God does exist.

I stopped going, great way to meat chicks though.
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sounds more fun then just plain old meeting them.;)

as far as I can see Xianity and most religion in general is just a way to say "keep your head down, don't think too much, do your minimum wage 9-5 and you will go to heaven and have a nice afterlife (make your donations now)" in other words emotional blackmail and big business. It seems to me the money thing is the only reason the mainstream religions are not just discounted as mythology like the Roman gods and greek gods and quetzalcoatl and the ones before them and so on. at least worshiping the sun makes sense. it provides all the life giving energy we need, it shows it's self to us, it directly affects out lives. and don't get me started on the wind and rain.

/ramble
 
Can we prove that God exists.... NO!!!. If it were that easy everybody would be a Christian, noone would lie, everyone would fear God, there would be no atheists, cause everybody would be smart.
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Fear is not the world I desire to live in. Plus if there was a God and God proved Himself to us beyond a doubt, this world will be a better place guaranteed.

But anyways, to my point. This crap sounds just like how other religions are, SELF-GLORIFICATION. If you read the biblical story Job, you will understand this. Most religions seem to claim a supreme righteousness. Basically speaking, "Our religion is better then yours, we are right, so therefore you are wrong."

But I can understand your mistake for specifically mentioning "Christians," after all you are a Christian and that thinking is quite common, as for all other religions.

Instead of claiming your religion is right, why can't one ask what does God want of me? And instead of thinking about yourself and your religion, is THIS what God wants me to do? Can I just presumably claim my belief over others? Does God want that? Or am I just 'interpreting' God for my religion? Claim to be by His side and dismiss the rest?

As for in the Synoptic Gospels Mark, Mark tells a story of foolish, silly, and cowardly discipleship. Generally speaking, "Jesus! Am going to be on your right and who will be on your left? It is me right!" An excellent example to how humans think, but then in Matthew, it teachs all this humanly behavior may be overcome through faith and prayer.

Do you understand? You must know the Bible is such great literature, one could even call it art.
 
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Atheists don't believe in anything.
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No, they don't believe in your God. That's all

As far as I can see an atheist is a person who is depressed. They have no exalting view of themselves.
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Lets play spot the person who has an unhealthy psychological dependence on a social institution.

Atheists, particulary humanists(which many atheists are) have a far more "exalting" view of themselves: they believe there is no greater intelligence than themselves, they believe they need no one else but themselves to exist and that humans alone can make the world better.
 
Voodoo child:

"they believe there is no greater intelligence than themselves, they believe they need no one else but themselves to exist and that humans alone can make the world better."

I agree with your intended point of view, but I think this sentence might give many misconceptions. Atheists don't refute aliens, therefore do not dismiss that aliens might be smarter. Athiests definitely need certain bacterium to survive. Aliens could also be included in the make-the-world-better theme.;)
 
I agree with your intended point of view, but I think this sentence might give many misconceptions. Atheists don't refute aliens, therefore do not dismiss that aliens might be smarter. Athiests definitely need certain bacterium to survive. Aliens could also be included in the make-the-world-better theme.
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Granted. My comments are only applicable in reference to a deity.
 
Does God Exist?

Originally posted by Xelios
"Can we prove that God exists.... NO!!!. If it were that easy everybody would be a Christian, noone would lie, everyone would fear God, there would be no atheists, cause everybody would be smart."

Nice Job. With this paragraph you have:

a) Proved Muscleman wrong.
b) called anyone who doesn't believe in God a lier
c) made God look like some sort of dictator like Hitler and
d) called atheists and non-christians stupid.

"Atheists are - man they - can't even find a word. They are just wierd. Atheists don't believe in anything. As far as I can see an atheist is a person who is depressed. They have no exalting view of themselves. "

First off, I'm an atheist and to me Christians are weird. Atheists don't believe in God, that doesn't mean they don't believe in anything. I believe in science. I am not depressed, in fact I am far from it. A lot of the people I see depressed are Christians, I come across many more "Please pray for me I think I'm going to commit suicide" threads than I do "I don't believe in God and my life is miserable because of it" threads. If by your last statement you mean to say they are not conceited, stuck up, I'm-higher-than-you-because-I-believe-in-God types then yes, you're right.

"Physics had gone to the point of explaining that particles just "pop into existence" - in my opinion that's just paraphrasing 'God brought these particles into existence'. "

God must be one bored guy to be popping trillions of virtual particles into existance every second for the last 15 billion years don't you think? I assume that's what you're talking about, because that's the only time physics says particles simply "pop into existance".

Here's a good link for you to explore, maybe you'll see what most Christians look like from our (atheists) POV (or at least, mine):

http://vanallens.com/exchristian/2002_10_15_archive.php
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O.k. X. I addressed a-d. Now for the rest. Well part d) Everybody would be smart pertained to atheists. But I apologise for that; my bad. It was wrong for me to attack atheists like that. Atheists seem to be smart. They just apply their 'knowledge' in the wrong way.

I can see why you think Christians are wierd. I doubt you can understand though why I think atheists are "wierd". I am a very open minded person. I don't think any atheist is open minded. And open minded doesn't mean gullible. Open minded means you are willing to consider the possibility of a specific event; not just accept it like that. You got me wrong if you thought I was trying to state that Christians are better than everybody else. Christians in my and every true Christians view are not *better* than any other human being. If that were the case then we wouldn't be Christians. A Christian should reflect the image of Jesus Christ. Humble, Loving, Caring, Wise. But let's face it. Our goal is to become like Christ but that cannot be achieved in this lifetime. Christians lie, cheat, are selfish, some Christians have even committed murder once in their life - o.k. before they were Christians. Anyway, no true Christian is what you described in that paragraph.

Your paragraph about physics needs no address. O.k. one thing. God sustains the universe. I guess if those particles help in sustaining the universe present state well - He can't help it. And you sapeak as particles popping in and out of existence is the only process that sustains the universe. You need to do better than that.:confused:

One more thing, you believe in science. I believe in God. Hey, I guess we aren't all that different huh? Well I don't want to put my faith in science - it seems you have. Too many theories get thrown out the window. The Bible has been the same for over 2000 yrs. I will not dare to mention the sustainability of scientific theories. I think God works through science. Miracles - they can be explained - man just doesn't have the scientific knowledge to explain them just yet and maybe never will. God works through science - which man has just begun to understand. Have you ever read the Biible X? If you read it with an open mind you would be surprised of the parallels between scientific fact, historical fact and biblical fact. And just in case. I don't read the Bible only. I read physics, chemistry, biology, astronomy, computer, historical, paleontological text. Even text from other religions. Christianity, Judaism and maybe Islam are the most logical religions I've seen so far. The rest are too mythical for me. That's it from me X. Back to the whole point of this though. It still remains. You can't prove or disprove God's existence. Faith is what you need to believe He exists. You put your Faith in science. I put mine in the God who transcends it. Lata X.
 
Well im in this thread 500 posts too late but what the hell.

Jesus had a brother. Hes nothing special.
 
Originally posted by Dark Master


Fear is not the world I desire to live in. Plus if there was a God and God proved Himself to us beyond a doubt, this world will be a better place guaranteed.

But anyways, to my point. This crap sounds just like how other religions are, SELF-GLORIFICATION. If you read the biblical story Job, you will understand this. Most religions seem to claim a supreme righteousness. Basically speaking, "Our religion is better then yours, we are right, so therefore you are wrong."

But I can understand your mistake for specifically mentioning "Christians," after all you are a Christian and that thinking is quite common, as for all other religions.

Instead of claiming your religion is right, why can't one ask what does God want of me? And instead of thinking about yourself and your religion, is THIS what God wants me to do? Can I just presumably claim my belief over others? Does God want that? Or am I just 'interpreting' God for my religion? Claim to be by His side and dismiss the rest?

As for in the Synoptic Gospels Mark, Mark tells a story of foolish, silly, and cowardly discipleship. Generally speaking, "Jesus! Am going to be on your right and who will be on your left? It is me right!" An excellent example to how humans think, but then in Matthew, it teachs all this humanly behavior may be overcome through faith and prayer.

Do you understand? You must know the Bible is such great literature, one could even call it art. [/B]
Click to expand...

Hey Dark fearing God is like being afraid to take the antique car for a spin with the guys because when dad comes He won't be very happy. Something like that. Except God is no man. Everyone sshould ask what does God want of me? But in asking that you get the idea that God wants you to tell the world the right thing. How to be a good person. Being a good person means obeying God. Every religion states that. But every separate religion has a separate god. Excluding the 3 largest. Mine Judaism and Islam. They all share one God in a sense.

Have you ever tried to consider what it would be like if God reveiled himself as plain as the sun in the noonday sky? The world would be a boring place wouldn't it? You know in Genisis when God created man, he reveiled himself to him. But then man get led astray and took his own path [Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil]. Man decided that he doesn't need God - he can do things by himself. Then now you end up with thousands of religions and people questioning if God exists at all. God just said hey if he wants to go it alone well... Let him. That's another thing all together. The point is now you need faith to believe in God. Bevause since we got independent and went our way we can't see him anymore. So we can't be too sure he is there. But faith is the solution. You just have to put it in the right place. Lata Dark Master.
 
"Atheists seem to be smart. They just apply their 'knowledge' in the wrong way. "

That's just your opinion.

"I am a very open minded person. I don't think any atheist is open minded. And open minded doesn't mean gullible. Open minded means you are willing to consider the possibility of a specific event; not just accept it like that. "

I know what open minded is, I'm actually agnostic. I admit God may exist, but as of yet I have no reason to believe that he does. And if he does I have no reason to believe he's anything like the Biblical God.

". Christians in my and every true Christians view are not *better* than any other human being. If that were the case then we wouldn't be Christians. "

Maybe you should note MuscleMan with this, he claims to be Christian and is quite demeaning to anyone who doesn't agree with him.

"Well I don't want to put my faith in science - it seems you have. Too many theories get thrown out the window. The Bible has been the same for over 2000 yrs. "

True, but would you rather go through 3 or 4 theories and find the right one than believe one theory without ever knowing if it's right or wrong?

"I think God works through science."

Does this mean he works with the laws of physics rather than break them?

"Have you ever read the Biible X? If you read it with an open mind you would be surprised of the parallels between scientific fact, historical fact and biblical fact."

Yes, I've also read some of the Quran, and I think you would be very surprised to see just how much more the Quran agrees with modern science than the Bible does.

" You put your Faith in science. I put mine in the God who transcends it. "

In some ways I do, but there is one huge difference between the two. One supports your faith with evidence and observations, while the other simply demands that you believe.
 
You're right X. That is my opinion. But that's what you don't understand about faith. When you have faith, in something, you have strong conviction for it. So you 'know' it is true.

I guess I was wrong about athesits not being open minded. Good to know. So your only problem with God is that you need to faith to believe in him. Well from my point if view - hope you find it one day.

Well with the science thing. If you were to empathise with me you would have to realise that God exists out of the realm of science. But in our little 4 dimensional existence that is all we can say. I put my faith in God. I will not try to state the impossible. He works through science. What is science? Just basically what happens around you right? One more thing. I believe that God exists in dimensions which transcend ours 4. In physics and math [String Theory], once you exit dimension 4 physical laws go haywire. You see. Where God is concerned you can't even start to ponder how the laws of physics apply to him. You have to fully understand them first. No human does/did - except Jesus of course - not Einstien, Hawking, not Kaku, not me, not you.

About muscleman. Being a Christian isn't easy. You are supposed to be all of the above but it is hard - we are all human - noone is perfect. We are all prone to anger, hurt, and all human traits. If we overstep our bounds - which we should try not to - we ask for forgiveness.

I've never read the Quran. I will one day. Can't address that one.

And about the faith thing. I know about the other religions. I know some of their basic doctrines. And I'll stick to Christianity.
Life is a tough sell. If I'm wrong about being a Christian well the heck. I say I'm better off than any atheist still. I think science is correct in many of the theories presented. Just like any science believeing athiest. If being a christian is wrong what will be the difference at the end of my road in this human form. If Christianity is right - good for me. In an atheists position - if christianity is wrong - the heck - if it or any other religion is right - oh Hell. I'd advise you to find a religion X. Just make sure you choose the most logical one which in my opinion is Christianity. Lata X.

P.S. Do you sit and wait for these replies? You sure present rebuttals fast. More than likely you always have your e-mail up. I hope.
 
MarcAC

Just want to express my respect for you. I admit that I detest certain types of religious people, my posts show it. You are evidently not one of those. Glad to see yet another open-minded religious person. I know they abound out there, and that the hardheads we often meet on boards like this are not really true representatives of religion.

Hans

Edited to add:
Thats not to say I dont think we could have some heavy discussions, heheh.
 
As for atheists not being open minded:

Any person would be stupid to say that god doesn't exist, period (although I may have used those exact words...). If god doesn't exists, than he cannot be disproven, it is the nature of things that do not exist. Therfore we must say that there is no proof of him, therefore we should not take him into account. Saying that he neccesarily doesn't exist is blatent senslessness.
 
Hey Dark fearing God is like being afraid to take the antique car for a spin with the guys because when dad comes He won't be very happy. Something like that.
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Umm...ok, your interpretation is vague. Can people be more intellectual instead of emotional???

Everyone sshould ask what does God want of me? But in asking that you get the idea that God wants you to tell the world the right thing. How to be a good person. Being a good person means obeying God. Every religion states that.
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It was to 'show' religious people that to self-glorify themselves is just as the story in Mark about discipleship. One did not learn I see. What do you mean by "God wants you to tell the world the right thing?" You need to more specific of "right thing." But what I see of it now is, "my religion is better then yours crap." Did you get my point?

The more logical Luke through his gospel shows that he is more theological then Mark and Matthew, universalism, everyone can be saved and everyone should live in peace. You saying that God wants you to tell others the right thing is very similiar to self-glorification, that doesn't tell people specifically how people to live in peace?! Again people would misinterpret that, a MISTAKE many do with the Bible, interpretation. Let me ask you this, what is the right thing to you? Everyone being a Christian? That would be arrogance if one was to say that.

Have you ever tried to consider what it would be like if God reveiled himself as plain as the sun in the noonday sky?
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Uh yes, to be more sarcastic, "I better live by Gods rules because I don't want my ass to burn in hell!" Comprehend that? Boring place...hmmm maybe, depends on one's perspective. If God reveals Himself, crime will be reduced greatly because humans will then know what they do affects WHERE they go.

You know in Genisis when God created man, he reveiled himself to him. But then man get led astray and took his own path [Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil].
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Uh huh, yeahhh, so this is your basis to conclude the world would be a boring place??? :rolleyes: It is like backing upon God in a argument with evolution.

Then now you end up with thousands of religions and people questioning if God exists at all.
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Scholars you can call them. And the others, atheists searching for answers, having questionable faith. Many have their reasons to not believe in a God, but I, I believe in a creator. But what many QUESTION are denominations.

God just said hey if he wants to go it alone well... Let him.
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Again human interpretation of God.

The point is now you need faith to believe in God. Bevause since we got independent and went our way we can't see him anymore. But faith is the solution. You just have to put it in the right place. Lata Dark Master.
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Unquestionable faith, I believe, is a very foolish solution.
 
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