God knows the outcome of all the possible choices you may make but it's still up to you to make a choice. If you choose to serve God with your free will your destiny is His bosom but if you are self-determined then you are choosing separation from Him.
If science discover the existence of God, it could violate the free-will?
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Unless you don't believe he exists, in which case it's a false dichotomy. Then you're being cast aside through no fault of your own. Belief isn't something you can just choose, after all.
God reveals Christ through grace so that you can either choose to believe or not.
Through "grace?" What does that even mean?
And, I reiterate, belief is not a choice.
If you've heard about Jesus (the true gospel) you can choose wether to acknowledge, mold with and submit yourself (believe) to that revelation (grace) or you can disregard it.
I love how you totally ignore the question of what "shown through grace" means. Must have been another one of those nonsensical phrases you've heard a million times, repeat a million times, yet haven't the first clue as to what it actually means. You guys are so predictable.
As to this nonsense about submitting to the gospel, you realize there are competing ideas out there, right? Like, I dunno, archaeology and recorded history, that really spit in the face of this supposed "truth?" There's no way to believe in the gospel once you've studied it objectively. I bet you don't even know how the bible was collected, the entirely political manner in which canon was established. You know none of it, you only know what your pastor reads to you at mass.
But this is typical of most zealots. Ignorance is the foundation of religiosity. You claim to know the truth, but really you know nothing.
The key definition of grace is communication, revelation, illumination, enlightenment and awakening. By grace we are able to understand the redemptive purpose of Christ and are strengthened to do that which God requires to demonstrate faith.
I admit I do not know how the bible was collected but I do believe all scripture is inspired by God. But the bible is not the word of God, Jesus is the word of God. There's also other scripture outside the canon that supports the truth of Christ.
Gibberish. Grace means none of those things.
Then you admit you know nothing. What then is the basis for your belief?
Citing scripture outside the canon means nothing to me, or to anyone else. The process by which these books were chosen was political, not intellectual or even alleged to be divine. Do you know what happens when you join the priesthood? You are told the true story of the bible. And when that happens, many people quit, because their faith is shattered by the fact that the book is such a political item, and not at all what they thought it was.
And citing more scripture to support scripture doesn't even make sense. That's like asking an inventor to issue the patent for his own invention. What you need are independent sources, and there are none to verify the various stories within the biblical texts. Not to mention all the contradictions it includes.
Yes it does. See, I have presented to you information about Jesus and you have chosen not to believe. So belief is a choice
The basis of my belief is the foundation knowledge taught by living covenant apostles, not the bible.
I used to have my reservations on scripture but I came to see that within the context of truth (that is delivered by the apostles office) it makes sense.
Yes it does. See, I have presented to you information about Jesus and you have chosen not to believe. So belief is a choice
No, you've given me a false definition of the word "grace" and said it was up to me to believe it. It's not a choice: grace literally does not mean those things.
grace [greys] noun, verb, graced, grac·ing.
noun
1.
elegance or beauty of form, manner, motion, or action: We watched her skate with effortless grace across the ice. Synonyms: attractiveness, charm, gracefulness, comeliness, ease, lissomeness, fluidity. Antonyms: stiffness, ugliness, awkwardness, clumsiness; klutziness.
2.
a pleasing or attractive quality or endowment: He lacked the manly graces.
3.
favor or goodwill. Synonyms: kindness, kindliness, love, benignity; condescension.
4.
a manifestation of favor, especially by a superior: It was only through the dean's grace that I wasn't expelled from school. Synonyms: forgiveness, charity, mercifulness. Antonyms: animosity, enmity, disfavor.
5.
mercy; clemency; pardon: He was saved by an act of grace from the governor. Synonyms: lenity, leniency, reprieve. Antonyms: harshness.
So it isn't a choice of me believing you or not, it's a matter of me knowing that you're wrong.
Meaning you've based your belief on what your pastors and reverends tell you, correct?
Another nonsensical statement. Let's try again, but this time write your answer as though you were explaining it to someone who isn't a brain-dead sheep. You had your reservations about scripture; what changed?
My definition of grace is based on God's experience of it and from various passages in the bible defining grace.
Apostles, teachers, prophets, pastors and evangelists.
What changed was that I saw it within the context of truth (facts which are consistent to God's character, purpose and plan).
By all means, provide for me one of those "various" passages in the bible that defines grace as something else.
So you happen to know apostles and prophets? Or are you referring to those found in the bible, which you said wasn't the source of your faith?
"Within the context of truth" is a nonsensical statement. Try again.
The irony of wynn saying this to anyone outside of her mirror is wonderful. I mean, truly great stuff.
A marriage made in heaven!
You realize you're just trolling now, don't you? You're not adding anything to the discussion, you're simply insulting people and hoping to get a reaction.
I am, albeit sarcastically, referring to a very philosophical and ethical problem that tends to manifest in these discussions:
When people are talking as if they were as good as God Himself, or otherwise knew "how things really are," and then expecting unquestionable submission from others.
Sooner or later, both parties are talking to walls, and neither seems to realize it.
If these wouldn't be (pseudo)philosophical discussions, one would be inclined to think these conversations are merely one big display of narcissism.
When people are talking as if they were as good as God Himself, or otherwise knew "how things really are," and then expecting unquestionable submission from others.
Sooner or later, both parties are talking to walls, and neither seems to realize it.
If these wouldn't be (pseudo)philosophical discussions, one would be inclined to think these conversations are merely one big display of narcissism.
And the problem with this criticism is that it presupposes that having knowledge requires the perspective of a god. We can look at evidence that points to one conclusion or another and, depending on the level of that evidence, speak with varying degrees of certainty. I don't have to be God to know where religion comes from. There is an historical record of its evolution. To then conclude that the faith based on these documents is invalid is just a logical statement, and again not one that requires any kind of special perspective.
Not to mention that fruityfigtree has never once claimed to have special insight, only that she trusts the words of the people who have told her about this stuff, so your jerky comment about how we're so "alike" doesn't work on either front.
But the bigger problem is that in a conversation you had no part in, you decided it was prudent to step in and take a giant shit on it, rather than leave it be while fruityfigtree and I learned a bit more about each other's beliefs. You really need to get a life.
"Mt.16:17 illustrates perfectly how the grace of God reveals Jesus Christ to the heart. Jesus had asked the question, "Who do men say that I, the Son of man, am?" And Peter said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God!" And Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona; for flesh and blood has not revealed it unto you, but my Father which is in heaven." Grace carries the conviction of faith for righteousness." (doctrine) - revelation
Jn.1:9, “That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.” - the illumination of grace upon the soul
Heb.10:32 “After you were illuminated you endured a great fight of affliction.” - also illumination
Eph.1:17, 18: “That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him. The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints.” - enlightenment (understanding)
Eph.5:14, “Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.” - awakening
These scriptures support the apostles definition of grace and are not a result of private interpretation but a measure of understanding granted to the chief apostle.
I happen to know these living apostles and prophets, teachers, pastors and evangelists.
Truth has become the standard of my discernment so I can understand scripture from God's perspective.
None of this has anything to do with grace. You're just pointing at things and calling them grace without giving me any explanation as to why they should be called that.
I think these "living apostles" of yours are hacks who just throw out holy buzzwords like "grace" and define them ten different ways so they can be as imprecise as possible while also making all the right sounds. In other words, it's a pulpit trick. Haven't you asked yourself why none of this makes any sense when called "grace?" Don't you wonder why they don't just call it what it is?
They do no such thing. The scriptures you list here make no mention of grace, only things your preachers call grace. Big difference.
This is interesting. I've heard of prophets, pastors and evangelists, but a living apostle? What is that, exactly?
Again, word salad. You're not making any sense whatsoever.