My tolerance is waning rapidly.
You have been expressing that. Could you possibly imagine how I would feel if I allowed my tolerance level to be of paramount importance in any and all discussions that I participate in?
Here is the scientific method as I originally stated it.
That seems to be an excellent interpretation of "the Simplified Scientific Method".
I pointed this out to you:
Yes, you did. And I tried to point out to you that the berkeley.edu Links were describing the
"The real process of science" which of course,
must contain all of the ingredients of "the Simplified Scientific Method", and also the much more complete, extended and detailed
processes/methods that encompass the whole of "the real process of science".
Yes, I have accepted it as I explained in my response immediately ^^above^^.
I went as far as restating it thusly:
Again, yes you did. and that "restating" was a great "broadest possible overview" of
"the Simplified Scientific Method" - It would however,
not be such a great "broadest possible overview" of berkeley.edu's "the real process of science".
And so we come back to this point:
They present a broad overview as one flow chart, I can even demonstrate how their broad overview is compatable with my own:
Same flow-chart annotated to more or less illustrate how the model I presented ties in to this model:
Their more detailed version:
Simply illustrated the different ways the different parts can be achieved.
For example, ideas can be tested by gathering data and interpreting data, and that comes down to the comparison between the results predicted by your hypothesis and the actualy results or observations (resulting from your test), the data will, invariably either confirm the hypothesis, refute the hypothesis, or suggest a revision.
The reason that berkeley.edu presents
only one flowchart is because they are presenting the flowchart of "the real process of science", which berleley.edu clearly states.
Again, Trippy, it would seem to make perfect sense that the flowchart presented of "the real process of science" would have to incorporate all of the steps or methods of "the Simplified Scientific Method".
Is that not a sensible deduction/conclusion?
ALL of which I have specifically and explicitly said to you before eg:
Even though here:
Again, yes you have. And I read those Posts.
Yes, Trippy, berkeley.edu only made "reference" to (
Bold by me) :
http://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/0_0_0/howscienceworks_02
berkeley.edu/flowchart said:
In contrast to the linear steps of the simplified scientific method, this process is non-linear
When berkeley.edu makes references using the words "linear" or "simplified " (or variations of those words),
it seems to me, at least, that they are
probably referring to what they described as "the Simplified Scientific Method".
Am I able to give examples of the kind of simplified, linearized method that I believe Berkley may be referring to.
I am not really sure what to make of your ^^above quoted^^ !
If it was meant as a question, and you merely put a (.) at the end, instead of a (?), then yes I would think that you could give many examples.
And, if it was meant as a statement (in which case you may have merely reversed the first two words), then I would agree that you should be able to give examples.
So, inspite of the fact that:
1. I can succinctly state in my own words what I believe the scientific method to be.
2. I can illustrate how my broad definition fits in with Berkley's broad definition.
3. You have explicitly agreed that what I have had to say is the same as what the Berkley link says.
4. The details I have stated are the same details that the Berkley link covers (I'm not claiming to have covered all the details here).
5. The Berkley link is in complete agreement with me on those details.
6. The berkley link is in agreement with me on the iterative nature of the process.
7. The Berkley link is in agreement with me on the non-linearity of the process.
8. I am in agreement with the Berkley link (and have explicitly said so) on the collective nature of the process.
9. I can give examples of simplified, linearized, cook-book interpretations of the scientific method, thus demonstrating that they exist and that my interpretation is not among them.
1.) - I concur.
2.) - I concur.
3.) - I do not completely concur, I have stated that what you have said is
similar to what berkeley.edu states, thought they get much more in depth. In some Posts you have made some statements that are,
more or less, the same as some of the statements made by berkeley.edu, that much is true.
4.) - I partially concur - I would use the word "similar" instead of "same" in
some of the cases.
5.) - ??? - It would seem to me that it is more that you are in complete agreement with berkeley.edu in those details.
6.) - ??? - Again, you seem to be in agreement with berkeley.edu on the iterative nature of the process.
7.) - ??? - Again, you seem to be in agreement with berkeley.edu on the non-linearity of "the real process of science". The berkeley.edu Site seems to only refer to "the simplified Scientific Method" as being "linear".
8.) - As well you, and any other open and honest person
who has taken the time to read the links, probably should be.
9.) - I am not sure how to respond to that, other than to say that I was and am currently not aware that the berkeley.edu site, nor myself claimed that any thing along those lines did
not exist.
You still seem to think that...
Actually, you know what, just at the moment, I'm not quite sure what you think at the moment.
Actually, my position has not changed one bit from what I Posted in the OP :
My intent in Posting this information is to hopefully assuage the adherence of some to the idea that all science must follow a rigid, dogmatic or "written in stone" single "Scientific Method".
There are, indeed, many different "methods" utilized by scientists, and they all demand rigorous testing and validation to be given any credence within the greater scientific community.
It is my firm belief that the plural form of the word "method" should be used when speaking of or referring to "The Scientific Methods"
I only ask that the linked pages be read and considered fully.
On the one hand, you seem to agree that the Berkley site matches up with what I have to say (and consequently what others have to say) about the nature of the single scientific method.
Actually,
it seems, to me at least, that after 7 Pages,
what you and other Posters are saying finally "matches up" partially with what the berkeley.edu Site/Pages are saying about "The real process of science".
Although,
I am not sure that everyone has figured out that berkeley.edu considers and states that they (and others) make a distinction between "the Simplified Scientific Method", as taught in grade school for instance, and the much more involved and complex processes/methods that they explain as "the real process of science", which are utilized throughout the different Sciences and taught in the higher levels of academia.
On the other hand, you still seem be implying that you believe that there is more than one scientific method,
I have not been implying anything.
I have
tried to make it abundantly clear that
I firmly believe that there is a marked difference between "the Simplified Scientific Method" and "the real process of science".
I have also tried to make it clear that
I firmly believe that there are a myriad of different processes/methods that are utilized on a regular basis in the many different disciplines of the Sciences.
even though you have you to describe or provide evidence for anything that's different to what Paddoboy and myself have said...
I am not quite sure what you are trying to say in that statement!
The only reply that I can give is the following :
I, dmoe, started this Thread and Posted the OP.
In the OP I supplied the Links to what I believed were pertinent to the Thread, and clearly stated both my position on, and intent in Posting the OP.
That position and intent has not changed at all.
I also clearly stated in the OP :
again, the ^^above quoted^^ is from :
http://undsci.berkeley.edu/teaching/misconceptions.php] - and should be fully read before jumping to any conclusions about the nature or intent of this Thread.
I only ask that the linked pages be read and considered fully.
From the first few Posts by paddoboy, in which,
it seemed to me, that he was
trying to refute the OP, while at the same time appearing to copy/paste articles that were
more or less in agreement to the OP. At that point, I was fairly certain that he had
misjudged the intent of the OP, or had not fully read and considered the Links in the OP, so I asked paddoboy :
In what way is the ^^above quoted^^ relevant to the OP?
I asked that question to see if paddoboy would state
whether or not he was in agreement with the OP.
It does
seem to appear that not everyone read and considered the Links, Prior to Posting their responses - I should not be held responsible for any misunderstandings or misconceptions that were the result of their actions or non-action in that respect.
As this Thread has progressed, it would
seem that paddoboy and some other Posters
have actually read at least some of the content available at the Links in the OP, and have,
more or less, come into agreement with most of the berkeley.edu content - even though some cannot come to admit any agreement with my
position or
my clearly stated intent in the Posting of the OP.
Again, Trippy, I have tried my darnedest to address all of the questions and issues in your Post, to the best of my abilities.
I always try to be open, honest and forthright in my Posts and responses. I have
no overt or covert "anti-science" or "anti-mainstream science" agenda of any kind.