EVOLUTION vs CREATIONISM

weak

You say "divine" and I say "alien"
You say "divine" I say "alien"
"divine" "divine", "alien" "alien"
Let's call the whole thing off
You say "god," I say "martian"
You say "lord", I say "grey"
Oh, let's call the whole thing off
Oh, if we call the whole thing off
Then we must part and oh
If we ever part, that would break my heart​
 
As for existence itself, atheists fall short. Saying the universe came together randomly is like saying you could put all the pieces of a computer inside a large box and they will eventually make a computer.

Firstly, of course, you need the pieces. Yet again, the scientist can only speak of what he perceives, not of WHY or HOW he perceives.
 
We don't know how the universe got started, but logically if it's expanding, then it must have been smaller and denser at some time in the past.

It does appear to be expanding...
 
norsefire said:
Saying the universe came together randomly is like saying you could put all the pieces of a computer inside a large box and they will eventually make a computer.
Click to expand...
No it isn't.
 
saquist said:
That runs opposite to the understanding that the high oxygen content is neutral an not conducive to biological chemistry.
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Oxidation can release a great deal of energy quickly - example: campfires.

Lots of free oxygen provided a large source of energy for any organism that learned to tap it - a source that could support fast moving, large bodied, complex, energetically expensive animals. It created a selective advantage for any such organisms that happened to occur.

So the guess is that the evolutionary boom filled a new niche - big fast complex expensive being -that formerly was not available. Or, to look at it another way, the oxygen removed important selection pressures against size, complexity, and high metabolic rate.

So that's one guess that fits what we know.

Even today the animals that are adapted to anoxic metabolism tend to be comparatively small and slow and simple.
 
Norsefire said:
As for existence itself, atheists fall short. Saying the universe came together randomly is like saying you could put all the pieces of a computer inside a large box and they will eventually make a computer.

Firstly, of course, you need the pieces. Yet again, the scientist can only speak of what he perceives, not of WHY or HOW he perceives.
Click to expand...
Right....

"God did it!"

Now we know and are happy.
Any reason to keep asking questions? - apparently not.
"God did it" answers them all.


So where did the pieces for "God" come from?
Who put "God" together?
 
Sarkus said:
Right....

"God did it!"

Now we know and are happy.
Any reason to keep asking questions? - apparently not.
"God did it" answers them all.


So where did the pieces for "God" come from?
Who put "God" together?
Click to expand...

God doesn't seem all that together to me though :D
 
Norsefire said:
As for existence itself, atheists fall short. Saying the universe came together randomly is like saying you could put all the pieces of a computer inside a large box and they will eventually make a computer.
Click to expand...
the universe isn't random. it's governed by natural laws. natural laws made all planets and creatures and today nature has even managed to make computers, through us humans.

why are the natural laws the way they are? well... when the universe began, it (nothing) randomly chose some natural laws, and usually because the natural laws were wrong, the universe just imploded back to nothingness... but eventually after 5000 billion trillion years it got the right natural laws so that a universe and life could emerge and evolve.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle

the anthropic principle explains why the universe exists with circular logic. it basically says that the universe exists because it exists.

Firstly, of course, you need the pieces.
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according to science, matter is 99% space, so it's probably 100% space, and that explains how the universe could come from nothing: it didn't come from nothing, because it IS nothing, illusion.

Sarkus said:
Any reason to keep asking questions? - apparently not.
"God did it" answers them all.
Click to expand...
it's true that god is the answer to everything. but it's still useful to know exactly HOW god does everything.
 
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Norsefire said:
As for existence itself, atheists fall short. Saying the universe came together randomly is like saying you could put all the pieces of a computer inside a large box and they will eventually make a computer.

Firstly, of course, you need the pieces. Yet again, the scientist can only speak of what he perceives, not of WHY or HOW he perceives.
Click to expand...

You are using what is known as the argument from design, which was used in Darwin's time. It didn't work then and it doesn't work now, Each generation discovers this argument anew; a little education would rectify the situation but, sadly, many people would rather talk than think or inform themselves.
 
You guys are telling me how the universe was formed but not WHERE THE SPACE, TIME, MATTER, ENERGY, ETC CAME FROM TO FORM IT!

Therefore, even while our universe may be governed by natural laws, I believe it was still Created (the Creation of the Universe) by God.
 
Space, time, matter, and energy were all formed in the Big Band Era by the creator, Duke Ellington.
 
iceaura said:
Oxidation can release a great deal of energy quickly - example: campfires.

Lots of free oxygen provided a large source of energy for any organism that learned to tap it - a source that could support fast moving, large bodied, complex, energetically expensive animals. It created a selective advantage for any such organisms that happened to occur.

So the guess is that the evolutionary boom filled a new niche - big fast complex expensive being -that formerly was not available. Or, to look at it another way, the oxygen removed important selection pressures against size, complexity, and high metabolic rate.

So that's one guess that fits what we know.

Even today the animals that are adapted to anoxic metabolism tend to be comparatively small and slow and simple.
Click to expand...

Yes a catalyst...right?
 
Norsefire said:
You guys are telling me how the universe was formed but not WHERE THE SPACE, TIME, MATTER, ENERGY, ETC CAME FROM TO FORM IT!

Therefore, even while our universe may be governed by natural laws, I believe it was still Created (the Creation of the Universe) by God.
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You have given no reason why you believe that other than you guess it must have been that way. Well, a guess is just a guess.

Where do you think god came from ?
 
Myles said:
You have given no reason why you believe that other than you guess it must have been that way. Well, a guess is just a guess.

Where do you think god came from ?
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I have no idea, he would live in Heaven and therefore would not be bound by our physical laws

But, under that idea, existence is impossible.
 
So, science has no idea how the universe came into being, but you do. God made it, and you have no idea how God came into being, and that makes more sense?
 
Norsefire said:
I have no idea, he would live in Heaven and therefore would not be bound by our physical laws

But, under that idea, existence is impossible.
Click to expand...

What reason, other than gut instinct have you got for believing that ? If , as you say. everything was created, who created god ?
 
Myles said:
What reason, other than gut instinct have you got for believing that ? If , as you say. everything was created, who created god ?
Click to expand...

Again, if such a being is able to do such a thing, he would likely not be bound by our physical laws. He is eternal.......the universe: matter, energy, space, time, isn't.
 
Norsefire said:
Again, if such a being is able to do such a thing, he would likely not be bound by our physical laws. He is eternal.......the universe: matter, energy, space, time, isn't.
Click to expand...

So if you insist that everything else was created , why should god be an exception. You say he is eternal; why cannot the universe always have existed without the need of a creator ?
 
A book says it. A book which contradicts other books, and ideas which were believed before there were books. Why isn't it true that in the beginning there was a bird, Nyx, who laid an egg. From this egg comes the god of love, Eros. Then the shell pieces became Gaia and Uranus, the Earth and sky (Greek creation myth).

I think you postulate a supreme being because of your innate bias as a human. Beings make things, therefore, a being more ancient and powerful than us made everything. I think science reveals that living things are fairly rare, and that it's unlikely anything like a being was responsible for the universe any more than a being is responsible for the nuclear reactions in the Sun.
 
Myles said:
So if you insist that everything else was created , why should god be an exception. You say he is eternal; why cannot the universe always have existed without the need of a creator ?
Click to expand...

Matter, energy, space, time......they would need an origin. It is difficult to imagine that they "always were", because that would completely contradict everything, it would completely make no sense



@spidergoat, again, how do you know we aren't under a microscope of some being in a lab suit, and we are in a "universe bubble"?

I do not believe we are, but that IS a possibility
 
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