Is Atheism Unscientific?

[Enmos]

Failing, how? Our ethical system keeps improving and we grow gradually more secular each year. There is no way to see this experiment as heading in any direction but an unmitigated success.

Ok, maybe you're right. I was under the impression that the US was kind of relapsing.
Some 85% (correct me if I'm wrong) of the population is still religious, a relatively high number of which take their religion to absurd heights.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Ok, maybe you're right. I was under the impression that the US was kind of relapsing.

No, you're right; it is. The Religious Redneck Retard Revival (the "born again" movement) started in the late 1970s and reversed the progress we had been making since the 1920s. It became fashionable for the aging hippies to express remorse for all their sex and drugs and rock'n'roll, even though for the most part it hadn't done them any harm. They were the healthiest, most educated, most cosmopolitan and most gainfully employed generation in history, and they'd ended a war and come close to ending racism. But as the final expression of the Generation Gap, they joined congregations that were far more evangelical and fundamentalist than the Presbyterian, Methodist, Lutheran and Catholic churches their parents had dragged them off to on major holidays--sects that actually argued against evolution.

Some 85% (correct me if I'm wrong) of the population is still religious, a relatively high number of which take their religion to absurd heights.

Yes. I don't think the RRRR has really started to fade away yet. It's lost steam among native-born Americans, but it's picking up a lot of immigrants.

American culture and politics tends to move in huge pendulum swings, going to an unbelievably ridiculous extreme in one direction, then ponderously swinging back to an equally ridiculous but opposite extreme. In 1970 in many cities you could walk down the street smoking a joint. Today they'll arrest you for smoking a cigarette in a frelling tavern! It will be interesting for you younger members to see America's religious profile thirty years from now.

 

[tohemp]

Religion's Fate

I think religion, that is the religion of the One God, is destined for the trash heap of history for the same reason that the religions of Many Gods were. That view fell into disfavor as we transitioned from a tribal existence, in which survival depended on harmony with many natural forces, to societies that revolved around a central authority.

The mythology takes a while to catch up to the new reality. Rome, a highly centralized society, clung to the Many Gods model for centuries before the One God mythology that reflected it's true structure took hold.

I think we are currently in one of those transition periods. The gulf between the religious ideal that "It's all in God's hands" and the post American/Industrial revolutionary ideal that our destiny is in our own hands will eventually push the old mythology aside in favor of one that supports the new social model.

The process has already started. In Sweden, for example, 80% of the population describes themselves as non-believers.

Why are we lagging in America? I think it has to do with the tendency for the "Big Dog" to defend the status-quo. Why rock the boat when "praise the lord and pass the ammunition" has served us so well.

What will the new mythology look like? Hard to say. My hunch is that God will stick around as a kind of New Age force that binds us all together in a sort of Yoda thing. My personal choice of mythologies, what I call the "There ain't nobody here but us chickens" school of thought, is probably a long way off.

 

[Enmos]

No, you're right; it is. The Religious Redneck Retard Revival (the "born again" movement) started in the late 1970s and reversed the progress we had been making since the 1920s. It became fashionable for the aging hippies to express remorse for all their sex and drugs and rock'n'roll, even though for the most part it hadn't done them any harm. They were the healthiest, most educated, most cosmopolitan and most gainfully employed generation in history, and they'd ended a war and come close to ending racism. But as the final expression of the Generation Gap, they joined congregations that were far more evangelical and fundamentalist than the Presbyterian, Methodist, Lutheran and Catholic churches their parents had dragged them off to on major holidays--sects that actually argued against evolution.

Thanks Fraggle, that's what I thought.

Yes. I don't think the RRRR has really started to fade away yet. It's lost steam among native-born Americans, but it's picking up a lot of immigrants.

American culture and politics tends to move in huge pendulum swings, going to an unbelievably ridiculous extreme in one direction, then ponderously swinging back to an equally ridiculous but opposite extreme. In 1970 in many cities you could walk down the street smoking a joint. Today they'll arrest you for smoking a cigarette in a frelling tavern! It will be interesting for you younger members to see America's religious profile thirty years from now.

Yep, that law made it through here as well. Although, we don't get arrested. The bar owner just gets a rather large fine if he allowed it, otherwise you'll have to pay up yourself.
Companies will take the money they had to pay out of your paycheck (if you work there of course ).

 

[swivel]

Ok, maybe you're right. I was under the impression that the US was kind of relapsing.
Some 85% (correct me if I'm wrong) of the population is still religious, a relatively high number of which take their religion to absurd heights.

Only 56% of Americans say that religion plays a major role in their lives. Fraggle's nonsense about hippies converting into evangelicals is plain rubbish.

The only reason religion has not died out faster is because the last great religious generation isn't dying out very quick. The baby-boomers are the last of their breed, and they are leaving fewer descendants to carry on the cause.

Most people in American only pay lip-service to religion. They rarely go to church. It is almost as if the social pressure is too great for them to be open about their lack of devotion.

Please read the following article:

http://www.humaniststudies.org/enews/?id=281&article=0

America is today in the position that Western Europe was in 30-40 years ago. A religious older population and a growing secular youth.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Fraggle's nonsense about hippies converting into evangelicals is plain rubbish. . . . The only reason religion has not died out faster is because the last great religious generation isn't dying out very quick. The baby-boomers are the last of their breed, and they are leaving fewer descendants to carry on the cause.

The hippies were Baby Boomers. That was their g-g-g-generation. They were born between 1946 and 1964, and became teenagers in the 1960s and 1970s when the hippie movement took place.

They turned 30 between 1976 and 1994, the height of the RRRR. Cheech and Chong had another name for them: "Druggies Against Drugs." DADs, for short.

 

[thinking]

A few weeks ago Bill Maher was on the Daily Show pitching his film Religulous. Jon Steward took him to be an atheist to which he responded (with some paraphrasing), "I'm not an atheist. I don't like atheism. It's the mirror image of the certitude of religion." To an extremely skeptical agnostic like myself this seemed quite reasonable. Is there enough empirical evidence for atheism? I don't for a minute equate the "certitude" of atheism with that of the currently accepted religions but can't help thinking that atheists are a little too smug given the current state of scientific knowledge. Am I missing something? Do we know enough about the past, current, future state of the universe (amongst other things?) to absolutely exclude the possibility of some form of deity?

to the last statement no

but at the same time does the deity actually matter in the end ?

meaning that as far as the survival of the Human Race I doubt we matter to any deity in the end

 

[charles brough]

A few weeks ago Bill Maher was on the Daily Show pitching his film Religulous. Jon Steward took him to be an atheist to which he responded (with some paraphrasing), "I'm not an atheist. I don't like atheism. It's the mirror image of the certitude of religion." To an extremely skeptical agnostic like myself this seemed quite reasonable. Is there enough empirical evidence for atheism? I don't for a minute equate the "certitude" of atheism with that of the currently accepted religions but can't help thinking that atheists are a little too smug given the current state of scientific knowledge. Am I missing something? Do we know enough about the past, current, future state of the universe (amongst other things?) to absolutely exclude the possibility of some form of deity?

To me, there is no such thing as certitude even though I am an atheist. All our science is theory, but because it is far more accurate theory, it is more advanced and enables us to see ourselves and the world about us more realistically. So, science is the main focus of a modern human being, and being scientific means, among other things, that we do not believe or give credit to things or concepts for which there is no evidence. Doing so obstructs the improving of science. We are under no obligation to disprove old theory such as the belief in "spirits." It is as impossible to "prove" "God" does not exist as it is to prove Santa Claus does not exist.

I am not agnostic about "God" anymore than about Santa Claus. Are you?

In the social evolution of mankind, the number of spirits he has worshipped during the last perhaps 100,000 years, the more he needed them to help explain life. As he built up his cultural/technological heritage, the number of spirits he needed to help explain things, declined and his understanding of natural cause and effect increased. The last stages before no "spirits" or atheism was monotheism and deism. Science of the future will depend upon atheism.

That's why my webpage is http://atheistic-science.com!

charles

 

[aaqucnaona]

To me, there is no such thing as certitude even though I am an atheist. All our science is theory, but because it is far more accurate theory, it is more advanced and enables us to see ourselves and the world about us more realistically. So, science is the main focus of a modern human being, and being scientific means, among other things, that we do not believe or give credit to things or concepts for which there is no evidence. Doing so obstructs the improving of science. We are under no obligation to disprove old theory such as the belief in "spirits." It is as impossible to "prove" "God" does not exist as it is to prove Santa Claus does not exist.

I am not agnostic about "God" anymore than about Santa Claus. Are you?

In the social evolution of mankind, the number of spirits he has worshipped during the last perhaps 100,000 years, the more he needed them to help explain life. As he built up his cultural/technological heritage, the number of spirits he needed to help explain things, declined and his understanding of natural cause and effect increased. The last stages before no "spirits" or atheism was monotheism and deism. Science of the future will depend upon atheism.

That's why my webpage is http://atheistic-science.com!

charles

Well said.

My thoughts -

How I became an Atheist - http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=111277

Why I chose Atheism - http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=111812

 

[spidergoat]

And don't forget my thread:
When/ how did you become an atheist?

 

[river]

A few weeks ago Bill Maher was on the Daily Show pitching his film Religulous. Jon Steward took him to be an atheist to which he responded (with some paraphrasing), "I'm not an atheist. I don't like atheism. It's the mirror image of the certitude of religion." To an extremely skeptical agnostic like myself this seemed quite reasonable. Is there enough empirical evidence for atheism? I don't for a minute equate the "certitude" of atheism with that of the currently accepted religions but can't help thinking that atheists are a little too smug given the current state of scientific knowledge. Am I missing something? Do we know enough about the past, current, future state of the universe (amongst other things?) to absolutely exclude the possibility of some form of deity?

Atheism is not about science in the first place

Atheism is about believing in your fundamental being , Humanity , first and foremost

whether there is a god or not is really irrelevent

 

[metadawn]

Yes, atheism (belief in no god of any sort, not just the ones listed by religion) is unscientific just like religion.

Neither uses the scientific method when it comes to their claims, thus are not falsifiable, thus are not subject to the scientific method.

Now the conundrum comes in how one of the strongest arguments for atheists is how religion is not scientific i.e. (You cannot prove god exists) and vice versa with religion (You cannot prove that god doesn't exist), so we end up with this vicious cycle of the dog chasing its tail.

However, in my opinion, atheism is still more scientific than religion because I believe there are many claims which are falsifiable within each religion which followers overlook/refuse to acknowledge whereas atheism has its one claim which more or less makes it a religion since it is based on faith (there is no god).

 

[river]

Yes, atheism is unscientific just like religion.

atheism , for me doesn't care wether god exists or not really

now though if you want to get scientific about god ( science , knowledge , knowing)

then delve into Ancient History B.C.E.

you'll find all kinds of evidence for a god

Neither uses the scientific method when it comes to their claims, thus are not falsifiable, thus are not subject to the scientific method.

wrong , wrong

Now the conundrum comes in how one of the strongest arguments for atheists is how religion is not scientific i.e. (You cannot prove god exists) and vice versa with religion (You cannot prove that god doesn't exist), so we end up with this vicious cycle of the dog chasing its tail.

an physical god or an omni god

 

[spidergoat]

Certainly in history, one can find all sorts of fanciful stories, but those niggers didn't know shit about how the world worked.

 

[Michael]

Atheism is lacking a superstitious belief in Gods and Goddesses and perhaps your occasional Alien Overlord. EVERYONE is atheist.

One thing that's interesting is Christians were persecuted for being Atheist and now they turn around and persecute other people for being Atheist.