God is Absurd

[SnakeLord]

'Religon' is such a loose term for what we are talking about. As when it comes down to it religon is a belief system mostly concerning a divine being. therefore atheists are 'religous'.

Some certainly use the term loosely - in which case going to camera club is a 'religion', but the generally understood and agreed definition would be more along the lines of:

'a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.'

Atheists do not have a moral code, ritual observances, and most certainly do not have belief in gods. Atheism is not a religion..

Dont you think it is but naive to think that if there wasnt what you call 'religon' there wouldnt be any daily worldwide mayhem/death/destruction?

Disagreement causes problems - that's a given. I think we can say with some confidence that religion is the ultimate disagreement - and thus causes the greatest problems.

Without being rude, i would presume you have a certain liking to Richard Dawkins,( a ridiculously intelligent scientist/atheist an admirable man) ?

Not entirely, although I think it's a good step when someone goes to lengths to make the debate public.

When people use his arguments it shows two things 1, they cant formulate their own and

This is actually incorrect. Many of us here have been using these arguments for decades - indeed long before anyone really knew who he was. Mark Twain used many of those same arguments and I doubt you'll manage to convince me that Twain stole them off Dawkins, (considering Twain died almost 100 years ago).

2, that they have a hard time understanding the true meaning of love as he obviously but sadly has an absence of it in his life.

Debating issues and being frank while debating them is not a sign that one has no love in their life.

Now to put love down to chemicals and science besides from being extremely cold hearted, sorry 'minded', also suggests we have nothing but instincts like animal, well in that case speak for yourself

But we are animals - and I see no reason to somehow be upset by that. Love still exists whether it's chemicals or magical pixies.. why be upset over it? (It is also essential to species survival).

love... oh wait he does want to be bigger than god which i guess means he loves himself

Entirely possible, but one loving oneself does not mean a debate against another persons claims are not valid.

Dinners ready gotta go!

Enjoy

 

[lightgigantic]

The Bible says God is within us as well, though...

the BG quote says that god is within us and also independently outside of us

9.4 - "By Me, in My unmanifested form, this entire universe is pervaded. All beings are in Me, but I am not in them."

Just because something is absurd, it doesn't make it non-existent. Take Britney Spears, for instance.

if that's the case it still doesn't explain why you hold that god cannot be a person on the grounds of absurdity

 

[QuisUtDeus]

And atheists don't do good work while they're alive?
BTW devote (= devout?) atheists?

(devote, i knew it didnt look right!)

Of cousre they do thats why i put "who spread the hatred of god" (excluding the ones that dont).

I assume you mean sincere rather than "devoted to religion.
They don't (and can't) spread "hatred of god" since they don't believe he exists.

sorry the hate of believing in a god.

Misquote:
I didnt write this:
"1. Devoted to religion or to the fulfillment of religious obligations. See Synonyms at religious.
2. Displaying reverence or piety.
3. Sincere; earnest:"

Except, presumably, the after life since you weren't a believer.

Thats what it says

Agnostics and atheists just worry about being good people, rather than mess about with "sin".

Not all agnostics and atheists are good people or worry about it for that matter. Do you even know what sin is? Oh and where do you think you get your morals for being a good person from?

I get it: you want us to be hypocrites.

Within that quote when using the word 'you' i mean non-believers and believers alike. Being a hypocrite is a hard thing to escape from and it is not what i intended to be understood by that comment so sorry for my lack of intellectual clarity.

 

[QuisUtDeus]

Ok our argument now has to be halted by belief. For we could go on and on. Where my voice box triumphs my fingers and spelling fail

But we are animals - and I see no reason to somehow be upset by that. Love still exists whether it's chemicals or magical pixies.. why be upset over it? (It is also essential to species survival).

I understand my biological exisitance i dont get upset by it either. I just think there is more to it than that. The chemicals or the magical pixies in my head wont allow me to see that the beauty of you, me or this crazy existence of eternity has not been created by an extraordinary being. The chemicals and pixies have also shown me what true love is (im not just talking about shakespeare love either) and i can tell you, dawkins aint got it.

 

[Oli]

sorry the hate of believing in a god.

No hate involved.
You're misreading things.

Misquote:
I didnt write this:

Not a misquote: if you READ my post I gave a definition of religion - one that excludes atheism.

Thats what it says

So agnosticism isn't a good bet either... contrary to your contention:

However being agnostic is the super easy option as it gives you the best of both worlds.

Not all agnostics and atheists are good people or worry about it for that matter.

And neither are all theists - your point?

Do you even know what sin is?

Supposedly not following "god's" laws, which cannot apply to atheists.

Oh and where do you think you get your morals for being a good person from?

Do tell, but I bet you don't mention the bit about it being hard-wired into the brain, part of our genetic make-up.

Within that quote when using the word 'you' i mean non-believers and believers alike. Being a hypocrite is a hard thing to escape from and it is not what i intended to be understood by that comment so sorry for my lack of intellectual clarity.

Nope: you suggested

So why not nurture both sides of your assumed existance... Fair enough, You will never understand the mystery of gods love, but the benefits of believing,

I.e. start believing as if we could turn it on like a tap.
Since belief isn't a "I'll decide that from today I'm going to believe, even though everything I know disagrees with with that belief" thing then hypocrisy is the only choice - feign belief.

 

[QuisUtDeus]

Short of writing a book you wont be able to understand anything i write here. I can not elaborate on sentences making you understand what i believe. So ill leave it at you are misunderstanding the message i am trying to get across. I also cant portray sarcasm through words as well as i presumed.

Everything i have said thus should be ignored as immaterial. None of it can be right, i take it all back for the intellectual demands of me articulating my beliefs and reasons are too high, and i just cant say its the truth... lets just wait and see.

God bless you.

 

[Oli]

Short of writing a book you wont be able to understand anything i write here.

Make sure you get a spell and grammar checker - good ones.

I can not elaborate on sentences making you understand what i believe. So ill leave it at you are misunderstanding the message i am trying to get across.

Or you're incoherent.

I also cant portray sarcasm through words as well as i presumed.

[sarcasm] I hadn't noticed. [/sarcasm]

Everything i have said thus should be ignored as immaterial.

Or wrong.

None of it can be right, i take it all back for the intellectual demands of me articulating my beliefs and reasons are too high, and i just cant say its the truth... lets just wait and see.

Sarcasm?
If not, congrats on the realisation.

God bless you.

No thanks.

 

[SnakeLord]

The chemicals or the magical pixies in my head wont allow me to see that the beauty of you, me or this crazy existence of eternity has not been created by an extraordinary being.

Well it's one of those things. I obviously don't see the beauty that you see in say.. cancer, millions starving because there's no rain, or candiru - those little catfish that swim up the end of your penis and latch on.

This god being of yours chose to make those things? He chose for some peculiar reason to create an animal that spends it's entire life pushing around a ball of animal turd? What a weirdo :bugeye:

 

[QuisUtDeus]

Ok if you don't want a blessing from god. Then perhaps i wish you happiness in the little time you have on this world.

 

[Oli]

Ok if you don't want a blessing from god. Then perhaps i wish you happiness in the little time you have on this world.

In which case, I thank you.

 

[SnakeLord]

Ok if you don't want a blessing from god.

It's not about "want", it's about inability. You touched on it in your very last post:

"The chemicals or the magical pixies in my head wont allow me"

You must understand that the same applies to other people as well as yourself. I'm sorry but those chemicals or pixies wont allow me to believe in gods without tangible evidence - along with leprechauns, werewolves blah de blah. I just can't do it, I am utterly incapable.

Such is the way I was created.

 

[QuisUtDeus]

Well it's one of those things. I obviously don't see the beauty that you see in say.. cancer, millions starving because there's no rain, or candiru - those little catfish that swim up the end of your penis and latch on.

This god being of yours chose to make those things? He chose for some peculiar reason to create an animal that spends it's entire life pushing around a ball of animal turd? What a weirdo :bugeye:

cancer god didnt create.
Millions starving again god didnt create in fact is that not just a product of our lack of charity nothing to do with weather.

there is an answer to all of them. Look ultimately
for the those that believe no proof is necessary for those that dont no proof is enough...

 

[SnakeLord]

cancer god didnt create.
Millions starving again god didnt create in fact is that not just a product of our lack of charity nothing to do with weather.

I see. All those things that aren't nice wasn't god, it was evil fairies - and god, in his infinite wisdom doesn't know about it and can't fix the problem. Instead he just sits there with a smile while child after child dies in the most disgustingly painful way imaginable. There's even some kids that are allergic to sunlight.. I suppose that's their fault.

It's all good though, these things do not discriminate. They kill everyone regardless to how much they love and worship sky beings.

 

[QuisUtDeus]

It's not about "want", it's about inability. You touched on it in your very last post:

"The chemicals or the magical pixies in my head wont allow me"

You must understand that the same applies to other people as well as yourself. I'm sorry but those chemicals or pixies wont allow me to believe in gods without tangible evidence - along with leprechauns, werewolves blah de blah. I just can't do it, I am utterly incapable.

Such is the way I was created.

dont care for grammer or punct:

to be fair the argument on my side there is more than chemicals at work in your head. Fundamentally (not a great topic to be bring to the surface) all your decisions in life are influenced by spirits . There is a whole science behind it many books far thicker than the bible or the god delusion have been written on this subject.

to give u a touch on the theory. There are nine choirs of angels each one serving a different purpose. Now the same difference between a dog and human in intelligence is the same between human and the first choir of angels. simile the same between the second and third etc all the way to the ninth . when god tested the angels lucifer fell and became satan and set out to decieve this world leaving it godless and engulfing the souls into an abyss. Angels are spirits and only become angels if they relay msgs to man. These spririts influence both good and bad influence your every day decisions using their ridiculous intellect (note i am personifing them when infact i have no idea of how they relate visually or physically). the bad influences having coming from satans and good come from gods spirits. So in satans almost infinite intellect he can trick you in ways you wouldnt even be able to imagine with out the grace of god you are powerless. No manly intellect alone can evade his influence.

that is why i believe.

 

[SnakeLord]

all your decisions in life are influenced by spirits which you can control but sub conciously choose not to. There is a whole science behind it

Science heh? :bugeye:

when god tested the angels lucifer fell and became satan and set out to decieve this world leaving it godless and engulfing the souls into an abyss.

Ok, god should have been paying attention. If he utilised his omniscience he would have known about his creation problem before he made it and thus the whole thing could have been avoided.

No manly intellect alone can evade his influence.

That's handy. What kind of idiot made it that way?

 

[QuisUtDeus]

I see. All those things that aren't nice wasn't god, it was evil fairies - and god, in his infinite wisdom doesn't know about it and can't fix the problem. Instead he just sits there with a smile while child after child dies in the most disgustingly painful way imaginable. There's even some kids that are allergic to sunlight.. I suppose that's their fault.

It's all good though, these things do not discriminate. They kill everyone regardless to how much they love and worship sky beings.

again you have no understanding of the being you don't believe in. Read up about it before you make an opinionated uneducated assumption. Dont you think you should know what you are talking about before you make ridiculous arguments that are explained in the beliefs doctrine. Do you think out of all the millions who believe they haven't questioned this? Some times peoples arrogance is so embarrassing.

 

[QuisUtDeus]

Science heh? :bugeye:



Ok, god should have been paying attention. If he utilised his omniscience he would have known about his creation problem before he made it and thus the whole thing could have been avoided.



That's handy. What kind of idiot made it that way?

Ooooooh, ive never thought of that before and neither has any one in the past 4000 years!.
Damn youve got me.
Read up about it learn both sides before you formulate an argument.

 

[VitalOne]

Do you claim to understand an omniscient being? Anyone who claims to know that an omniscient being exists probably has no idea what they are talking about. How can you claim to know someone who is so beyond our little minds? Hence, the agnostic one is the wise one.

I'm not an atheist. I'm agnostic.

Well, I claim to do understand how God exists...its not really that complicated...I mean just medidate upon "true knowledge of how God exists" and then you'll get the answer...and by medidate I mean sustained concentration...

 

[Oli]

dont care for grammer or punct:

Really?
Too difficult?
Or just can't be bothered to communicate properly?

to be fair the argument on my side there is more than chemicals at work in your head. Fundamentally (not a great topic to be bring to the surface) all your decisions in life are influenced by spirits .

Nice argument.
Any evidence?

There is a whole science behind it many books far thicker than the bible or the god delusion have been written on this subject.

I bet it's not actually science.
When did the thickness of a book define its worth?

to give u a touch on the theory. There are nine choirs of angels each one serving a different purpose.

Speculation.

Now the same difference between a dog and human in intelligence is the same between human and the first choir ... [large portion of speculation excised] ...vade his influence.

Speculation.

that is why i believe.

Because it was in a thick book?

again you have no understanding of the being you don't believe in.

I think you're picking on the wrong guy (way wrong) here.
Just letting you know.

Read up about it before you make an opinionated uneducated assumption. Dont you think you should know what you are talking about before you make ridiculous arguments that are explained in the beliefs doctrine. Do you think out of all the millions who believe they haven't questioned this?

Um, you're accusing SnakeLord of being uneducated on the subject?

Some times peoples arrogance is so embarrassing.

You got it.
But mistook who's being arrogant.

[Edit]
You have the user name "Quis Ut Deus" and accuse someone else of arrogance? :wtf:

 

[QuisUtDeus]

Being eristic isnt my strong point so ill leave that to you. But you obviously are uneducated on the subject otherwise the arguments wouldnt be so primative and ... well uneducated. My belief is actually based on personal experience the books just confirm it.