absolutely agree .

It is Our Understanding of the Atom , Universe , That Evolves , not the atom its self . The atom has always been , always .


Dicart said:
If atoms can evolve or not is not well established.
It is possible that laws of nature can evolve, per example in some speculative theories where the expanding Universe will lead to some other laws, so the reorganisation of atomes (and quarks etc) too.

But this is not what i wanted to say (let say the atoms dont evolve).
The box is made of atoms (hypothesis), therefore, because we are made of atomes too (fact or virtual fact), we are restricted to the condition of the atoms and are the box too.

We have acces on the same reality that the atoms are confronted too.
This is why i say that physic is the physic of Man.
And you could also say that the physic of Man is the physic of atoms used by Man.
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Atoms don't evolve . They are stability . Without stability the Universe would not exist .
 
river said:
Brains and brawn .
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Well, in various degrees. Sometimes it is the opposite which is favored by prevailing conditions.
This is the very basic experiential dilemma; "fight or flight" Brute power or avoidance.
In field mice it may be hair color that provides advantage. A gray mouse will do better than a beige mouse on gray rocks, but a beige mouse will have an advantage in the desert sand. A long beak in a nectar drinking bird is advantageous over a short strong beak which in turn is advantageous for cracking seeds.

The short of it is that every species you can observe today is a result of some trait that gives it a survival advantage and therefore lives to procreate and pass the advantageous trait on to its offspring.
It is clear that nature allows for an infinite number of variations that assist in survival in some way. Hence the incredible variety of shapes, colorations, abilities and physical abilities present, even within species. There are very few identical species.

One evolutionary doomed species is the "silvery salamander" which mates but rejects the male sperm and only produces female clones of itself.

Silvery Salamander

Behaviour
Lacking its own males, the LJJ biotype breeds with male blue-spotted or Jefferson salamanders from March to April. The males' spermatophores only stimulate egg development; their genetic material does not contribute to the offspring's DNA. This mode of reproduction (a form of natural cloning) is called gynogenesis. The females lay cylindrical egg masses and attach them to underwater twigs. This salamander is not often observed and its diet and lifestyle are unknown.
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Habitat and range
These salamanders live almost anywhere between south-central Michigan to adjacent Indiana and Ohio to western Massachusetts south to northern New Jersey. They are commonly found in or near shallow rivers and ponds in deciduous forest. There is an extremely limited population of the salamanders in Vermilion County, Illinois with only one remaining natural population known. They are considered endangered within the state. Theory states that the population may have dropped due to the vernal pool in which they live not retaining water for a long enough period for their tadpoles to reach metamorphosis.[4]
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvery_salamander
 
Write4U said:
One evolutionary doomed species is the "silvery salamander" which mates but rejects the male sperm and only produces female clones of itself.
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That does not make it doomed.

The vast majority of life on Earth procreates asexually (i.e. without gender) and have done so successfully for orders of magnitude longer than amphibians have even existed. The fact that some salamanders have re-discovered asexual reproduction is not necessarily a disadvantage. We can't know until we count all the beans in future aeons.
 
DaveC426913 said:
That does not make it doomed.

The vast majority of life on Earth procreates asexually (i.e. without gender) and have done so successfully for orders of magnitude longer than amphibians have even existed. The fact that some salamanders have re-discovered asexual reproduction is not necessarily a disadvantage. We can't know until we count all the beans in future aeons.
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Highlighted

Prove it .
 
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