how would you go about transferring human awareness from the human body into an alternative form?

[RainbowSingularity]

correlating with

subjective opinion with no evidence

I would bring

but I don't want

the brain is the essence of the debate
however you seem to be intending to replace the brain

the obvious route is brain transplant
potentially lifting out the brain and primary nerve system and putting it into a liquid container that is inside an android

cell death/decay is the critical stumbling block of all longevity issues
including diseases and genetic loss through RNA mutation/loss etc.

current technology trends suggest concepts of artificial intelligence to be a quantifiable electrical entity.
shifting this like charging a battery or moving a computer file may be an over simplification equal to humans gluing bird feathers on their skin and trying to fly.

 

[billvon]

well, yea it matters to me, because I don't want to create a facsimile of myself, I want to download my awareness into an alternative form.
I don't want there to be a person who remembers being me but is not, I want me, as in my awareness of things to occupy this new form.

Only way around that is to kill the "old you" the instant the new you comes on line.

 

[just me]

Only way around that is to kill the "old you" the instant the new you comes on line.

my facsimile would survive, I would not because my awareness would not reside in the facsimile.

 

[just me]

subjective opinion with no evidence

there is plenty of evidence, but it isn't mine, it is Dr Stuart hameroffs.

 

[billvon]

my facsimile would survive, I would not because my awareness would not reside in the facsimile.

You are a facsimile. All your cells are replaced every 10 years or so, so you are a copy of the original. But you don't notice the change. This is no different, other than speed.

 

[C C]

. . . the brain is the essence of the debate
however you seem to be intending to replace the brain

[...] current technology trends suggest concepts of artificial intelligence to be a quantifiable electrical entity.
shifting this like charging a battery or moving a computer file may be an over simplification equal to humans gluing bird feathers on their skin and trying to fly.

If "just me" wants to replace the brain/body for a technological substrate, then definitely problems in terms of remaining the same individual as before, after that -- even if "just me" did successfully accomplish the identity relocation. All the biochemical influences and regulators of the body (including the effects of food nutrients and other substances upon the brain) wouldn't be replicated. So the "alternative form" the person would supposedly have their data structure transferred to would not think/behave and decide like the original person because the deterministic properties of the different substrates would be dissimilar (one biological, the other artificial). It'd be vaguely akin to having a parallel version of one's self in another universe, but arguably far more divergent in actions, judgments, new habits, etc since a multiverse twin would at least share an analogous body/brain's in-common receptivity and reactions to causal factors in and from the environment.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

one's self in another universe, but arguably far more divergent in actions, judgments, new habits, etc since a multiverse twin would at least share an analogous body/brain's in-common receptivity and reactions to causal factors in and from the environment.

gravitational effects on mood & decisions ...
sounds like a neat idea for a book on something completely unrelated lol

note off the record
i made some interesting new observations about humans yesterday
white4u has made some interesting comments a year or so back around mirror neurons
empathy etc...

Both

my observations were around this and self actualization & group behavior

it is an ongoing study i am doing(in my mind)
my leaning is for pain management and medical early intervention for better outcomes to complex health issues.
it also touches on psychoanalysis in some rather deep manners as one might expect.

humans are soo weird ! lol

 

[TheFrogger]

Impossible.

 

[just me]

If "just me" wants to replace the brain/body for a technological substrate, then definitely problems in terms of remaining the same individual as before, after that -- even if "just me" did successfully accomplish the identity relocation. All the biochemical influences and regulators of the body (including the effects of food nutrients and other substances upon the brain) wouldn't be replicated. So the "alternative form" the person would supposedly have their data structure transferred to would not think/behave and decide like the original person because the deterministic properties of the different substrates would be dissimilar (one biological, the other artificial). It'd be vaguely akin to having a parallel version of one's self in another universe, but arguably far more divergent in actions, judgments, new habits, etc since a multiverse twin would at least share an analogous body/brain's in-common receptivity and reactions to causal factors in and from the environment.

that's fine by me, I could certainly do without the chemical induced aspects of my thought processes, they are very inconvenient.
and my name is holly, so you can just call me that from now on.

 

[just me]

and I never claimed that blind nano tech body replication is the entire consciousness downloading task completed, but it would eliminate an enormous chunk of the task, that chunk being to map the body and brain structure. (especially the brain structure)

we would not need to do that if the body and brain were replicated blindly by nano robots.

 

[DaveC426913]

we would not need to do that if the body and brain were replicated blindly by nano robots.

When you say 'replicated', do you mean the robots make a duplicate of the original, or do you mean the robots stand in place of the components of the original and act like the components would?

 

[just me]

When you say 'replicated', do you mean the robots make a duplicate of the original, or do you mean the robots stand in place of the components of the original and act like the components would?

act like the components.
the structure of the body would be replicated but not the functions performed within that structure.
and any required functions would have to be deliberately implemented using the replicated form.

required functions being, as far as I can tell,

memory, movement, and standard thought processes.

but I think that standard thought processes rely heavily on the shape of the brain itself, and as far as I can tell, micro tubules encode memory because when they deteriorate in Alzheimer's disease people lose their memories.

micro tubules are too delicate to be replaced by nano robots accurately so I will probably just leave them as is and make the nano robots maintain them.

 

[DaveC426913]

required functions being, as far as I can tell,

memory, movement, and standard thought processes.

And you think that these are just simple tasks that a robot could just ... dumbly copy.

It is hard to describe how far removed your idea of body and brain physiology is from reality.

 

[Bells]

It is hard to describe how far removed your idea of body and brain physiology is from reality.

Batshit crazy comes to mind..

And all so familiar....

Anywho, thread moved to pseudoscience.

 

[just me]

If your nanobots are not performing the functions of cells, what did they replicate?
You can't have it both ways.

well, they would replicate the basic structure of the body and brain, and thus eliminate a massive part of the task of downloading consciousness.

its not the entire solution, but it is an enormous part of it given that, based on brain imaging, different patterns of neural activity correlate with and therefore probably precipitate almost all of our conscious perceptions.

and guess what those patterns that our perceptions rely on rely on,
brain structure.
brain structure that we can not map very effectively in this day and age and would not need to if we were to replace the brain blindly with nano robots.

that's what the nano robots would replicate, the brain structures which our thought processes heavily rely on.

they would also replicate the basic structure of the human body for the sake of realism.

 

[just me]

And you think that these are just simple tasks that a robot could just ... dumbly copy.

It is hard to describe how far removed your idea of body and brain physiology is from reality.

no. these are the tricky issues which would have to be scrutinized and deliberately implemented using the replicated body structure.

 

[just me]

So what do you want to talk about?

Your 'nanobot' idea seems to presuppose that we know the relevant (to consciousness and personality) function of every neuron in the human nervous system. (It isn't just neurons. There's an endocrine aspect to mood and personality as well, the action of hormones and so on. We would need to capture that too.) Not only that, we would need to know how all of these neurons interact with one another in the neural network. (There are many billions of neurons, each with multiple synapses.) The complexity of just the description and mapping task appears overwhelming. Then we would have to develop a way to replace every one of those neurons with a functionally equivalent 'nanobot'. (It might be easier to model the functional network in a supercomputer.)

While one might think about it hypothetically, it does't sound even remotely possible in real life. Certainly not in this day and age. Maybe for some future neurobiology and technology. In 2019, it's just science-fiction.

never mind the endocrine aspect and the hormones and all of that, I am fine without mood, it has only brought me trouble.

the way that neurons interact with one another is based largely on the basic structure of the brain, the way these neurons are arranged in relation to one another, and on micro tubules inside them which probably encode memory because when they deteriorate it results in severe memory loss due to an injection of colchine into the brain.
colchine being a drug which inhibits microtubule polymerisation by binding to tubulin, and thus messes up microtubules.
so, when this microtubules are messed up, memory loss ensues, but that's probably just a coincidence, even though this has been tested using many other microtubule disrupting drugs as well.

so, recollections correlate with certain patterns of neural activity, indicating that these patterns of neural activity cause the recollections, and the deterioration of micro tubules results in memory loss, indicating that micro tubules encode memory.

and that the encryption of a certain memory on these micro tubules determines the pattern of neural activity relevant to the encoded memory.

I do not believe synapses themselves to be incredibly relevant, because I believe that the way they fire is determined mainly by things other than themselves, things that can be replicated by nano robots.

 

[just me]

You are a facsimile. All your cells are replaced every 10 years or so, so you are a copy of the original. But you don't notice the change. This is no different, other than speed.

I am not my cells, so, the fact that they're replaced does not make me a facsimile.
if awareness is a brain function and identical brains produce identical awareness's, that is, the awareness of the same individual, then your method would work nicely, but I do not believe that.

 

[DaveC426913]

no. these are the tricky issues which would have to be scrutinized and deliberately implemented using the replicated body structure.

It seems like you think of these nano robots as tantamount to Maxwell's daemons - that just magically do what you want them to do - and damn the physics and complexities.

 

[just me]

It seems like you think of these nano robots as tantamount to Maxwell's daemons - that just magically do what you want them to do - and damn the physics and complexities.

yes, damn them, they are rather inconvenient, but that doesn't mean I wont deal with them.