Many theists agree with this. I know this because theists are always telling me that Religion(or just God) is good because it helps people get through rough patches in their lives.
God is a crutch for the weak minded
- Thread starter Medicine*Woman
- Start date
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M*W: I'm sorry, but I don't understand your question that I've bolded. Could you please rephrase it? Thanks.
I don't see atheism as a crutch in the same context that religion is a crutch. With atheism, there is nothing tangible to hold on to nor to adhere to other than a philosophy. It is a belief and non-belief at the same time.
I don't understand how science could be a crutch, but it could possibly act as a crutch to a scientist.
Psychology, as in psychotherapy, could very well be a crutch. Psychology in itself is simply the study of the psyche. It's a science. However, I could see where a psychologist could use his profession as a crutch. I guess its all relative.
Out of the options you mentioned, a crutch is what holds someone up, it's what makes them who they want to be but not necessarily who they really are.
I would imagine that someone could be addicted to his/her career, but then that's a livelihood. Religion is not in the same category. Religion is something that people choose to use, but more truthfully, they are indoctrinated into it, and they probably fear that, without religion in their lives, they will be lost and all alone for eternity. Then they take another hit.
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M*W: Roman Catholicism.
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M*W: I agree with you on this point. If we were immortal beings, why would we need a god or religion? Yet, we are not immortal, and I still question why people need religion.
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M*W: You are wrong, of course. It has absolutely nothing to do with feeling superior to anyone. Being an atheist does not make me feel over and above anyone else. In fact, being an atheist does play an important role in my own self-identity, ego, or self-esteem. OTOH, atheism did not make me who I am today. I did that entirely on my own. It's just that atheism, or the surrendering of any god(s), gives me a higher sense of purpose than religion ever did. Religion kept telling me that I wasn't worthy to even exist, that I would always fall short of god's expectations. Atheism eliminates all that negative mind control. I'm not perfect, and I will never be, but I am finally content with myself. I didn't like the person I was when I was a christian. I always doubted myself then, but I don't doubt myself now. And I am not saying this in a tone of being superior to anyone. I'm not, and I never will be. I'm just me, and I'm finally happy with who this "me" has become.
*************Meh. God is a demanding God. Ask QThose who are "outside" of the box are more "strong minded" than the mental "weaklings" inside the box, right?
Gosh, could you tell me more of whatever :cough
M*W: Have I ever said that I believed I was "evolved to a higher state of being?" Never! It's not for me to judge my own self anyway. That is totally arrogant of which I could never be. I may come across on the forum as "holier-than-thou," but that's not my nature. I could never go back into the box of religious indoctrinization. I can't even say that my parents indoctrinated me into a particular relgion. They didn't. They weren't particularly happy when I told them I was converting to catholicism. They accepted my decision and shut-up about it. I put my heart, mind, soul and my strength into my faith, butd one day I woke up and saw the dark addiction to religious delusion.
The concept of being in the "box" is a relative concept. Those who are content living in the box with strict parameters can stay there if they choose. OTOH, one can only see the light when he decides to climb out of the box.
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M*W: Yes, I do realize that some children of atheists may believe in god(s). I was one of them for a time. Even though I raised my children as christians, I had to leave them behind spiritually, because they wanted to live in their trite little world of fear, hell and damnation. I am not saying that I have rejected my children. That would never happen. I just found a better way to use my mind, and getting crammed into that box of delusion just didn't do anything for me. We discuss things now, but I would never try to force them to think the way I think, and they know that I have made my own choice and they respect that. I was the one who made them go to church, and all I can say now is that I'm sorry. I was wrong for doing that, and I was blind but now I know the truth.
I've studied many religions, and I'm not finished studying religions--even as an atheist, I still thirst for the knowledge of what makes people think they need the crutch of religion.
// conjures an image of a very weak minded atheist grasping at straws to keep their beliefs (unbeliefs?) alive
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"woke up","only see the light" are suggestive of thinking that you have... progressed(?) in thinking to a better state than those who choose to be "inside the box" and thus are asleep and indarkness. Perhaps you should consider using a different method of speech to get your ideas across without maligning the intellect of those who might disagree with you. I was an atheist for awhile, but I found it more difficult to have faith in 'God not' than to have faith in God is. If I therefore say I escaped the "prison of disbelief" and that my "eyes were opened to the truth", doesn't this suggest that those who are within the "prison", with their "eyes closed" are in some way more limited in mental or spiritual capacity than I am? Doesn't this suggest a thinking that I have evolved further than they? Like I said, simply say what you mean and mean what you say, perhaps with some simpler, less egotistic language?
Asguard-I've stated in political forums that human beings are, on a basic level, incompetent. To achieve a truly functioning world government it would need to control all most all levels of individual freedom. To include making decisions against an individual's personal beliefs. If I take on the belief that I could fly unaided if I got a long enough running start to a high enough cliff, someone should step in and restrain me from attempting the maneuver and if possible correct my thinking. If I take on the belief that pigs are plotting to take over the world, so long as I do not harm myself or anyone else with this belief, to include property damge/animal cruelty, I should be allowed to believe this.
i guess i must be 'enlightened' then, because i know that i can't die. buddhists and hindus also know that they are immortal, because otherwise they wouldn't follow a religion where the goal is to cure immortality.
if we were physically immortal, religion would be even more important, and the world would be a mess. living forever would make you crazy. the reason that we don't go crazy even though we are immortal is because we die and forget.
Medicine*Woman said:
i agree that christianity seems to have a negative worldview, but everyone's different, and for some people christianity is the greatest thing in the world.
some people go crazy even though they only live for 72 years. now imagine what would happen if people lived for 72 trillion years, which is an infinitely short time in eternity. because everyone is immortal, there would probably be 72 trillion humans on earth and many other planets too. physical immortality just wouldn't work.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Oh yes, like everything else, there are exceptions. So what?
The vast majority have been indoctrinated, many, many millions of children.
Sorry Hammy, it doesn't work that way.
There IS evidence of the Big Bang, despite your lack of knowledge in that area. Scientific theory does not require common acceptance, it requires testing and rigor.
Do you know what 'rigor' is, Mr. Ham?
And one more thing, it isn't the atheist who would state that he has no proof of god, instead it would be the atheist asking for evidence from the theist, who would be the one responding that he has none.
Then, you were never an atheist, as they would never use "faith" to distinguish their lack of belief.
From your words, it would suggest that there is no thought process in your decision making process, only the use of "faith." I see no mental capacity.
That is exactly what Asguard is referring, to those who refuse medical treatment for their children based on their religious beliefs. Seems you agree with him.
I agree for some weak minded it is a crutch...those are the ones that want to beat you over the head with their religion until you submit. But is does not need to be a crutch. It depends on how one uses religion. What does someone want to get out of religion? If the follower wants personal wealth, health, eternal life, then it is a crutch. If however, one uses religion to develop the self and gain a better understanding of ones place in the universe...it is not being used as a crutch. Religion is in that case being practiced in its highest form.
How would atheism be a crutch? Are you saying people turn to their lack of belief in YOUR god, for example, to help them through life? That's quite funny, actually.
If people are dying from a particular disease and medical science has the cure, then perhaps science could be considered a crutch.
Not sure how that's a bad thing, though? :shrug:
Simon Anders
Valued Senior Member
Even if it is incorrect, you should realize how possible it is. Do you not feel superior to those you consider 'weak mnded' who need a crutch?
You can at least see how it might seem likely one would take that as you are superior since you are not weak minded and do not need this crutch. Your 'of course' is odd and rather damning.
Sounds like you chose religions with a lot of cultural shit in them. You also seem to be confusing theism with organized religions and probably Abahamic ones.
This is wishful thinking. It may eliminate certain kinds of negative mind control, but it does very little to protect the mind in general.
Well, it sounds like you have made a good decision for yourself. But it also seem like you are projecting your own use of religion onto all theists.
And you must be able to see how it is implicit in the title of the thread that you consider yourself no longer 'weak minded' or needing the 'crutch' that theists have and in this way superior.