Is 'Western Islam' a Separate Religion?

[Lawdog]

Apparently you know Koran more than muslims do.

I know the Koran enough, but its just too boring to read. The Koran instructs Muslims to illiminate or subjugate atheists and pagans, and subjugate christians. I have attended classes taught by Muslim scholars. This is old stuff, any seriouis student would not deny it. Furthermore, unlike the holy scriptures of the bible, the Koran is to be taken liiterally, according to the majority of Muslims. Non-fundamentalist Islam is not real Islam.

 

[S.A.M.]

I know the Koran enough, but its just too boring to read. The Koran instructs Muslims to illiminate or subjugate atheists and pagans, and subjugate christians. I have attended classes taught by Muslim scholars. This is old stuff, any seriouis student would not deny it. Furthermore, unlike the holy scriptures of the bible, the Koran is to be taken liiterally, according to the majority of Muslims. Non-fundamentalist Islam is not real Islam.

Really?

Please translate this verse for me, tell me where it appears and when it is used:

"Bismillahi Rahmani Raheem"

 

[LiveInFaith]

well just like the xians and their bible, you read the quran with your eyes blinkered.

So you do know how I read it, blinkered eyes, care to explain? Please specify how I read the first verse revealed, if you may wish to.

 

[Lawdog]

Really?

Please translate this verse for me, tell me where it appears and when it is used:

"Bismillahi Rahmani Raheem"

oh right. why dont you learn some koine greek in your spare time so you can read what God's faith looks like, not the synthetic faith of Islam created by the mortal man muhammud. REPENT!

 

[S.A.M.]

oh right. why dont you learn some koine greek in your spare time so you can read what God's faith looks like, not the synthetic faith of Islam created by the mortal man muhammud. REPENT!

Well you're the one who claims to know what he's talking about.

Was it a false claim?

Try not to be false prophet.

 

[Lawdog]

Islam is a false religion, its actually a heresy. The "prophet" Muhammud took what he learned from Judaism and Christianity and his own arabic paganism and created his own version of piety, the five pillars of Islam. It is not a revealed religion, it is man-made. Muhammud did not claim to be divine. Christ claimed and demonstrated his divinity and our faith comes from him. Even the Jews have a revealed faith, God revealing to them his laws on Mt Sinai.

 

[mustafhakofi]

So you do know how I read it, blinkered eyes, care to explain? Please specify how I read the first verse revealed, if you may wish to.

the only way to show you how blinkered you are is to ask you to quote something from the quran, which you believe is the truth, where allah/mohammed tells you, you should do something nasty to the un/disbeliever/infidel, those not of your faith, can you do that.

 

[LiveInFaith]

the only way to show you how blinkered you are is to ask you to quote something from the quran, which you believe is the truth, where allah/mohammed tells you, you should do something nasty to the un/disbeliever/infidel, those not of your faith, can you do that.

Easy. I can do that. Someone had quoted in this thread, I say yes they are from quran.
I read those verses, and comprehend the understanding of those verses by text and their contexts. Then I have my understanding. If it's different with your understanding, should I supposed to be blinkered?

If I only open my eyes to those war related verses, while reading it literally and close my eyes to the rest of more than 6000 verses, then it is blinkered.

 

[mustafhakofi]

Easy. I can do that. Someone had quoted in this thread, I say yes they are from quran.
I read those verses, and comprehend the understanding of those verses by text and their contexts. Then I have my understanding. If it's different with your understanding, should I supposed to be blinkered?

so you see all the contradictions, all the absurdities, all the intolerance, all the injustice, and all the cruelty.
quote some, I asked you to quote something, you've quoted nothing yet.

If I only open my eyes to those war related verses, while reading it literally and close my eyes to the rest of more than 6000 verses, then it is blinkered.

well that just about says it all,(blinkered), nobody is asking you to shut your eyes to the rest, just open them, as you say to those killing related verses.

 

[LiveInFaith]

so you see all the contradictions, all the absurdities, all the intolerance, all the injustice, and all the cruelty.

just if I see them with half eyes closed; which I don't.

quote some, I asked you to quote something, you've quoted nothing yet.

not enough to accord to the same source? what's the point to quote things when it is already accorded. Is this what you want me to literally put : kill infidels? Yes, you get that literally put.

well that just about says it all,(blinkered), nobody is asking you to shut your eyes to the rest, just open them, as you say to those killing related verses.

I did, and I get its comprehension.

 

[the preacher]

LiveInFaith :
I would'nt bother answering musta,your playing right into her hands, with every statement you make.

 

[LiveInFaith]

The preacher, thanks. You're right. I take your advice then.

 

[Adstar]

You only managed to find 4 quotes? There are pages and pages of similar quotes RE infidels.

Interesting though that you paste these quotes as if to say this religion is evil, yet when someone does this to your Bible, you defend them to the death, just like Muslim apologists will do with the Quran.

I have many more. But why quote 100 when 4 will do the job? You should not be amazed that i defend the Will of God expressed through the Bible. Everyone can embrace the message they agree with. muslims agree with the quran. i think it is an abomination to The God of Abraham. Let each person embrace the message that they agree with and Let The God of Abraham justify whom He will and condemn Whom He will. In the end we will all be judged for what we approve.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

I'm not so surprised about youre opinion about islam had those all you know about Qur'an.



I did.



How could I answer this? I simply can't.

You read it and agreed with it? May you renounce islam before you die and may you be saved by the Messiah Jesus from the eternal lake of fire.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Jenyar]

Adstar, what makes you think renouncing Islam is going to bring someone any closer to being saved than accepting Christianity? A hateful Christian, hateful Muslim or hateful atheist all have the same god: themselves, and the same religion: self-righteousness. Like you said, "Let each person embrace the message that they agree with and Let The God of Abraham justify whom He will and condemn Whom He will. In the end we will all be judged for what we approve." If God saves someone, it won't be because of the label on their clothes, but the label on their hearts.

 

[Jenyar]

The reasons people have for rationalizing vengeance or hatred against those who don't share their views rarely come from the places detractors suspect they do. It's that way in Christianity, and I don't see why it won't be the same in any other system of belief, religious or not. It's often a case of people associating themselves with some historical nation or person, Biblical or otherwise, rather than making any kind of sense of the history. That way they may attempt to relive some particular past like it applied today, and expect the same result - the same victory. For that reason I'm convinced these conflicts reflect a matter of identity (or mistaken identity).

So what I would like to know is how the extremists justify their actions. Whose identity are they clothing themselves with? Literally: Who do they think they are? Is someone threatening their hopes, dreams or eternal fate? Or even God's kingdom, somehow? The answers would also shed some light on the results they expect, religiously and politically.

I think that would make a more worthwhile discussion.

 

[perplexity]

For that reason I'm convinced these conflicts reflect a matter of identity (or mistaken identity).

That is how I think of religion, a badge worn to identify,
reluctant to call myself this that for fear of being mistaken for one of them, when I'd rather be what I am.

--- Ron.

 

[Adstar]

Adstar, what makes you think renouncing Islam is going to bring someone any closer to being saved than accepting Christianity? A hateful Christian, hateful Muslim or hateful atheist all have the same god: themselves, and the same religion: self-righteousness. Like you said, "Let each person embrace the message that they agree with and Let The God of Abraham justify whom He will and condemn Whom He will. In the end we will all be judged for what we approve." If God saves someone, it won't be because of the label on their clothes, but the label on their hearts.

People who are accepting of everything stand for nothing and are like salt that has lost it's flavour. It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.

Jesus said:

John 14
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Followers of the Messiah Jesus believe what Jesus said jenyar. Who do you believe? The catholic church? That ecumenical harlot who gets into bed with anyone and everyone? You want to make a whore of yourself with islam?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Jenyar]

That is how I think of religion, a badge worn to identify,
reluctant to call myself this that for fear of being mistaken for one of them, when I'd rather be what I am.

I hear you, but I also agree with Adstar. Dissociation doesn't preclude identity. Be who you are, but don't be just anyone...

 

[perplexity]

I hear you, but I also agree with Adstar. Dissociation doesn't preclude identity. Be who you are, but don't be just anyone...

And wouldn't it be nice and easy if they'd take me simply for what I claim to be, wysiwyg?

It really is hard to keep track sometimes of the number of different versions of who they think I am and why and what for.

--- Ron.