Gun sales and safety both at all time high

[cluelusshusbund]

Hmmm... Which one do you suppose she had in mind?

TOP DEFINITION
swamp slug
1. A muck feeder
2. A devious, toothless, thieving, filthy, mooching, slut, who has been ran through by all the dirtiest people in the worst part of town. That will steal everything she can get away with even down to ur dirty underwear. After she smells them.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=swamp slug

I always thout she ment it in a positive way... but aparently she was just projectin her own attributes cause she fits definition number 2 to a T... an i shoud have guessed sinse it was her an her boyfrind who named me "cluelusshusbund"... but i still love her tho.!!!

 

[Oystein]

... but i still love her tho.!!!

Lucky her.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Lucky her.

Yeah... an she still loved me to until i got a stroke an coudnt make good money anymore... but the straw that broke the camels back was her embarrassment of me bein in a wheel chair.!!!

 

[Syne]

Well, you've picked the right subforum to make your scientific case in support of that assertion.

Have at it.

While my sense of training impact on safety is from personal experience, here's a few things that might lend my experience credence beyond the purely anecdotal:

OBJECTIVES:
The purpose of this study was to determine if firearm safety training increased the knowledge of school-age children about gun safety.
...
CONCLUSIONS:
This study provides evidence that children do retain firearm safety training. The long-term objective of this research is to reduce the incidence of firearm injuries during childhood by teaching children how to be safe around guns.
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16027585


Responsible Gun Ownership: Training and Licensing

Soon after motor vehicles became popular in the early twentieth century, almost every European country and every state in the U.S. adopted a law requiring drivers to undergo testing and obtain a license before they got behind the wheel. Like motor vehicles, firearms require certain knowledge and skills in order to be handled with minimal risk to self or others. Yet there is no national requirement that firearm owners be trained or that they demonstrate any knowledge about the safe handling of firearms. Only six states have enacted laws of this kind so far.

Laws that require an individual to obtain a license or permit for purchase or possession of a firearm can facilitate responsible firearm use by ensuring that an applicant knows how to safely load, fire and store a gun, and has knowledge of relevant firearms laws. These laws can utilize written and performance-based tests to determine whether an applicant for a license has these qualifications. These laws can also prevent access to firearms by unqualified individuals by requiring firearm sellers to ensure that buyers have the appropriate license.

Massachusetts, for example, currently requires an applicant for a firearm license to receive training in: (1) the safe use, handling and storage of firearms; (2) methods for securing and childproofing firearms; (3) the applicable laws relating to the possession, transportation and storage of firearms; and (4) knowledge of operation, potential dangers and basic competency in the ownership and usage of firearms. Connecticut, Hawaii, Maryland, and Rhode Island have similar requirements. In California, anyone purchasing a handgun must obtain a Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC) prior to purchase. To obtain a HSC, the applicant must pass a written safety test. In addition, subject to limited exceptions, all handgun purchasers are required to perform a safe handling demonstration with the handgun being purchased in the presence of a certified instructor.
California law specifies various safe handling tasks the prospective purchaser must perform based on the type of handgun to be purchased.
- http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-safety-...-for-a-more-secure-america/#TrainingLicensing


This study sought to determine the impact of brief office counseling by family physicians on patients' firearm storage habits. It was found that 64% of the patient group receiving verbal counseling and 58% of the group receiving verbal counseling plus written information made a safe change in gun storage compared with 33% of participants in the no-intervention group, indicating a significant, positive impact of physician counseling.

This study examined the association of parent safety consciousness in other household respects to firearm safety practices. Researchers found that general home safety practices did not predict safe firearm storage; respondents who used most of the injury prevention practices were no more likely to store firearms within the home safely than those who reported few injury prevention practices.
- http://www.kingcounty.gov/depts/hea...olence/LOK-IT-UP/firearm-safety-research.aspx
​

The last one excludes general safety consciousness as a factor in gun safety.

 

[Syne]

I've heard this from some podcasters near Chicago.

In Illinois, it's like 5 hours instruction, including videos, and a half hour of range time, where the instructor doesn't even watch, max range 30 feet. And a take home multiple choice test where you can pass with 70%.

Maybe a podcast isn't the most accurate source:

The state police issue licenses for the concealed carry of handguns to qualified applicants age 21 or older who pass a 16-hour training course. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Illinois#cite_note-3

16 hours of Concealed Carry firearms training provided by an ISP approved Instructor.- https://www.ispfsb.com/Public/CCL.aspx

What does the firearms training course consist of?
A 16 hour training course must, at a minimum, cover the following topics:​

1. 1. Firearms Safety - a minimum of 1 hour;
   2. Basic Principles of Marksmanship - a minimum of 1 hour;
   3. Care, Cleaning, Loading and Unloading of a Concealable Firearm - a minimum of 1 hour;
   4. All Applicable State and Federal Laws Relating to the Ownership, Storage, Carry and Transportation of a Firearm (including but not limited to the appropriate and lawful interaction with law enforcement while transporting or carrying a concealed firearm) - a minimum of 2 hours; and
   5. Weapons Handling - a minimum of 1 range hour.
      All applicants must pass a live fire exercise with a concealable firearm consisting of:
      1. A minimum of 30 rounds
      2. 10 rounds from a distance of 5 yards, 10 rounds from a distance of 7 yards, and 10 rounds from a distance of 10 yards at a B-27 silhouette target approved by the ISP.

- https://www.ispfsb.com/Public/Faq.aspx
​

Unless facing an armed attacker, the greater the distance of a self-defense shooting the less likely a self-defense argument will fly in court. This is why they train at average distances of self-defense shootings.

Nonetheless, the statistics on gun deaths are still astounding. It's come to the point where the average American's death is just as likely to be caused by a gunshot as by a road accident. Compare this to Japan, which has fewer than ten gun deaths per year.

Motor vehicle accidents are in the top 10, but where are the gun deaths?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-leading-causes-of-death-in-the-us/

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm

http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20160701/top-10-death-causes

During that same year the FBI recorded 8,124 murders by firearms in the United States, a statistic that would indeed rank below all other entries on this list. - http://www.snopes.com/causes-of-death-2016/​

Personally, I think you're full of it. How do you account for the much larger drop between say, 1993 and 2000? As opposed to the near zero change of 2001 and 2013?

You're obviously conflating accidental gun deaths with gun deaths in general. They're not the same thing.

 

[Syne]

Any plausibility in the claim that the minimal skill and care improvements available from these concealed carry permit requirements are responsible for a significant drop in accident rates is an indictment of the prior gun ownership situation.

No doubt. It seems that people interested in legally carrying are a bit more responsible.

 

[Oystein]

It seems that people interested in legally carrying are a bit more responsible.

It seems like the Sun is revolving around the Earth -- that doesn't make it true.

 

[Syne]

It seems like the Sun is revolving around the Earth -- that doesn't make it true.

Bravo! The most trivial post I've read in months.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

When I was eight years old my grandfather placed a 12 gauge in my hands and asked "Is it loaded? I said" I dont know".. He said "Yes you do a gun is always loaded and never point it unless you plan to shoot it". I never forgot basic but way to go.
Alex

 

[Oystein]

Bravo! The most trivial post I've read in months.

I was just mimicking your trivial statement. Why don't you back up your banal statement with a fact or two. Oh, I forgot. You're a Trump supporter. Facts aren't needed.

 

[Randwolf]

You're obviously conflating accidental gun deaths with gun deaths in general. They're not the same thing.

The graphs show the same trend over the same time period. So, once again, how do you account for the huge drop from the 90's to the turn of the century?

Also known as "What's the next moronic objection?"

http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/accidental-deaths/

While we're on the subject, let's see if you can pick out the problem most in need of a solution:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/03/us/gun-deaths-united-states/

 

[spidergoat]

The state police issue licenses for the concealed carry of handguns to qualified applicants age 21 or older who pass a 16-hour training course.

That's why I said it's a joke. The law was not enforced. Basically, any idiot can get one if they have the $900 fee.

 

[Randwolf]

Have you taken one? Which state?

I have. Florida. Circa 30 years ago. Have they changed?

Because if not, spidergoat is right - I saw the class composition and any moron could get one for a few hours of time and a few hundred dollars - even some esteemed members of Sci such as yourself.

 

[Syne]

I was just mimicking your trivial statement. Why don't you back up your banal statement with a fact or two. Oh, I forgot. You're a Trump supporter. Facts aren't needed.

I was making an observation, not a trivial assertion. And you'd know I don't support Trump, if you paid any attention whatsoever.

The graphs show the same trend over the same time period. So, once again, how do you account for the huge drop from the 90's to the turn of the century?

Also known as "What's the next moronic objection?"

http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/accidental-deaths/

From your own link:

"Fact: Only 2% of gun deaths are from accidents, and some insurance investigations indicate that many of these may not be accidents after all." - http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/accidental-deaths/#note-83-5​

So as gun deaths plummet, so would those potentially misreported as accidents.
And just like every Obama speech about gun control boosted both guns sales and carry permits, the '94 assault weapons ban galvanized many people into exercising their rights.

While we're on the subject, let's see if you can pick out the problem most in need of a solution:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/03/us/gun-deaths-united-states/

For one, those don't have mutually exclusive solutions. Choosing between them is a false dilemma.
For two:

That's why I said it's a joke. The law was not enforced. Basically, any idiot can get one if they have the $900 fee.

Can you support that assertion?

I have. Florida. Circa 30 years ago. Have they changed?

Because if not, spidergoat is right - I saw the class composition and any moron could get one for a few hours of time and a few hundred dollars - even some esteemed members of Sci such as yourself.

Florida law requires you to submit proof of competency with a firearm in order to qualify for a concealed weapon license. A copy of a CERTIFICATE OF COMPLETION or similar document from any of the following courses or classes is acceptable:

• Any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or a similar agency in another state;
• Any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;
• Any firearm safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement agency, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, the Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission, or the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services;
• Any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;
• Any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state-certified instructor or by an instructor certified by the National Rifle Association.

- http://www.freshfromflorida.com/Div...pon-License/Acceptable-Training-Documentation​

Apparently I live in a state with higher training requirements.

 

[Randwolf]

I was making an observation, not a trivial assertion.

All that bullshit... and still no answer...

So, once again, how do you account for the huge drop from the 90's to the turn of the century? Get with the program Syne - answer the question.

And you'd know I don't support Trump, if you paid any attention whatsoever.

No, what I'd know is that like roughly half of his previous "supporters" you pretend to say "What? Who? Trump? What?" - while mouth breathing the talking points and knuckle dragging your way off...

 

[Syne]

I was making an observation, not a trivial assertion.

All that bullshit... and still no answer...

So, once again, how do you account for the huge drop from the 90's to the turn of the century? Get with the program Syne - answer the question.

Already asked and answered. But way to demonstrate your intellectual dishonesty but selectively failing to quote it.

And you'd know I don't support Trump, if you paid any attention whatsoever.

No, what I'd know is that like roughly half of his previous "supporters" you pretend to say "What? Who? Trump? What?" - while mouth breathing the talking points and knuckle dragging your way off...

And you're more than happy to make assumptions that enable you to demonize everyone not on the left-pole.
Habitual liars assume most people are as well.

 

[iceaura]

And just like every Obama speech about gun control boosted both guns sales and carry permits,

Never happened. The huge boom in gun and ammo sales after Obama was elected happened independently of anything he said in any of his speeches.

 

[spidergoat]

Can you support that assertion?

It's not particularly extraordinary, but yes, I'll give you a link to that episode as soon as I can find it.

 

[Syne]

It's not particularly extraordinary, but yes, I'll give you a link to that episode as soon as I can find it.

Hearsay on a podcast doesn't really support an assertion of fact, e.g. "The law was not enforced."

And just like every Obama speech about gun control boosted both guns sales and carry permits,

Never happened. The huge boom in gun and ammo sales after Obama was elected happened independently of anything he said in any of his speeches.

Still denying facts?

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/12/10/us/gun-sales-terrorism-obama-restrictions.html
Can you remember what happened Dec '15? San Bernardino.

This matches a pattern we've seen plenty of times in the past: tragedy, followed by calls for gun control, followed by surging firearm sales. Interest in concealed-carry permits has generally followed a similar pattern. - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...bama-gun-restrictions/?utm_term=.889a95ff9fbb​

 

[spidergoat]

Hearsay on a podcast doesn't really support an assertion of fact, e.g. "The law was not enforced."

These two guys actually went to get their carry permits, and were just talking about what happened. They aren't anti-gun or anything.
http://dissonancepod.com/episode-306-5-concealed-carry-breakfast-club/