George Zimmerman found Not Guilty.

[Tiassa]

As This Is the U.S. We're Talking About, Who Gives a Damn About Toronto?

This one drop rule is also bound to alter statistics. If I said two thirds of Police Car Stops were against Minorities, then I would also be including "slightly tan" type immigrants like Hawaiian/Filipino/etc. Would this be an accurate portrayal in your eyes?

Maybe. Depends on where you are, and how they count the Darkies. (These days, American racists are starting to get upset because black people aren't black enough.)

NOBODY HERE CARES ABOUT RACE. IT MAY SEEM WEIRD TO YOU, BUT LOOK AND SEE. THAT IS HOW IT IS EVERYWHERE.

Right. We get it. Toronto is the greatest place in the world.

Doesn't mean a fuckin' thing to Trayvon Martin. As a matter of fact, here's a list of people it doesn't mean a fuckin' thing to:

Latasha Harlins, Rodney King, Eleanor Bumpurs, Michael Stewart, Anthony Baez, Michael Wayne Clark, Julio Nunez, Maria Rivas, Mohammed Assassa, Amadou Diallo, Yusuf Salaam, Antron McCray, Raymond Santana, Kevin Richardson, Kharey Wise, Oscar Grant, Stanley Scott, Donnell Lucas, Tommy Yates, Angel Castro Jr., Bilal Ashraf, Anthony Starks, Johnny Gammage, Malice Green, Darlene Tiller, Alvin Barroso, Marcillus Miller, Brenda Forester, Eliberto Saldana, Elzie Coleman, Tracy Mayberry, De Andrre Harrison, Sonji Taylor, Baraka Hall, Sean Bell, Tyshia Miller, Devon Nelson, LaTanya Haggerty, Prince Jamel Galvin, Robin Taneisha Williams, Melvin Cox, Rudolph Bell, Sheron Jackson, Jordan Davis.​

As Robin D. G. Kelley points out, "The list is long and deep. In 2012 alone, police officers, security guards or vigilantes took the lives of 136 unarmed black men and women—at least twenty-five of whom were killed by vigilantes."

So tell us all about Toronto, and all about how you know what's going on in the United States, and how racism in this country is gone.

And, really, what is this self-centered obsession? First you try to tell us that racism in the U.S. isn't real, and as that argument crumbles, you do this multi-post chest-thumping about Toronto?

Hey, great. But you know what? If you are representative of people in Toronto, it's not a city I want to get anywhere near. A comparative lack of racism would not be enough to assuage the unease of walking into a city full of people who look at the world the way you do.
____________________

Notes:

Kelley, Robin D. G. "The U.S. v. Trayvon Martin: How the System Worked". The Huffington Post. July 15, 2013. HuffingtonPost.com. August 8, 2013. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robin-d-g-kelley/nra-stand-your-ground-trayvon-martin_b_3599843.html

 

[ElectricFetus]

We'll never know because the show didnt give us that view did they? And they didnt put a group of asian or mexican kids up to a car stunt like that either did they, let alone in a black, or hispanic or asian community to see a balanced comparison.

Lets back track here, lets assume your right that in black communities and Hispanic communities white people are prayed against racially, even though you have no evidence: Do two wrongs make a right? Is the racial discrimination against black people Ok if white people get discriminated against? Black people are discriminated against, we have the statistical evidence, now are you saying that all ok because of the mere possibility that the inverse could happen to whites somewhere somehow?

 

[kwhilborn]

@ Tiassa,

But you

fuckin

support Racism if it comes from a black person.

how you know what's going on in the United States

Your president clearly stated 4 conditions black men experience with NO

fuckin

knowledge of whether a white person would experience the same things. You yourself said you would treat a Black man and white man the same in all 4 scenarios, yet the perceptions would be different. A black man might consider store security checking him out as a racist thing, while a White man being followed by store security might just think the store has security.

but

Obviously you're too

fuckin

racist to recognize.

I could list a bunch of people who died while driving, and that does not give you the right to drive like a

fuckin

airhead.

Condoning racism to end racism. Weird approach. Two wrongs equals right?

 

[milkweed]

Lets back track here, lets assume your right that in black communities and Hispanic communities white people are prayed against racially, even though you have no evidence: Do two wrongs make a right? Is the racial discrimination against black people Ok if white people get discriminated against? Black people are discriminated against, we have the statistical evidence, now are you saying that all ok because of the mere possibility that the inverse could happen to whites somewhere somehow?

Nothing in that video that the people did in response was WRONG see video at 4:30 where they themselves state it was not WRONG to call 911 on the vandals regardless of color.

 

[Tiassa]

The Talk

A black man might consider store security checking him out as a racist thing, while a White man being followed by store security might just think the store has security.

Maybe if it happens once? Sure.

But when it happens over and over and over again?

When it becomes a daily expectation?

Charles Mudede explained, last month, how the Trayvon Martin case resulted in him having "the talk" with his son. It's a tragic talk. And the problem is that it's true.

Thirty years later, I find myself with a teenage son. We live in an American city. He is in high school. He is black and tall. He likes to jog and hang out with friends. He seems to be having a happy childhood. He plans to go to college. All seemed to be going well until George Zimmerman was acquitted for killing an unarmed teenager, Trayvon Martin. Now, I don't want to go over the tedious details and arguments of this case. I just want to point out two clear facts: One, had Trayvon Martin been white, he would have made it home alive. The second fact: George Zimmerman is not going to jail. These two facts mean one thing: Little has changed from the days when my parents warned me about cops and aggressive white men. And because there has been little change, it would be foolish, even negligent, of me not to impress upon my son a hard understanding of the society he lives in.

This is what I told him over dinner recently: The most important thing to know is that your rights are useless to you if you are dead. So when it comes down to reality, forget about them. If a cop approaches you for some reason or another, be cool and diffident. Even if the cop is an asshole, even if he is totally wrong, do not raise your voice or challenge him in any way. I know, it sucks—but, as I said, the name of the game is staying alive. Also, if a white man asks what you are doing in this or that neighborhood, don't say: You have no right to ask me that. Why? Because your rights mean jack when you are dead. So be calm, do not make sudden moves, answer his questions as clearly as possible, and always keep your hands visible. (Once, when two cops approached me with drawn guns and demanded to see my ID, I, with raised hands, calmly told them that it was in my back pocket, but I feared lowering my hands. Once they understood that I was not challenging their power to take my life, the tension dropped and one of the cops searched my pockets for and found my ID—I was not the black guy they were looking for. I lived to tell that story.)

So never get angry, keep the situation cool, and always be aware of the color of your skin when you are jogging to Lake Washington or to the soccer field. Know that what many people see is not a teenager enjoying the day, but just a criminal, someone who should be locked up, someone who is a menace to society. I do not want a dead son.​

Now, perhaps that seems an absurd proposition to you, but that's the problem when you're arguing from a position of absolute and inexplicable ignorance. This is how it goes.

And white parents of white children don't need to have that talk.

Down in Oregon, there is a small city near Portland by the charming name of Lake Oswego. In the '90s, it was derisively referred to, and not just by ethnic and racial minorities, as "Lake No Negro". We are talking about a place where a black man walking off the heat after jogging gets a visit from the cops because someone called in a report of a "suspicious" person. When it turns out that it's a neighbor who knows you by face, but called the police because a black man wearing sweats was in the neighborhood? What the hell does one say to that?

I get it, though. These stories sound absurd. The idea that they are so commonplace becomes maddeningly unimaginable. But that's the thing: It's true. It's one thing for you to stroke Toronto in order to gratify yourself, but you're also one who has made ridiculous assertions as well as revealed that you have no clue what you're talking about.

So pitch whatever tantrum you want.

We Americans face this problem. We know it exists. And some dude up in Toronto telling us it doesn't when he knows nothing about the history involved?

The only thing I can't figure out is why you would attempt this ruse in the first place.

And yet you're also arguing from a peculiar position in which people are never going to wish upon you the disaster of your own ignorance. Maybe as all the nuclear physicists and engineers are scrambling to figure out why temperatures and pressures are soaring into the red, you can tell them, "Turn off that alarm. Nothing's on fire. There isn't a problem."

The one thing they cannot do is simply say, "Okay. Tell you what, we're out of here. These are the keys to the executive offices. There's a liquor cabinet up there. Network's still up, so you can get all the movies or porn you want. There's good pizza in the commissary. Have a good weekend. See you on Monday."

Sure, you can always prove how right you are by getting blown to pieces, burned to death, or irradiated to the point of long, agonizing deterioration. Nobody in their right mind is actually going to wish that on you.

And, in truth, I wouldn't wish American racism on anyone, either. There is no triumph in the thought of you getting to believe you're right at the moment of your untimely, unnecessary, and unjust death. Especially as you would be dead, and thus slightly less able to comprehend the point.

Your ignorance is fine, as long as you keep it up in the Great Northland. Down here, in the States? It's dangerous.
____________________

Notes:

Mudede, Charles. "My Parents Told Me the Sad Truth About America". The Stranger. July 17, 2013. TheStranger.com. August 9, 2013. http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/...-sad-truth-about-america/Content?oid=17268151

 

[kwhilborn]

@ Tiassa,

So your solution is to tell your child he is being held down by the man. Teach him to expect racism.

I never said racism does not exist. I said your president made a racist comment.

I have said two wrongs don't make a right.

Obama (and you) can assume I or men like me rarely get followed by store security. This is what you think happens based on some screwed up fantasy in your head likely encouraged by "talks" like the one you describe.

You can assume nobody will lock their door.

Well you know what. I cannot carry on this charade any longer. You are absolutely correct.

Once all black people leave the store they actually shut off all the video cameras, and store security starts handing out 50% off coupons for everything in the store.

It is a known fact white people never steal and need not be watched.

Feel Better.

You can show that to your son as well as proof. How could any non whites actually know what goes on so now I am telling you.

These coupons are great.

My children are not white if we follow your one drop rule. I do not care if they marry black, white, Hispanic, or a member of their own sex. My children do not make any gay claims, but I would love them as much in any instance. I can certainly say they will never get "The Talk". I tell them all the reasons they are advantaged over others such as starting school at less than a year of age, being breastfed for several years each, and having enough money to live comfortable lives before they reach adulthood (They all have enough to buy homes, etc.). It is also a fact that mixed DNA produces smarter children than inbreeding or even non mixed marriages, so If I did discuss their ethnicity I would likely (I have not) tell them they are advantaged there as well.

You accuse me of ignoring racism, but I am only pointing out Obama made racist comments. Do you believe racism cannot exist against whites?

I despise racism, even if it comes from a president.

Racism does exist in the Northland, but hopefully most of it will die off with the baby boomers.

This was all exposed years ago by this man...
[video]http://www.snotr.com/video/422/Eddie_Murphy_goes_undercover[/video]

@ Tiassa (cont'd)

What is so hard about admitting Obama made a racist comment. You seem to pride yourself on recognizing racism so what is the leap here. To me it seems you just think the racist comment from Obama was justified because white people deserve it, or because it is only a small taste of your perceived abuse. Obama cannot possibly know how he would have been treated as a white man in those same circumstances, so there is no logical way he can say this without making assumptions.

 

[Tiassa]

Ignorance, Abstraction, and Fallacy

So your solution is to tell your child he is being held down by the man. Teach him to expect racism.

Hard to feel smug about standing up to racism when you're dead.

It's not my solution. It's not even a solution. In the United States, "The Talk" Mudede describes a black father having with his son is an acknowledgment of reality, a necessary bit of instruction on behalf of the young man's survival.

What is so hard about admitting Obama made a racist comment. You seem to pride yourself on recognizing racism so what is the leap here. To me it seems you just think the racist comment from Obama was justified because white people deserve it, or because it is only a small taste of your perceived abuse. Obama cannot possibly know how he would have been treated as a white man in those same circumstances, so there is no logical way he can say this without making assumptions.

This is a statistical reality. Indeed, you're the first person I've ever heard make these kinds of suggestions. So while you're telling me that Obama can't know, well, as I noted earlier, when I want to know what it's like to live in dark skin, I'll ask someone who lives in dark skin. And that does work both ways. The simple fact is that while we occasionally hear the story of a priggish security guard from someone who happens to be white, I've never heard the like out of white people.

That is to say, while many Americans feel blacks have it great in the U.S.—

White Americans feel they are more discriminated against than blacks, a new study reveals.

Sociologists from Harvard and Tufts universities asked 209 white and 208 black men and women to rate 'racism' against both ethnic groups since the 1950s on a scale of one to 10.

The results showed that while both blacks and whites saw anti-black racism decreasing over the decades, whites saw race relations as a 'zero sum game' where they were losing out as blacks 'gained' the advantage.

(Daily Mail)​

—no, whites do not suffer the same paranoid responses in public as black people do. What these people are upset about is that in order for black people to be equal, they can no longer be superior.

You're trying to argue an abstraction. Of course President Obama doesn't get to know what it's like to see the world from inside white skin. But that doesn't change the observable facts.

Also, let us review the president's remarks:

You know, when Trayvon Martin was first shot I said that this could have been my son. Another way of saying that is Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago. And when you think about why, in the African American community at least, there's a lot of pain around what happened here, I think it's important to recognize that the African American community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a history that doesn't go away.

There are very few African American men in this country who haven't had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store. That includes me. There are very few African American men who haven't had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happens to me — at least before I was a senator. There are very few African Americans who haven't had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had a chance to get off. That happens often.

And I don't want to exaggerate this, but those sets of experiences inform how the African American community interprets what happened one night in Florida. And it's inescapable for people to bring those experiences to bear. The African American community is also knowledgeable that there is a history of racial disparities in the application of our criminal laws — everything from the death penalty to enforcement of our drug laws. And that ends up having an impact in terms of how people interpret the case.

Now, this isn't to say that the African American community is naïve about the fact that African American young men are disproportionately involved in the criminal justice system; that they're disproportionately both victims and perpetrators of violence. It's not to make excuses for that fact — although black folks do interpret the reasons for that in a historical context. They understand that some of the violence that takes place in poor black neighborhoods around the country is born out of a very violent past in this country, and that the poverty and dysfunction that we see in those communities can be traced to a very difficult history.

And so the fact that sometimes that's unacknowledged adds to the frustration. And the fact that a lot of African American boys are painted with a broad brush and the excuse is given, well, there are these statistics out there that show that African American boys are more violent — using that as an excuse to then see sons treated differently causes pain.

I think the African American community is also not naïve in understanding that, statistically, somebody like Trayvon Martin was statistically more likely to be shot by a peer than he was by somebody else. So folks understand the challenges that exist for African American boys. But they get frustrated, I think, if they feel that there's no context for it and that context is being denied. And that all contributes I think to a sense that if a white male teen was involved in the same kind of scenario, that, from top to bottom, both the outcome and the aftermath might have been different.​

Now, where did he say he knows what it's like to be white?

You're arguing ignorance, abstraction, and fallacy.

You don't have a racist bone in your body? Pfft.
____________________

Notes:

Daily Mail Reporter. "'Whites suffer more racism than blacks': Study shows white American people believe they are more discriminated against". Mail Online. May 24, 2011. DailyMail.co.uk. August 10, 2013. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ite-people-believe-discriminated-against.html

Obama, Barack. "President Obama's Remarks On Trayvon Martin Ruling". National Public Radio. July 19, 2013. NPR.org. August 10, 2013. http://www.npr.org/2013/07/19/203679977/transcript-obamas-remarks-on-trayvon-martin-ruling

 

[kwhilborn]

@ Tiassa

There are very few African American men in this country who haven't had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store. That includes me. There are very few African American men who haven't had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happens to me — at least before I was a senator. There are very few African Americans[MEN] who haven't had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had a chance to get off. That happens often.

Remove the parts I bolded and I could say this as well and consider it non racist.

Then he continues..

And I don't want to exaggerate this, but those sets of [PERCEIVED], experiences inform how the African American community interprets what happened one night in Florida.

add in my bolded word and this would also be more correct.

Mudede said,

I just want to point out two clear facts: One, had Trayvon Martin been white, he would have made it home alive. The second fact: George Zimmerman is not going to jail.

Why is what I bolded a fact. Listen to the call.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-gp8mrdw

It sounded like the boy was not walking in any direction (i.e, home), it seems like he was wandering around in the area looking at homes, and was even approaching Zimmerman with his hand in his waistband. The area had seen recent break-ins as well.

I am not defending Zimmerman because he never should have followed the boy or taken justice into his own hands, but I just listened to the call and ANYBODY WANDERING IN CIRCLES IN A NEIGHBORHOOD CHECKING OUT HOMES is likely to become a target of neighborhood watch.

I will not argue this point further however as racial violence does occur (in every direction), and race could have been a factor here. I would not say it was a fact, but I will not argue this point further.

30 years ago Mudede needed the talk. I am not sure there is as much oppression as you claim.

Even watching sitcoms people have learned the absurdity of racism. Gay and mixed couples are prevalent in our media, movies, television. I think it shows there is a lot less across the board racism in today's day and age.

You don't have a racist bone in your body? Pfft.

Even distinguishing between races as I do here is not normal conversation in my home. I have never said to my children they are "mixed", or talked to my wife about being "interracial couple". These are points I make here to demonstrate how free Toronto is.

I would love to travel to Egypt, but will not go because of travel advisories and because I am white. This is not based on racism, but because the country has noted racism towards westerners.

I do not look at anybody different. Yesterday while having BBQ a couple from Brazil came by, while a Pakistan and Turkish/Iranian Boy played with my dog. I make the race distinctions here on Sciforums, but to me they are just neighbors.

I grew up in a Printing Family, Worked as a Soil Engineer (I'm retired but do make money with projects I like), although for fun I have always enjoyed doing street magic, music. I am a licensed Busker. This means I like to do sidewalk entertaining and usually have a bag of magic items I carry with me at all times. I am not shy, and don't care if they know the language which is often the case. Some people are rude and ignore me when I say hi, but that happens with all cultures.

We had to visit a Jeweler at Malvern Mall in Toronto the other day. I think I was likely the only (only visible to me) white person in a busy mall. This is common enough, but we felt absolutely no threat of danger. People say racism still exists here, but it is not seen.

Maybe you cannot imagine people who do not consider race when they meet people. That is sad.

 

[Tiassa]

Alphaville

Maybe you cannot imagine people who do not consider race when they meet people. That is sad.

This is the weird thing about your argument; you keep switching between ignorant declarations about life in these United States and this sort of moralism.

There are people who don't consider race when they encounter other people. However, there aren't enough of them in our society.

See, you keep trying to make this personal, whether it's you and me, or Canada and the United States, but here is the underlying problem:

30 years ago Mudede needed the talk. I am not sure there is as much oppression as you claim.

Maybe you don't think things are so bad in the United States, but Mudede just wants to make sure his son comes home alive. What, exactly, is your moral objection to black parents trying to keep black children alive? Does it make white people feel badly? Oh, right, it confuses Canadians.

 

[ElectricFetus]

Nothing in that video that the people did in response was WRONG see video at 4:30 where they themselves state it was not WRONG to call 911 on the vandals regardless of color.

You did not answer my questions. I don't understand this diversion of yours about wrongness. Rather what makes it right to ignore the white vandels far more often then the black ones? What makes it right to call 911 on some people sleeping in a car.

 

[milkweed]

You did not answer my questions. I don't understand this diversion of yours about wrongness. Rather what makes it right to ignore the white vandels far more often then the black ones? What makes it right to call 911 on some people sleeping in a car.

I didnt say its right to ignore white vandals. Its a chronic complaint with law enforcement across the nation in communities of color; they dont roll over on the criminals in their own neighborhoods and that isnt racism. So lets see WWYD offer some of these comparisons in communities of color, otherwise its seems to be pretty normal human behavior.

 

[iceaura]

[quote="kwilbhorn" ] I had never heard that term before "Paki Basher" and apparently it is a British term. I suppose anything is possible, but I highly doubt that was or is true. [/quote] I, on the other hand, believe you when you claim ignorance of such things. I've seen such ignorance of even serious racial tension right in my own town, among the privileged castes, and it sounds quite familiar to me.

Pakistan was created to be a Muslim country. Toronto has the highest concentration of Muslims than any city in North America, so perhaps there is less fear of "bashers" than you would think.

I have no idea whether the kinds of thugs that act like that are capable of distinguishing between different kinds of vaguely middle eastern looking immigrants, and that has nothing to do with my post.

But your arguments against it are suspiciously specious - what difference does it make how high the percentage of Muslims is in Toronto? Racism in the US is not limited to cities with very small percentages of the despised races - quite the opposite.

btw: the city of Dearborn, Michigan, (in North America) is about a third Muslim - six times the percentage of Toronto or its "greater metro area". That does not mean the citizens of Dearborn are living together in mutual tolerance and happy lack of "care" about "race". As a matter of observation, the smaller the percentage of Muslim immigrants in a North American city the less evidence of anti-Islamic bigotry we see on the streets. At 5% and under, a lack of overt hostility is fairly common outside of the immediate reactions to events like 9/11.

 

[kwhilborn]

@ Tiassa,

... and you refuse to acknowledge Obama made racist remarks when I think you know he did.

@ Iceaura,

If you can find a single report of racist violence in my city I will not argue this further. This must be citizen vs citizen though as even police here are accused of racial profiling. I have lived in or close to Toronto most of my life and I repeat I have NEVER heard of a racist beating here during my lifetime. I also do not live a sheltered life. I have attended a major University, worked in a field involving much local travel (Soil Engineer), I have three children and also perform magic and music as a hobby. I participate in community events, I volunteer, and my busking even has shown what occurs on our streets. I do not live a sheltered life.

If you want to believe hearsay from your friend who heard a rumor once long ago then go ahead, but I know this group you speak of is a fabrication. I did/do not believe any of that for a second. The claim organized "paki bashers" exist in Toronto is ridiculous no matter what kind/colour of shoes they wear. Speak ill of your own city, but leave ours alone. I do not think anybody from Toronto would ever say such a group or even individual exists.

Here is a comment about Toronto from a Black man.

Toronto is not perfect, but as a black male in his mid twenties I have never felt overt discrimination against me except for one case where a deaf tourist appeared to make a comment to her family about me being at a restaurant with a white woman. I assume it was a tourist because I overheard some members of the group talking about "the time zone back home."

It's not to say that I don't feel out of place at times. I like to bike through ritzy neighbourhoods and look at the houses and I do sometimes feel that people are staring at me - but that's about it.

I'm more concerned about people who perceive that their race limits their socio-economic progress and as a result they don't even try.

 

[Tiassa]

The Obvious Question

Here is a comment about Toronto from a Black man.

Do you work for the tourism board, or something?

 

[kwhilborn]

I just watched 20/20 (television investigative report) regarding this case.

Race aside Treyvon seems like he was a troublemaker, pothead, who liked fighting.

The reason the kid was staying at his brothers house was because he was suspended (10 days) from school for using drugs on school premises and hitting a teacher. His mom kicked him out of his house.

He had texts on his phone indicating he was trying to buy an illegal gun.

He had texts on his phone he liked fighting with people. He hit a teacher as well.

The two of them were definitely fighting at the time of the shooting.

After watching 20/20 and hearing that this kid was into all kinds of violent criminal activities and used drugs, I am less inclined to think he was simply walking home and further believe he was checking out the homes in the area.

I am basing this opinion on the facts I listed above and not race. Anybody who gets high, likes fighting, and is looking to buy an illegal gun is not looking overly innocent.

TRAYVON MARTIN CALLS HIMSELF A "GANGSTA". His friend texted, "You are becoming a hoodlum", and Trayvon responded "No, I'm a Gangsta".

In one fight he discusses texting with his friend he won part of the fight by punching his opponent in the nose and making it bleed. Trayvon was upset there was NOT ENOUGH BLOOD and indicated he wanted more against that man.

He was also considered a good fighter by his friends as one of them sought Trayvon out as a fight trainer. Trayvon was training in MMA (mixed martial arts).

These facts sound a lot different than just imagining a helpless 17 year old boy heading straight home from a store.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUhtJizJ4Lqcr9E_l0Py-cQw&v=KPealkdfhiY
[video=youtube;KPealkdfhiY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUhtJizJ4Lqcr9E_l0Py-cQw&v=KPealkdfhiY[/video]

This just discusses the texts. The television show showed the texts.

Read some of the texts here...

HINT: CLICK THE LINK AND READ WHAT THIS "KID" WAS INTO IF YOU ARE GOING TO COMMENT ON THIS POST

http://www.wesh.com/blob/view/-/20272098/data/1/-/noqi40/-/Trayvon-Martins-text-messages.pdf

Seriously ...

He talks about $150 for a 38 ... A 22 revolver ... and his moms guns ... He says he's a Gangsta ... He fights a lot ... He hit a teacher ... He wanted more blood in the fight he discussed ... He is constantly getting high ... His own mother kicked him out of the house (bet she regrets that) ... He is forced to find another school (Skool as he spells it) ..

Even when one of his girlfriends says he is soft he responds by threatening her (in jest) with "a cold one in the chest".

HOW DOES A 17 YEAR OLD SHARE A 38 caliber handgun? He did not have enough money for a $150 gun so he asks his friend if they can share it? So does he carry it for self defense every other week? How do teenagers share illegal guns these days? I'm not up on all the gun sharing etiquette.

The kid sounds like a thug. He sounds violent and soon to be armed with a gun. It sounds like his death may have saved the life of someone innocent because ... ... ... , and he sounds like a kid that would prowl and break into peoples homes. He probably was up to no good.

But maybe he was just oppressed. Maybe his mom should have given him "The talk" about the white man holding him down.

 

[Tiassa]

Why do people who say they aren't "-ist" always do this?

In the United States, we have a nasty habit of convicting female and minority crime victims, and Florida is a hotbed for this kind of thing. You know, like the judge who puts a female child with her convicted murderer and accused child molester father because it would be too dangerous to leave a child in the custody of a lesbian. Or the jury that acquits a rapist because they thought the woman's skirt was asking for it.

I would note that black people have the same right to send atrociously misspelled text messages as white people do.

And insofar as anyone has the right to respond to sleights against his manhood with stupid machismo, yeah, black teenagers have that same right.

He sounds more like the kind of dumb-assed teenager that even some of my friends and I occasionally were. The only reason that stuff wouldn't be available for a record is because we didn't sent text messages in 1991. Seriously, nobody would have been able to exploit the text message record about my friend building a bomb because it didn't exist. Not because he never built a bomb, but because we didn't have mobile phones for SMS. There was never any text messages from me or anyone else about the time I carried a "bomb" into an airport on camera. In truth, I didn't. But people did talk about that one for a bit, and if there are no text messages about the time H and F and E took a bomb into the airport, it's because we didn't have mobile phones for SMS.

But the bottom line is that no matter how much you want to convict the victim in this case, George Zimmerman could not have known any of this when he saw his chance to whack a black kid.

And you? You don't have a racist bone in your body? Well, what reason have we to believe you? You may be up in Toronto, but you act like a whole lot of American racists. But, hey, I get it, you're in Canada so a different standard applies.

 

[Michael]

George Zimmerman could not have known any of this when he saw his chance to whack a black kid.

George Zimmerman stood up to the the police in an open forum, at great risk to himself, in defence of a homeless black man. He tutored a poor black girl in his home. He took a black girl to his prom. Oh, and according to Tiassa's theory that 'blackness' is dominant - he was black. Here's his mother's grandfather. Zimmerman, a Peruvian Black Hispanic, also pulled a family from an overturned SUV while fat middle class White Americans drove right on past them happy to not get involved.

The US needs more people like George Zimmerman.

 

[ElectricFetus]

I didnt say its right to ignore white vandals. Its a chronic complaint with law enforcement across the nation in communities of color; they dont roll over on the criminals in their own neighborhoods and that isnt racism. So lets see WWYD offer some of these comparisons in communities of color, otherwise its seems to be pretty normal human behavior.

Do you have any evidence that white vandals are a "chronic complaint with law enforcement across the nation in communities of color"? Yet somehow the burden of proof lies on WWYD and you can make such statements without any. Also you still have not answer my questions about how any "reverse" racism against whites somehow negates racism against everyone else.

 

[kwhilborn]

@ Tiassa,

If saying any kid black or white that ...

He talks about $150 for a 38 looks for a cheaper one or getting one from a cop, or wants to share it with his friend ... A 22 revolver ... and his moms guns ... He says he's a Gangsta ... He fights a lot ... He hit a teacher ... He wanted more blood in the fight he discussed ... He is constantly getting high ... His own mother kicked him out of the house (bet she regrets that) ... He is forced to find another school.

is a thug, then say what you will. If you think I am racist then you must think everyone is a racist because name one way I have shown racism? You are getting a bit nutty now.

In my day we may have pretended to shoot people with our fingers, but never actually made gun deals.
NOTE: This was a gun deal negotiation, not just pretend talk. I do not even know anyone with a handgun except online.

Only the bad kids ever hit a teacher.

Only the bad kids got kicked out of their own mothers house.

Only the bad kids got kicked out of school.

Only the bad kids did drugs all the time.

Maybe as you say this is a new norm in your area. I just hope it does not spread to here.

I now think the kid was looking to break into a house or hurt someone based on his violent attitude and "gangsta"ness. Zimmerman new that.

I think you have been arguing for this kid as a victim so much you can't even see he was not just some average teen walking home after buying candy. He was likely looking to steal a gun or money to buy a gun (based on his last phone records and not race).

 

[ElectricFetus]

The kid sounds like a thug. He sounds violent and soon to be armed with a gun. It sounds like his death may have saved the life of someone innocent because ... ... ... , and he sounds like a kid that would prowl and break into peoples homes. He probably was up to no good.

With that kind of logic we should execute most of the black population. What happen to "innocent until proven guilty" not for black people they sound like thugs, sound violent and can be armed just like any other respectable American. Black teenagers partake in thug culture just as white teenagers join cliches and "be cool": it is usually for show, you can't assume they are actual criminals... well no actually you can and kill them legally as the case of Trayvon Martin proves.