I had in mind to accomplish something, perhaps even do a little charity work after I find a good job. I've been asked out by women, but they were a little crazy. For instance, this one hispanic mother whom I used to work with tried to match me up with her daughter. But her daughter did not speak any english. A strange date that would be. Then, there was this 26 year old cambodian women. She was married to a man who divorced her right after getting her pregnant due to money, I think. I couldn't accept her invitation.
Islam; What does it mean?
- Thread starter piddu
- Start date
Proud_Muslim said:
okinrus, please excuse him, he thinks us westerners are all Britney Spears and Brat Pitts.
Proud_Muslim said:
I can't claim what I wish, and so do you...Actually, I take it back, and I wish to be like you...You disgrace Islam and all muslims, so here, I command you to stop staying that you are a muslim.
Proud_Muslim said:
My ass, another addition by you and others to the divine orders. Call it Tafsir, Tafkir, Tajhid, bulshid, whatever you want, at the end of the day, it's addition.....And, please stop being the excutive divine being in charge of keeping the orders...No one hired you nor voted you for the position.
The muslims that I speak to say that unmarried men and women should not be alone together.
I thought all pictures and images of men and women were sinful. In that case, it's way past your time. You need to disconnect yourself from the Web.
It's not my opinion to judge others PM. But if Muslim women happens by chance to live in the amazon, how will they where all of the covering? If you are Muslim, you will believe that Allah decreeded it. But if you are not muslim, you will refer to the actual author or seer. In fact, when quoting from the bible, if a prophet such as Ezekiel writes an oracle of the Lord, I will just say, "Ezekiel said...". But you are not disproving my claim.
----------Flores said:What are you doing MW?
Okinrus, the right girl will majically appear at the right time, when you're 26-28 years old. Don't pick her, let her pick you...us woman have better criteria for male selection.
M*W: Flores, you are most certainly right about this! He's still young, but I believe there is someone out there for him. Maybe he's shy. What about meeting people at church? I wonder if they have a young people's group.
okinrus said:
You were talking about friendship not man and woman being left alone.
and where did you get that from ???
what do you mean by covering ? Muslim woman HAS a duty to wear the hijab, no one should force them to do so, the one who dont are SINNERS. PERIOD.
You see, you showed increadible ignorance of Islam, prophet Muhammad(pbuh ) did not write anything, the quran was revealed to him from God.
Flores said:
Not all westerners like britney but surely so many of you WORSHIP her ass.
I can't claim what I wish, and so do you...Actually, I take it back, and I wish to be like you...You disgrace Islam and all muslims, so here, I command you to stop staying that you are a muslim.
You were right to put the confused face, because you are really confused, I am not claiming to be TRUE MUSLIM, I salute you for saying you are MUSLIM and I said that to you, but you posting your pictures nearly naked and then claim you are TRUE MUSLIM is not nice flores and you know that.
The one who disgrace Islam is such actions of yours.
Please flores, no need to call names, the DIVINE ORDER OF HIJAB is VERY VERY CLEAR in the Quran: shall we read them together !
“And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear therof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons.......And O you Believers, turn you all together towards Allah, that you may attain Bliss.” (Quran 24:31).
“O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.” (Quran 33:59)
“O you Children of Adam! We have bestowed on you raiment to cover your shame as well as to be an adornment to you. But the raiment of righteousness, that is the best. Such are among the Signs of Allah, that they may receive admonition.” (Quran 7:26)
You see Flores, you see, it is CLEAR divine order...I suggest you speak with one of those American sisters who are wearing hijab, dont you know any ?
I am not keeping any orders, I am explaining what Islam is, you are defaming Islam by your actions, as I said Flores, be very careful of what you say, you might think what you say is just words but you will be asked for every word:
Allah ( swt ) says in Surah Al-Nur :
"On the Day their tongues, their hands, and their feet will bear witness against them as to their actions." (24:24)
Also our beloved Prophet (pbuh) said, when he was asked which Muslim is better?
"One from whose tongue and hand the Muslims feel save."
Am I save from your tongue ?? certainly not !!
It's from accounts in the hadith.
http://muttaqun.com/pictures.html
Well, most of the restrictions on dress I think are in the Hadith. So Flores does not believe in the Hadith and these would not apply to her. The Quranic verses are <a href="http://www.soundvision.com/Info/news/hijab/hjb.quran.asp">here</a>
Quran 7:26 cannot apply because it is speaking of all of the children of Adam. Quran 24:31 does not seem to apply because it says, "ordinary appear thereof". Basically, just a recommendation to stay dressed and not to display themselves to other men.
“O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). <b>That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed.</b> Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.” (Quran 33:59)
This passage does not suggest that it is sinful not to wear a full veil, only that it was better. In fact, the meaning implied here might be very specific Muhammed's time. Why might it be necessary for them to be recognized? Was there a mandate to harass non-muslims, those whom don't where the veil?
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okinrus said:
An example of PMS most beloved Hadith, Sunnah:
I stuffed for the Prophet a pillow decorated with pictures (of animals) which looked like a Namruqa (i.e. a small cushion). He came and stood among the people with excitement apparent on his face. I said, "O Allah's Apostle! What is wrong?" He said, "What is this pillow?" I said, "I have prepared this pillow for you, so that you may recline on it." He said, "Don't you know that angels do not enter a house wherein there are pictures; and whoever makes a picture will be punished on the Day of Resurrection and will be asked to give life to (what he has created)?"
Excuse me, but this Hadith means that not only that we can't make pictures, we can't make anything period. I wonder what the Saudis use for traffic signs..perhaps they don't in fear that they shall worship the hand in the stop sign.
Proud_Muslim said:"One from whose tongue and hand the Muslims feel save."
Am I save from your tongue ?? certainly not !!
Okay, let's look at this slowly. Let's assume that you are one hell of a confused soul and that you are really a kafir who thinks that he is a muslim...(Eldaleen). Eldallen, means lost. Pilots who don't have a good sense can think that they are flying up while they are actually flying down. Let's just assume that you are not a hypocrite, or (Maghdoub Alayeh..god wraith is on) but you fall in the category of the "confused=daleen".
Is the muslim that you describe in your Hadith supposed to offer safety in tongue and hand to all humanity or to just other muslims? Because if you say to just muslims, then I tell you that you don't know if you are a muslim or not, only god will establish that in the day of judgement, and thus perhaps I the real muslim happen not to provide safety to you, because you are one of the Daleen.
Now, if you say that a true muslim is one that makes everyone feel safe in tongue and hand, then me and you are not muslim, because you say that you don't feel safe from my tongue and I can assure you that you annoy the hell out of me with yours. I do fear you, because I think you are royally crazy, and I can tell you that you have nothing to fear from me, because i know who I am...So based on your Hadith, you must not be a muslim
okinrus said:
These hadiths were very important in the beginning of Islam because people used to worship idols.
Now, some people still believe the angels wont enter your house if there are pictures of people with eyes hanged on the wall...so, do I believe in the above hadiths ? OF COURSE, NO DOUBT.
The HIJAB is from the QURAN not from the hadith, and if someone DOES NOT believe in the hadith then they are QURANIST and NOT Muslims, those who refuse the hadith are NOT muslims.
as regarding your NONESENSE refuting the quranic verses, I dont need to reply to such BS.
Flores said:
As I already said, these hadiths were revealed in the early days of Islam where people used to worship pictures and idols, but not now, otherwise how do you explain the SAUDI SATELLITE CHANNELS for example ??
Flores said:
Safety in tongue and hand is to ALL humanity my dear lady, Islam came as UNIVERSAL religion to all humankind.
Well SISTER,let us STOP this BS of trading insults between each others and as I suggested to you before, we have many things in common...ever wondered why I offered you this OLIVE BRANCH MANY TIMES ??? I dont want to hurt you in my tongue, I said horrible word to you, I should not have said it, but you were exceptionally rude to me, but let us forget and start again.....shall we ??
I like this self-rightous attitude from you, you said horrible things to me using your tongue, even you went so silly by posting private NORMAL PM here and so on.....look sister ( allow me to call you sister as gesture of good will from me ) let us forget this and start from the beginning...shall we ?
Well, I'm not aware of exactly what hadiths each sect accepts. It's not my interest to explain how modern countries interpret the hadith. I think my point was that a similar and no less correct interpretation applies to the veil. Your claim was that not wearing a veil was sinful for a women when the Qur'an only seems to imply that wearing a veil is best.
Ok, I could believe the dog one in a pinch because the feces left in the house and the similar command given to the Isrealites. But pictures with eyes? Is Muhammed joking? Since the angels won't enter the room, there will be no way that their prayers will be taken up to heaven.
I was told, PM, by other muslims that believe in the Hadith that they do not believe that it is infallible on par with the Qur'an. I think you will find varying beliefs on this and some hadiths may be considered invalid because they contradict the Quran or have little credibility.
I'm not refuting the Quran verses; I'm refuting your belief in a single valid interpretation of them that happens to be your own. You said that not wearing the Hijab was sinful. No where do I find that not wearing the Hijab was sinful. In fact, before Muhammed proclaimed the message, presumably the women were wearing typical dress. A similar argument, and just as invalid, could be attained by Paul's statement that women should not pray with their hair uncovered. If they should pray with their hair covered and they pray unceasingly, then they should always have their hair covered. That is what some orders of nuns do after all.
Proud_Muslim said:As I already said, these hadiths were revealed in the early days of Islam where people used to worship pictures and idols, but not now, otherwise how do you explain the SAUDI SATELLITE CHANNELS for example ??
I like your rationalization. So things that Prophet Muhammed said to people in the early days of Islam should not apply to us? I agree with you totally.
Proud_Muslim said:
You better throw away your TV, your newspapers, and any books or publication that may show a picture in it...also, throw away your camera all together and your cute kids baby pictures because they offend the angels....do all that.or of course you risk that the angels will not come to your house.
okinrus, please rest assured that not a single Quranic verse have commanded The head cover, up to the ankle cover, and up to the wrist cover, loose clothing, ect.....for women...
The only Hadith relating to this issue is a weak Hadith in which the prophet doesn't even speak...Supposidely he was silent to the question of women and dress and pointed to his neck, wrist, and ankle...Prophet Muhammed silence on the issue speaks volume about it.
Come on PMS, bring them on that board, so Proffessor Flores can demonstrate.
The only Hadith relating to this issue is a weak Hadith in which the prophet doesn't even speak...Supposidely he was silent to the question of women and dress and pointed to his neck, wrist, and ankle...Prophet Muhammed silence on the issue speaks volume about it.
Come on PMS, bring them on that board, so Proffessor Flores can demonstrate.
Flores said:
You are misleading people flores, Allah will ask you in the day of judgment about what you are saying now, NOT A SINGLE MUSLIM SCHOLAR say that the hijab is not a MUST, ALL muslims scholars agree on this matter, sunnis and shias, sufis and habashis...etc ALL AGREE ON THIS MATTER.
I brought up the verses in my answer to you, just 3 or 4 posts before this one in this same thread, i posted them in green, scroll up and see them.
Flores said:
The things he told people at that time which CONCERNs their environment at that time, but he said many other things that all valid for every time and place.