Feminism and Islam

Muslim men are permitted (NOT encouraged) to marry up to 4 wives. But many people have misconceptions about this and THINK because of their ignorance that this is because women in Islam are property of males. THIS IS NOT TRUE

Polygamy is NOT an act of faith or an obligation in any form whatsoever. It is a conditional permission that can only be done under certain circumstances. If the first WIFE does not want the man to marry anyone except for her, she can sign a contract forbidding the man to marry anyone else. THIS GIVES THE WIFE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE IF THE MAN CAN OR CAN NOT MARRY AGAIN. If a man does marry more then one wife he must treat ALL of the wives EQUALLY.

Polygamy is a LAST RESORT allowed in cases where the man cannot remain faithful to his wife and to stop social and moral problems arising from this. It is an emergency matter and should be treated as such. So if the man cannot control himself (in western society this is very apparent as many divorces and broken homes are the result of cheating) it is better for the man to be with a woman that he is married to and that the first wife knows exactly who he is with. Anyway, in Islamic society this isn’t something that is practiced commonly.

It is true that some men marry many women as property but NOT BECAUSE OF ISLAM. These are because of their CULTURE. Women are NOT property of men or anybody else for that manner as the Quran clearly states in many verses. Despite what people think, in true Islam Women are seen as individuals and have the equal rights to men.

NOTE – Polygamy is also practiced by many non Islamic people. For example in parts of Africa men marry as many wives as they can, as it is a sign of their wealth. This goes against Islam because in these cases there is no real cause for multiple marriage, the women ARE seen as property, and there is no limit to the amount of wives and how fairly treated they will be.

[small pieces of texts adapted from; “Islam in focus”, a book by Hammudah ‘Abd al Ati]
 
Muslim men are permitted (NOT encouraged) to marry up to 4 wives. But many people have misconceptions about this and THINK because of their ignorance that this is because women in Islam are property of males. THIS IS NOT TRUE

Polygamy is NOT an act of faith or an obligation in any form whatsoever. It is a conditional permission that can only be done under certain circumstances. If the first WIFE does not want the man to marry anyone except for her, she can sign a contract forbidding the man to marry anyone else. THIS GIVES THE WIFE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE IF THE MAN CAN OR CAN NOT MARRY AGAIN. If a man does marry more then one wife he must treat ALL of the wives EQUALLY.

Polygamy is a LAST RESORT allowed in cases where the man cannot remain faithful to his wife and to stop social and moral problems arising from this. It is an emergency matter and should be treated as such. So if the man cannot control himself (in western society this is very apparent as many divorces and broken homes are the result of cheating) it is better for the man to be with a woman that he is married to and that the first wife knows exactly who he is with. Anyway, in Islamic society this isn’t something that is practiced commonly.

It is true that some men marry many women as property but NOT BECAUSE OF ISLAM. These are because of their CULTURE. Women are NOT property of men or anybody else for that manner as the Quran clearly states in many verses. Despite what people think, in true Islam Women are seen as individuals and have the equal rights to men.

NOTE – Polygamy is also practiced by many non Islamic people. For example in parts of Africa men marry as many wives as they can, as it is a sign of their wealth. This goes against Islam because in these cases there is no real cause for multiple marriage, the women ARE seen as property, and there is no limit to the amount of wives and how fairly treated they will be.

[small pieces of texts adapted from; “Islam in focus”, a book by Hammudah ‘Abd al Ati]
 
if a woman hides her beauty.

then what will shine out?

the person she is inside.

in western society, the most popular girls in school are the prettiest and the outkasts are the ugly ones. pretty women get treated nicely by men while ugly ones dont. the most enived girls are the pretiest.

most teenage girls in the west fell insecure and terrible about thweir bodies and thats why so many are anorexic but not insecure becasue their are pretty women everywhere parading about.
 
Why did the prophet had so many wives?

you pagans think that Prophet (SAW)* had many wives for sex or just fir the hell of it. this is eniterly untrue.

after various wars at the time. many women had lost their husbands and had no money. the prophet (SAW) had to help these people by giving them food, money and clothing. he needed to give them a home but in Islam a non related man and woman can not live together so he had to marry them.

firstly, he (SAW) needed to preach Islam to as many people he could. the biggest source of Islam apart from the Quran is the collection of the sayings of the Prophet (SAW). these were recorded by people who listened to the Prophet (SAW) and wrote them down after having them authenticated. the Prophet needed people pious people who lived with him and who were present with him a lot (wives) to write these sayings and write down all of his actions. IF the Prophets(SAW) wife was not married to the Prophet (SAW) then a VERY BIG part of the Islamic sources would be missing.

CONCLUCION – The concludion is that because the 2nd biggest source of Islam is these sayings and it was partly written from the accounts of women shows that Islam does give women equal weight of views and expression.

Now, here Islam is giving women the right to be part of the 2nd Biggest source of Islam (after Quran of course) while women in the West before feminism had absolutely NO say in politics and what could happen to them. Until the 19th century women could not even own property. But Islam gives women this right of expression over a millennium before the west and most of all FREELY, without the need of the struugles that women in the west needed to gain these rights; In the west, women went on hunger strikes, marches, jails, propaganda missions to get their rights.

if it wasn't for World War 1 and 2 then women probably still WOULD NOT have rights!

In Islam women were given rights FREELY in a society where burying girls JUST for being female was a CUSTOM. There was no need for hunger strikes, marches, jails, and propaganda missions to get their rights. There was no need for to major world wars, which had a combined death toll of 80 million
 
munim_786 said:
in Islam the value of a mans and a womans views are EQUAL. (this was view was intoruced to non muslim western society 1350 years later)

that is EQUAL for men and women.

remeber in ISLAM a man and woman's view are eaually relevant
in islam you are allowed to lie, and you are a
BIG LIAR
women are half, look it up its in the quran. How many women does it take to be a witness to a crime in islam? if islam is so equal, why did it take 1400 years for women to enjoy the same rights as Khadijah? http://www.islamfortoday.com/khadijah.htm
Islam is a man's religion; why else would 72 virgins & free flowing wine await muslims that go to heaven? answer this munim_786, in heaven, would women be satisfied with 72 virgins or would they want something else? what did Mohammad say about how many women where in hell? look it up in the suras, then tell us more lies to cover-up your findings
BTW, can you find the following quotes in your personal quran? or did they tear the pages out?


"Allah is a deceiver: The Hypocrites - they seek to deceive Allah but it is Allah who deceives them. When they stand up to prayer, they stand without earnestness, to be seen of men, but little do they hold Allah in remembrance (Surat Al-Nisa 4:142).

Allah is a torturer: Fight them and Allah will torture (literal translation) them by your hands, and disgrace them, help you [to victory] over them, heal the breasts of believers (Surat Al-Tawbah 9;14)

Allah is the best plotter: And when those who disbelieve plot against thee [O Mohammed] to wound thee fatally, or to kill thee or to drive thee forth; they plot, but Allah [also] plotteth; and Allah is the best of plotters (Surat Al-Anfal 8:30 MPT) "
 
Randolfo said:
in islam you are allowed to lie, and you are a
BIG LIAR
women are half, look it up its in the quran. How many women does it take to be a witness to a crime in islam? if islam is so equal, why did it take 1400 years for women to enjoy the same rights as Khadijah? http://www.islamfortoday.com/khadijah.htm
Islam is a man's religion; why else would 72 virgins & free flowing wine await muslims that go to heaven? answer this munim_786, in heaven, would women be satisfied with 72 virgins or would they want something else? what did Mohammad say about how many women where in hell? look it up in the suras, then tell us more lies to cover-up your findings
BTW, can you find the following quotes in your personal quran? or did they tear the pages out?


Randolofo lol.... You and Proud Muslim are the same people right?

Convert Now and leave your Pagan GOD asap or you will burn in Enternal Hell!

:D :D
 
567 said:
Randolofo lol.... You and Proud Muslim are the same people right?

Convert Now and leave your Pagan GOD asap or you will burn in Enternal Hell!
no, we are twins separated at birth
:D :D ;)
 
THIS IS ANSERING YOU QUESTION ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF HUSBAND IN HEAVEN for females

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All thanks and praise are due to Allah and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear questioner, we would like to thank you for your good question and we implore Almighty Allah for His help in furnishing you with the best answer.

In the very beginning, we would like to cite Ibn Kathir’s comment on the issue of men having Hoor Al-`Een. It reads:“ Almighty Allah tells us that He will provide the residents of Paradise with beautiful wives who have big and lustrous eyes and 'whom no man or Jinn before them has touched' and who are 'Like unto rubies and coral'”.

In fact, Paradise is the abode of the believers in the Hereafter. Allah has prepared for His believing servants, males and females, in Paradise indescribable bliss that which no eye has seen, no ear has heard of and that has never ever crossed the minds of people, to the extent that even the person who has the least blessings in Paradise will think that he is the most blessed one.

In more than one Qur'anic verse, Allah, Most High, calls upon His servants to do their utmost in order to be favored with Paradise. For example, He says, "And vie one with another for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a Paradise as wide as are the heavens and the earth, prepared for those who ward off (evil)." (Al `Imran: 133)

All this indicates that in Paradise believing men and women will be showered with blessings; there is no room for discrimination based on gender in Paradise.

Focusing more on this issue, Sheikh `Atiyyah Saqr, former Head of Al-Azhar Fatwa Committee, adds:

“Here Allah mentions the Hoor Al`Een because in most cases men pursue women and not vice versa. As for women, Allah Almighty may marry them to any of the believers in Paradise, if they did not get married during worldly life, or He may compensate them by making them feel content with their position. It is also said that Allah may grant women some kind of beauty with which they will feel that they are better than the Hoor Al-`Een and that they are their mistress, so they will not love anyone other than their own husbands nor will they feel jealous of the Hoor Al-`Een.”

Allah Almighty knows best.
 
THIS IS ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF WITNESSES NEED IN A TRIAL

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

First of all, you should know that both genders are entitled to equality before the law of Islam. Justice is genderless. According to the Qur'an, men and women receive the same punishment for crimes such as theft (5:38), fornication (24:2), murder and injury (5:45).

Women possess an independent legal entity in financial and other matters. One legal issue is widely misunderstood: testimony. A common but erroneous belief is that as a "rule," the worth of women's testimony is one half of men's testimony. A survey of all passages in the Qur'an relating to testimony does not substantiate this claimed "rule."

In his book Markaz Al-Mar'ah fi Al-Hayaah Al-Islamiyyah (The Status of Women in Islam), Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi states:

Some people harbor certain doubts and raise questions about Islam's stance on the woman's status as a human being. One of these questions is: How does Islam regard woman on an equal footing with man while it in the meantime gives man privilege over woman in some dealings such as legal testimony, inheritance, blood money, charge of the family, heading the state and other supporting ministrations?

The distinction (if it can ever be called one) between man and woman is not due to any preference by Allah, the Almighty, of the man or the woman on one being nobler or closer to the Lord.

As a rule, it is piety or consciousness that is what measures one as nobler and closer to Allah: "Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things)." (Al-Hujuraat 49:13)

However, the distinction made in the verse is merely conditioned by the different tasks assigned to each of the two sexes by virtue of their natural disposition.

The Qur'anic verse known as "verse of indebtedness" in which Allah prescribes writing debt contracts as a precautionary measure is: " O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing. Let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as Allah Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord Allah, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her." (Al-Baqarah 2:282)

The Qur'an makes the testimony of man equal to the testimony of two women. Moreover, the majority of jurists maintain that a woman's testimony does not count in major crimes and in matters which do not relate to the rule of retaliation in kind.

Yet the distinction is far from being due to any belief in a deficiency of the woman's humanity and integrity. It is rather due to her natural disposition and her special inclinations which may exclude her involvement in such matters while being focused on motherhood or the household. Hence, it is most likely to be a kind of characteristic inattention on her part when it comes to handling these matters. For this reason, Allah commands creditors if they want to verify the value of debt to seek the testimony of two men or one man and two women. The Qur'an puts it unambiguously: " so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her." (Al-Baqarah 2:282)

The exclusion of woman's testimony, altogether, from cases of major crimes, and cases requiring retaliation in kind, is meant to protect women and steer her away from scenes of crime and aggressions against souls, honor and property. It is frequent, for instance, to see a woman closing her eyes, or running away in panic from a scene of bloodshed; therefore, it becomes difficult for that woman to give a reliable account of the crime.

Nevertheless, this has also meant for the jurists that a woman's testimony counts in cases of feminine affairs such as foster relationships, menstruation, delivery and such matters whose knowledge was confined to women in past ages and probably still is."

Dr. Jamal Badawi, professor at Saint Mary's University in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada, and a cross-appointed faculty member in the Departments of Religious Studies and Management, adds:

Most Qur'anic references to testimony (witness) do not make any reference to gender. Some references fully equate the testimony of males and females.

One reference in the Qur'an distinguishes between the witness of a male and a female. It is useful to quote this reference and explain it in its own context and in the context of other Qur'anic references to testimony:

"O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing. Let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as Allah Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord Allah, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her." (Al-Baqarah 2:282)

A few comments on this text are essential in order to prevent common misinterpretations:

a. It cannot be used as an argument that there is a general rule in the Qur'an that the worth of a female's witness is only half the male's. This presumed "rule" is voided by the above reference (24:6-9), which explicitly equates the testimony of both genders on the issue at hand.

b. The context of this passage (verse, or ayah) relates to testimony on financial transactions, which are often complex and laden with business jargon. The passage does not make blanket generalization that would otherwise contradict 24:6-9, cited above.

c. The reason for variations in the number of male and female witnesses required is given in the same passage. No reference is made to the inferiority or superiority of one gender's witness or the other's. The only reason given is to corroborate the female's witness and prevent unintended errors in the perception of the business deal. The Arabic term used in this passage, tadhilla, literally means "loses the way," "gets confused," or "errs." But are females the only gender that may err and need corroboration of their testimony? Definitely not, and that is why the general rule of testimony in Islamic law is to have two witnesses, even when they are both male.

One possible interpretation of the requirements related to this particular type of testimony is that in numerous societies, past and present, women generally may not be heavily involved with and experienced in business transactions. As such, they may not be completely cognizant of what is involved. Therefore, corroboration of a woman's testimony by another woman who may be present ascertains accuracy and, hence, justice. It would be unreasonable to interpret this requirement as a reflection on the worth of women's testimony, as it is the only exception discerned from the text of the Qur'an. This may be one reason why a great scholar like At-Tabari could not find any evidence from any primary text (Qur'an or hadith) to exclude women from something more important than testimony: being herself a judge who hears and evaluates the testimony of others.

d. It must be added that unlike pure acts of worship, which must be observed exactly as taught by the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, testimony is a means to an end, ascertaining justice as a major objective of Islamic law. Therefore, it is the duty of a fair judge to be guided by this objective when assessing the worth and credibility of a given testimony, regardless of the gender of the witness. A witness of a female graduate of a business school is certainly far more worthy than the witness of an illiterate person with no business education or experience."
 
YOUR ARGUMENT HAS NO BASIS

you keep on using the SAME argument. "if Islam gives women rights then why do lot of Asian countries have poor womens rights"

this argument has no basis. you can NOT look at countires and base entire ancient religions on what these countires do.

1) CHRISTIANTY grants women fairly equal rights

2) So why did the western world have equal laws for women ONLY from the late 19th century

(so basically that means for 1900 years womens rights were absent, so if i now use the logic of your argument... that means CHristinaty does not grant women rights and it is the western govermants who gave women rights) - (same logic applies to all religions)

now remember Islam is a religion NOT a country and there are Muslims in every corner of the world who respect women and give them rights. There are Muslims in thw world who DONT respect women,
there are Christians in every corner of the world who respect women and give them rights. There are CHristians in the world who DONT respect women,
 
munim_786:

munim_786 said:
Yet the distinction is far from being due to any belief in a deficiency of the woman's humanity and integrity. It is rather due to her natural disposition and her special inclinations which may exclude her involvement in such matters while being focused on motherhood or the household. Hence, it is most likely to be a kind of characteristic inattention on her part when it comes to handling these matters.

So, the aim is to perpetuate the limitation of opportunities for women, is that right? Women are expected to stay at home and look after the kitchen and the children, and not concern themselves with matters such as economics and politics.

The exclusion of woman's testimony, altogether, from cases of major crimes, and cases requiring retaliation in kind, is meant to protect women and steer her away from scenes of crime and aggressions against souls, honor and property. It is frequent, for instance, to see a woman closing her eyes, or running away in panic from a scene of bloodshed; therefore, it becomes difficult for that woman to give a reliable account of the crime.

How patronising!

Often, women are the victims of crimes, rather than mere observers, as you would have it. They are the best and most reliable witnesses in such cases. A woman is no more likely than a man to close her eyes and run away from a scene of bloodshed.

It sounds like the Muslim world needs to stop living in the dark ages, and start respecting the equality of men and women.
 
first off those TWO (only those two about heaven and court cases) was a reply from a bro at www.islam4you.co.uk

i just copied it sa i dont have much time lately becasue of my exams. anyway, i will reply with my version dont you worry about that and i will crush your argument. just give me some time for my exams and i will post the crap out of you (and this time with my own words!)
 
i will cruush this entire thread. i will prove Islam gives women equal rights. expect me soon. after my exams are over, i will have time.

peace out
 
In orthodox Islamic nations, in which the sharia law has been established, the treatment of women generally ranges from heartbreaking to downright abominable.

In Islam as found in the Quran, the woman is inferior to the man in matters of law and justice. For instance, it is stipulated that a woman is to receive only half the inheritance that her brothers receive when their parents pass away,

"Allah thus directs you as regards your children's inheritance: to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half." (Surah 4:11)

In this way, a woman is deprived of an equal share of inheritance solely because she is female, and if women are the only inheritors, they don't even receive the full inheritance! This sort of uneven distribution is elsewhere supported in the Quran,


"Allah directs thus about those who leave no descendants or ascendants as heirs. If it is a man that dies, leaving a sister but no child, she shall have half the inheritance: If such a deceased was a woman, who left no child, her brother takes her inheritance: If there are two sisters, they shall have two-thirds of the inheritance between them: if there are brothers and sisters, they share, the male having twice the share of the female." (Surah 4:176)

This apportionment system of giving women half the amount which a man receives is also supported by Mohammed in the Hadith . Hence, though the Quranic right of a woman to her inheritance is affirmed, it still establishes a systematically unequal legal position for the woman.

Likewise, a woman is reckoned in Islamic jurisprudence to be worth half a man by means of testimony in a court of law. Specifically, a woman's testimony only counts for half that of a man's, thus two women are needed to counter the claims of a man.


"The Prophet said, 'Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that for a man?' The women said, 'Yes.' He said, 'This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind.'

Not only is a woman's word not as good as that of a man's, but neither is her mind! Because of this acceptance of the notion that women are not as intelligent as men, women are accorded an inferior standing in Islamic justice. Logically, this would bear out to the disadvantage of women in pressing their rights and defending themselves or seeking redress for wrongs done to them. If a woman were raped and the deed was done secretly, she would have absolutely no redress against her assailant, unless he confessed out of guilt or fear, because his word would count for twice as much as hers and overrule her.
 
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Women´s Rights Activist Receives Threats for Slamming Islam

A Somali woman living in the Netherlands has been put under police protection, after allegedly receiving death threats from extremist Muslims. On Dutch television earlier this week, Ayaan Hirsi Ali criticised fundamentalist Islamic communities for their treatment of women.

Other Dutch Muslims who have been campaigning for women's rights say they too have been threatened, and that the Muslim community here in the Netherlands is increasingly divided
 
In the Koran there are four so called neutral verses where women are considered equal to men (at least not demeaning towards women); to which apologists for Islam refer us repeatedly. Here they are:

3: 195 "Their Lord responded to the: "I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you male or female, you are equal to one another¦."

4: 124 "As for those who lead a righteous life, male or female. While believing, they enter paradise; without the slightest injustice"

16: 97 "Anyone who works righteousness, male or female, while believing, we will surely grant them a happy life in this world, and we will surely pay them their full recompense for their righteous works."

40: 40 "Whoever commits a sin is required for just that, and whoever works righteousness - male or female - while believing, these will enter paradise wherein they receive provision without any limits."



In opposition to above four so-called neutral verses, there are hundreds of versed that deliberately defame and dehumanise women:

An-Nisa 4: 34 "As to those women On whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill -conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share beds, (and Last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance): For God is Most High, Great (above you all)"

Al - Baqara 2: 223 "Your women are a tilt for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilt as ye will, and send (good deeds) before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will (one day) meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, (o Mohammad)"

Al - Baqara 2: 222 "They questioned thee (O Mohammad) concerning menstruation, Say it is an illness, so let women alone at such times and go not unto them till they are cleansed."

Al - Baqara 2: 228 "Men, your wives are your tillage. Go into your tillage any way you want."

"Women have such honourable rights as obligations, but men have a (single) degree above them."

"Men are managers of the affairs of women because Allah has preferred men over women and women were expended of their rights."

4:6 ¦ "And if ye are sick on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have contact with a woman & ye find not water, then go to clean high ground & rub your faces & your hands with some of it¦"

33: 32-33 "O ye wives of the prophet! Ye are not like any other women. If ye keep your duty (to Allah), then be not soft of speech lest he in whose heart is a disease aspire to you, but utter customary speech And stay in your houses. Bedizen not yourselves with the bedizenment of the time of ignorance. Be regular in prayer, & pay the poor due, obey Allah & His messenger
 
Muslim Women's Civil Rights under Islamic Law

Muslim Women living under Islamic Law cannot travel, work, study, and leave their houses without their fathers or husbands' permission. They do not have the right to choose the place of their residence. Under the terms of Koranic law, any judge fulfilling the seven requirements (that he have reached puberty, be a believer, know the Koranic laws perfectly, be just, and not be affected by amnesia, or not born illegitimate, or be of the female sex), is qualified to dispense justice in any type of cases.

According to Islamic Law, woman cannot choose her mate and is not permitted to divorce him. Her husband can divorce without her knowledge, and according to Shari'a, he is required to support her for only 100 days.


Civilised humanity has slowly moved towards the equal treatment of women and the recognition of women's equal rights. Religions are one of the oldest and the most persistent obstacles on the way of women's equality and freedom.

Indeed, religion is women's enemy and it is the nature of all religions particularly Islam to look backwards to past ancient times and antiquated values.


Women will be universally equal someday, when that day comes, it will arrive in spite of all religions and as a result of a just and powerful fight against Islam.


munim_786 said:
i will cruush this entire thread. i will prove Islam gives women equal rights. expect me soon. after my exams are over, i will have time.

Over to you munim 786 - if you can spare the time...............
 
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