Homo naledi update.

Pinball1970

Pinball1970

Valued Senior Member
Hope fully I will be forgiven for starting another thread on this but there have been some important updates.

Very heavy criticism of the papers conclusions and methodology.

www.gmu.edu

George Mason researcher debunks popular narrative about ancient human ancestors

Did Homo naledi bury their dead? A Netflix documentary says yes, but new research published by George Mason anthropology professor Kimberly Foecke says no.
www.gmu.edu www.gmu.edu

Prior to that there was this:


and prior to that 11/12 negative reviews of the papers they published on the finds.

A reminder of those papers here and reviews here from Gutsick Gibbon

-The video is 2:33 so I have time stamped it here.

0-5mins. Intro. The discovery of the fossils and caves. 2x dozen individuals, 300,000 years old, presentations, controversy.
8:00 Peer review, Elife process

19:55 BURIAL PRE PRINT
21:54 Peer review 1
38:22 Peer review 2
45:59 Peer review 3
57:28 Peer review 4

1:06:58 Summary. All negative.

1:08:09 CAVE ART PAPER
1:19:20 Peer review 1 (neutral)
1:21:20 Peer review 2
1:31:59 Peer review 3 (tool shaped comment)
1:38:52 Peer review 4

1:41:20 SMALL BRAIN PAPER
1:42:45 Peer review 1
1:44:04 Peer review 2 "perilous ramifications" "easier to introduce than correct."
1:46:42 Peer review 3

1:47:42 Summary 10 negative 1 neutral

1:48:36 Author response

2:15:00 Gustik discussion.
 
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Gawdzilla Sama said:
The Rising Star Cave will continue to generate controversial information for a good long while.
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The controversy is not in the claims as such it is obviously a very important and significant find.
The community appear to be in agreement on that.
The controversy is the standard of the papers, timing and mode publication using E life.
Experts in the field, including references that Berger has cited, have criticised the methodology and analysis very heavily.
 
Gawdzilla Sama said:
T/Y, didn't expect that tack.
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I have been lazy and copied from another site, no point in doing it twice.

In short, the intentional burial claims have been savaged, not because the claim may be incorrect, but because the quality of the study supporting claim is poor. See below.

Latest instalment from Foecke, Queffelek and Pickering.

Paper here.


An article here:


"From poor research design through misapplication of simple statistics, the problems continued to multiply. Foecke and her team, which included Alain Queffelec of the Université Bordeaux in France and Robyn Pickering at the University of Cape Town in South Africa, re-analyzed the original data and discovered that none of the soil differences indicating a burial were actually present in the data."
 
Gawdzilla Sama said:
Okay, so how did they get down there?
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That is the million dollar question and not the only one. Why are all the individuals so alike? Morphologically?
Erika describes the finds like one "inbred family."

Put a gun to my head? I would say funeral cache. Dead bodies are a risk to the tribe, they stink, attract predators and also are a disease risk so they needed to be got rid of.

Why are all the individuals so alike? Isolated tribe? Don't know.
 
Having driven from Cairo to Cape Town I can say that carrion stinks a long way off when conditions are ... ripe.

Have they found any predator skeletons down there? If not then my SWAG is that they were covering the bodies up.
 
Gawdzilla Sama said:
Having driven from Cairo to Cape Town I can say that carrion stinks a long way off when conditions are ... ripe.

Have they found any predator skeletons down there? If not then my SWAG is that they were covering the bodies up.
Click to expand...
No that's the other very curious thing, virtually all samples they found were from the same species, Homo naledi. They found a few baboon bones but that's it.
If natural process washed things down we should expect a Mish mash but we don't get that.
This is why funeral cache is a good candidate, other animals do it.
 
Gawdzilla Sama said:
Having driven from Cairo to Cape Town I can say that carrion stinks a long way off when conditions are ... ripe.

Have they found any predator skeletons down there? If not then my SWAG is that they were covering the bodies up.
Click to expand...

Anyway we have another paper on the way. A biggie. Since most of the work has centred around geology, sedimentology and ancient burial expertise I will leave this to the experts and report on their review.
 
I appear to have stumbled into the middle of a report so I don't know the premise. A mass grave has been found in S.Africa that contains specimens from a community that's known to be too far away?
 
DaveC426913 said:
I appear to have stumbled into the middle of a report so I don't know the premise. A mass grave has been found in S.Africa that contains specimens from a community that's known to be too far away?
Click to expand...
Hi Dave,
Yes it's a huge deal.
I'll mail you
Tony
 
RE: Homo naledi update.
SUBTOPIC: Ancient Civilizations and Funerary Rites and Burial Rituals
⁜→ Pinball1970, Gawdzilla Sama, et al,

I am not known for my contributions, just lurking in the back row. But I see some brilliant ideas here.

Anthropologists and Archeologists are not known for accepting new ideas and theories without a controversy breaking out. Then again, scientists across the many disciplines, have this affliction. But I think that some of these findings that appear to date back hundreds of millennia deserve some serious consideration and investigation.

When the giants like Richard Feynman or Roger Penrose [my doctorate just shrivels into nothingness (luckily there doesn't appear to be nothingness - so I am safe) by comparison], say the universe is made of tiny vibrating strings - it is assumed to be even valid, yet it can not (thus far) be validated through the scientific method. And when men and women of such stature speak of eleven dimensions and write these ridiculously complex formulas in Quantum Mechanics on the board (a language 98% of the people simply find beyond science fiction) we all just look in amazement and shake our heads. I think some of these findings being uncovered in White Sands deserve much more attention than is given a Particle Accelerator product.

At least these Anthropologists and Archeologists are collecting hard evidence we can see with our eyes and feel with our hands!

Just My Two-Cents Worth,
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Most Respectfully,
R
 

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