Jesus' Wife????

Cris,

While the New Testament contains four writings called "gospels" there is only one "gospel" running through all of Christian scriptures. It is the gospel of and about Jesus Christ. The written gospels are the forms of various authors presenting Jesus' life, works, teachings and resurrection. The gospel was delivered contemporaneously by the historical Jesus. Paul's letters were written after the Resurrection of Jesus Christ (after the gospel was delivered) but before the completion of the written gospels.

I hope this helps.
 
I consider the Catholic Apocrypha and the Protestant Pseudepigraphal Books to be some of the strongest evidence of the historical Jesus. These books contain incidents and events during the life of Jesus Christ which are not related in the books of the Bible. These books were rejected by the Church because they contain what the Church considered to be slightly heretical tendencies. Note: The Church did not doctor these books to "make them fit" as has been suggested by some about Biblical books. If the Church was going to screw with some books to perpetuate a conspiracy, why not screw with all of them?

We have the New Testament at our fingertips, which is prima facie evidence of the historical Jesus.

We also have the Archeology of the New Testament at our disposal... "The Archeology of the New Testament is the authoritative illustrated account of what is presently known about the chief sites and monuments connected with the life of Jesus and the history of the early church. To follow the order of the New Testament, it first investigates sites connected with John the Baptist and then proceeds to Bethlehem and Nazareth, Samaria and Galilee, Jerash, Caesarea, Jericho, the Mount of Olives, Jerusalem, and Emmaus. Each site is illustrated, and the accompanying text, numbered to facilitate cross-reference, contains a bibliography. This edition has been completely revised to reflect the most recent scholarship and excavations, and it contains many new entries. Anyone concerned with the historical, geographical, and cultural background of the New Testament will want to study this classic work as it retraces the steps of Jesus. "The definitive handbook. Finegan's comprehensive treatment of almost every problem in the field of New Testament archeology as well as his judicious evaluation of the evidence makes this book indispensable to every serious student of the Bible."--The New York Times Book Review"

Then, there are the Annals of the Roman Emperors and the thousands of people who witnessed Jesus' Resurrection and who were put to death because they would not deny it.

We must also consider the rapid rise and spread of Christianity immediately following the recorded time of Jesus' Resurrection - and the billions of people in whom the Spirit of the Risen Christ has resided since - regardless if one considers it to be for better or for worse.

Additionally, there is the Talmud, Thallus, Phlegon, Mara Bar-Seropion, Lucian, Hadrian, Josephus, Tacitus, Suetonius and Pliny the Younger which all make reference to the historical person of Christ.

Here is a site dealing with Contemporary Scholarship and Historical Evidence for the Resurrection...

http://www.leaderu.com/truth/1truth22.html
 
Jesus was married, here's proof!!

First of all assuming that Jesus even existed, there were chapters omited of the all mighty lying book, that were left out to benefit the church. Follow me to this link that tells it right from the book itself:

http://www.artbulla.com/zion/married.html

The book shown tells of it!.
 
Oh!! heck I tried to show this link....

but I used another browser, so it was too confusing. However here's more proofs of the mythical jesus married story:

WAS JESUS MARRIED?

Michael T. Griffith

1994

@All Rights Reserved

Several early LDS leaders, including Brigham Young, expressed the opinion that Jesus was married. Anti-Mormons not only reject this view, but they consider it to be evidence that those leaders were not inspired. However, a good case can be made that Christ was in fact married.

From an LDS perspective, it makes sense that Jesus was married. Marriage is a divine command. It is doubtful that He did not comply with it. Eternal marriage is a necessary step in a man's exaltation. The Lord fulfilled all of the other gospel laws; it is logical to believe that He fulfilled this one as well. The Savior was our example in all righteous things. Marriage sealed by the power of the priesthood, besides being a commandment, is beautiful and holy in the sight of God. Therefore, since Jesus came to be the ultimate example for us, it is reasonable to conclude that He was married.

Non-Mormon Support

The idea that Jesus was married is not unique to the Latter-day Saints. Some Bible scholars and historians have also supported this view. For example, Protestant scholar William E. Phipps wrote an entire book arguing that the Savior was married. The book is entitled Was Jesus Married? In it, he presents scriptural and historical evidence that Christ was married. He also cites other scholars who believe or suspect that Jesus was married.

During a radio debate on the subject in 1981, Dr. Malachi Martin, a Catholic scholar and a former member of the Vatican's Pontifical Institute, "conceded that there was ultimately no real theological objection to a married Jesus" (Baigent, Leigh, and Lincoln 17).

A Father's Duty

Ancient Judaism identified five principal responsibilities of a father to his son, one of which was to arrange his marriage (Moore 2:127; Phipps 1973:39). I quote Phipps:

The last of the five duties laid down for a Jewish father was that of arranging a marriage for his son. . . . Around the time when a son was physically mature his father made a betrothal agreement with the guardian of an eligible girl. To delay this more than a decade beyond puberty was forbidden, and there is no definite indication of violators in any of the sects of ancient Judaism. Hillel and Shammai [two famous ancient rabbis], though differing on many points of scriptural interpretation, were united in affirming that no righteous man can abstain from keeping God's first command, "Be fruitful and multiply." (1973:44)

It is significant that no ancient Jewish writer accused Jesus' earthly father, Joseph, of failing to fulfill his five principal duties toward his son. If Joseph had failed in meeting any one of those responsibilities, Jewish critics surely would have used this against both him and his son. That ancient Jewish critics were silent on this point indicates that Joseph fulfilled each of the five obligations, including that of arranging his son's marriage.

Celibacy in Ancient Judaism

Some scholars contend that celibacy--the state of being unmarried--was not viewed negatively in ancient Judaism. In arguing for a celibate Jesus, Bible scholar Jane Schaberg writes,

Celibacy was unusual, but not unknown or denigrated in Judaism of the first century. . . : witness the descriptions of the lifestyles of the people of Qumran [Essenes] and of the Therapeutae (a first-century B.C.E. [=BC] Jewish monastic group in Egypt). (47)

However, the evidence does not seem to sustain this view. As noted, Phipps contends that "there is no definite indication of violators [of the command to marry] in any of the sects of ancient Judaism" (1973:44). Paul Achtemeier and Lawrence Schiffman discuss the alleged celibacy of various Jewish groups, including the Essenes at Qumran and elsewhere:

Some of sectarians of the Second Commonwealth period, including the Essenes, practiced celibacy by separating from their wives after fulfilling the commandment of procreation. While, according to many scholars, members of the Dead Sea sect appear to have been celibate, they also seem to have been married, and a marriage ritual is presented in their scrolls. (In Achtemeier 1985:609)

Jewish author Trude Weiss-Rosmarin discusses Judaism's views on celibacy and marriage in both ancient and modern times:

To the Jew celibacy is not only unnatural but definitely contrary to the will of God Who commanded man and woman to be fruitful and multiply and Who created the earth "not a waste; He formed it to be inhabited" (Isaiah 45:18). Marriage, therefore, is not a necessary evil but the joyful consummation of human destiny. . . . The Jews never doubted its legitimacy, for, according to the Rabbis, he who is unmarried lives "without joy, without blessing, without goodness" (Yebamoth 62b). Apart, man and woman are incomplete for "the human being is man and his wife." (69-70)

And Rabbi Abba Silver observed:

The renunciation of normal sex life was never regarded as a virtue in Judaism. This is one of the marked differences which distinguishes Judaism from most of the classic religions of mankind. (In Phipps 1973:15)

One late-first-century Jewish writer even compared deliberate celibacy with murder, "and he does not seem to have been alone in this attitude" (Baigent, Leigh, and Lincoln 330). And, as mentioned, one of the five primary responsibilities of the ancient Jewish father to his son was to arrange for him to be married.

A Revealing Silence

The New Testament does not explicitly take a position on Jesus' marital status. There is no statement therein to the effect that He was married, and there is no statement to the effect that He was not. This silence in itself suggests that He was married. In the Palestinian Jewish culture of Christ's day, marriage was the norm, and celibacy was viewed as unusual, if not wrong. After discussing this fact, non-Mormon scholar Charles Davis observes the following:

Granted the cultural background as witnessed . . . it is highly improbable that Jesus was not married well before the beginning of his public ministry. If he had insisted on celibacy, it would have created a stir, a reaction which would have left some trace. So, the lack of mention of Jesus' marriage in the Gospels is a strong argument not against but for the hypothesis of marriage, because any practice or advocacy of voluntary celibacy would in the Jewish context of the time have been so unusual as to have attracted much attention and comment. (In Baigent, Leigh, and Lincoln 331)

Phipps agrees:

According to Semitic tradition it was as obligatory for a father to find a wife for his son as to teach him and circumcise him. Hence, even if there were no reference in the Gospels to Jesus's circumcision, it would be wrong to conclude that his father neglected or rejected that duty. Just as the Koran does not mention circumcision and takes the obligation of marriage for granted, so the Gospels do not mention the circumcision or marriage of most of the men who are discussed in it. This is due to the fact that those social institutions were practiced in a thoroughgoing manner in the Semitic culture. Deviations from normative behavior are more likely to be remembered and thus lodged in oral and written traditions, so it makes sense to assume that Jesus and his apostles were all circumcised and married. (1973:44-45)

Non-Mormon scholars Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh, and Henry Lincoln likewise concur:

If Jesus was not married, this fact would have been glaringly conspicuous. It would have drawn attention to itself and been used to characterize and identify him. It would have set him apart, in some significant sense, from his contemporaries. If this were the case, surely at least one of the Gospel accounts would make some mention of so marked a deviation from custom? If Jesus were indeed as celibate as later tradition claims, it is extraordinary that there is no reference to any such celibacy. The absence of any such reference strongly suggests that Jesus, as far as the question of celibacy was concerned, conformed to the conventions of his time and culture--suggests, in short, that he was married. (331)

Jesus as a Rabbi or Teacher

Some scholars suggest that the Savior underwent formal rabbinic training and may have even been ordained as a rabbi. This suggestion cannot be casually dismissed, since there is credible evidence to support it (see, for example, Phipps 1973:37-50). In fact, the Gospels frequently apply the title of "Rabbi" to the Savior. Note Baigent, Leigh, and Lincoln,

It is possible, of course, that this term is employed in its broadest sense, meaning simply a self-appointed teacher. But Jesus' literacy--his display of knowledge to the elders in the temple, for example--strongly suggests that he was more than a self- appointed teacher. It suggests that he underwent some species of formal rabbinical training and was officially recognized as a rabbi. This would conform to tradition, which depicts Jesus as a rabbi in the strict sense of the word. (331)

Several early Mormon leaders were Protestant ministers before joining the Church, and the apostle Paul was a Pharisee before his conversion. It is not inconceivable that Jesus may have underwent rabbinic training and even been a rabbi before starting His Messianic ministry. Personally, I doubt that Christ was a rabbi, but I cannot categorically reject this possibility. If Jesus was a rabbi, this fact alone would indicate He was married. Perhaps Jesus received rabbinic training but was not formally ordained. Or, perhaps the people viewed Him as a rabbi even though He had not been ordained as one.

In any case, there is no doubt that Christ presented Himself as an inspired religious teacher. As such, He would have been expected to be married. According to an ancient Jewish text, the Mishnah, an unmarried man "may not be a teacher" (Kiddushim 4, 13; Phipps 1973:45).1 Phipps has more to say on this point:

After a Jewish man became adept at Torah instruction, skilled at a craft, and successfully married, he was, according to the Sayings of the Fathers, "fit at thirty for authority." If he desired to instruct others the last qualification [i.e., marriage] was stressed. . . . In a recent study, Schalom Ben-Chorin of Jerusalem argues that Jesus married because an unmarried teacher was unimaginable in the culture in which he participated. We know nothing about the wives of Hillel, Shammai . . . and many other notable men of that era and culture, Ben-Chorin admits, but had they been unmarried, surely their opponents would have pointed to their violation of sacred duty as a basis for criticism. (1973:45)

The Wedding at Cana

Several early Mormon leaders suggested that the wedding at Cana was Christ's own wedding. A number of non-Mormon scholars have studied the wedding account as it is recorded in John 2:1-12 and have reached the same conclusion. For example, Baigent, Leigh, and Lincoln say, "In the Fourth Gospel there is an episode related to a marriage that may, in fact, have been Jesus' own" (331).

There are indeed elements in the wedding account that suggest it was the Savior's wedding. For instance, scholars have noted that Mary behaved as if she was the hostess. Also, the fact that Mary asked Christ to replenish the wine indicates He was responsible for the catering, which in turn suggests He was the bridegroom. Furthermore, after the "governor of the feast" tasted the replenished wine, he addressed "the bridegroom," saying, "thou has kept the good wine until now" (John 2:9-10). Since Jesus had just replenished the wine, the obvious and logical implication is that He was the one being spoken to and hence the bridegroom. Baigent, Leigh, and Lincoln observe, "These [the governor's] words clearly seem to be addressed to Jesus" (332-333).

Was Mary Magdalene Jesus' Wife?

A number of early Mormon leaders entertained the idea that Mary Magdalene was Jesus' wife. Several non-Mormon scholars have likewise suggested that Christ and Mary were married. Before discussing this matter further, mention should be made of the erroneous tradition that Mary was a prostitute. This tradition was introduced long after the New Testament was written, and there is not the slightest bit of evidence in the Gospels to support it. No credible modern New Testament scholar believes that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute, or that she should be identified with the sinful woman in Luke 7.

Interestingly, an ancient Gnostic Christian text identifies Mary as the Savior's "intimate companion." This status seems to be supported in the Gospels:

. . . it is clear that the Magdalen, by the end of Jesus' ministry, had become a figure of immense significance. In the three Synoptic Gospels [Matthew, Mark, and Luke] her name consistently heads the list of women who followed Jesus, just as Simon Peter heads the list of male disciples. And, of course, she was the first witness to the empty tomb following the crucifixion. Among all his devotees it was to the Magdalen that Jesus first chose to reveal his Resurrection.

Throughout the Gospels Jesus treats the Magdalen in a unique and preferential manner. (Baigent, Leigh, and Lincoln 334)

N. Lee Smith of the University of Utah succinctly discusses some of the New Testament indications that Mary was Jesus' wife:

When Mary Magdalene recognized Jesus after his resurrection, she said "Rabboni," an Aramaic term sometimes reserved for one's husband (John 20:1-18). The constant traveling of Mary with him, her vigil at the cross and presence when he was taken down, her coming to anoint his body with spices, his tender appearance first to her after the resurrection . . . and her central role in the following events, all suggest that Mary was his wife. (46-47)

Conclusion

While the Bible does not explicitly teach that Christ was married, it does provide a great deal of circumstantial evidence to this effect. It is not credible to reject the prophetic calling of Brigham Young and other early LDS leaders simply because they believed Jesus was married.

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ABOUT THE AUTHOR: Michael T. Griffith holds two Associate of Applied Science degrees from the Community College of the Air Force and is awaiting the awarding of a Bachelor of Science degree from Excelsior College in Albany, New York. He is a two-time graduate of the Defense Language Institute in Monterey, California, and of the U.S. Air Force Technical Training School in San Angelo, Texas. He is the author of four books on Mormonism and ancient texts. He has completed advanced Hebrew programs at Haifa University in Israel and at the Spiro Institute in London, England. While at BYU he was a research assistant for Dr. Ross T. Christensen of the Society for Early Historic Archaeology. His published works on gospel subjects include Refuting the Critics (Bountiful, Utah: Horizon Publishers, 1992) and A Ready Reply: Answering Challenging Questions About the Gospel (Horizon Publishers, 1994), and One Lord, One Faith: Writings of the Early Christian Fathers as Evidences of the Restoration (Horizon Publishers, 1996).

*** One Lord, One Faith can be purchased or ordered from your local LDS bookstore, or you can order it directly from Horizon Publishers via their toll-free number 1-800-453-0812. One Lord, One Faith documents dozens of parallels between Mormonism and ancient Christianity and is an excellent book for investigators and members alike. It is also an excellent companion book to the famous talk tape "The 17 Points of the True Church." If you'd like to order the book online, click here.
 
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M*W: This is an excellent post brought back to life.

tiassa said:
A note or two toward the possibility of Jesus having a wife:That speaks pretty much for itself. The second point is that I have heard it asserted that rabbis must be married; Jesus was, after all, called Teacher. On this point, though, I’m a little shaky; I was crawling my usual text sources for it with no luck, so AskJeeves finally did me a favor (I’ve never been a fan or it) and pointed me to a Quick Fact Sheet called Was Jesus Married? which reflects this very point, among others:[/font]Unfortunately, I can’t seem to get a link to an LDS site called Jesus Was Married to work right now. (See? I told you I’m not a fan of AskJeeves.)

Hopefully, though, the one linke will work at all (I haven’t even seen it yet), and the other will prove of use for the discussion.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:
 
Enigma'07 said:
Some one read DaVinci's Code one two many times.
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M*W: Come on, Enigma, there are tons of other books written on the subject. His was just a popular novel about the same thing that Laurence Gardner and even before him Schofield who wrote the Passover Plot. You people think I'm making this stuff up. I wish I had! Then I'd be rich.
 
I was teasing you. I have a new twist for you. Why don't you write a book about how Jesus wan't married to Mary Magdaline, but instead had a secrete relationship with Peter. Would that make you righ? I shouldn't have said that because now some one will try it.
 
It's not surprising that there's no mention in the Bible of Jesus being married (even if that's true) but I find it odd that the apocryphal gospels are also silent on this. One would expect to find something there about Jesus' marriage and his children and yet there's nothing.

True, there's a mention in the Gospel of Philip (Nag Hammadi) of Jesus kissing Mary Magdalene on the lips. That might be a bit suspicious.
But then, there's also the curious reaction of the disciples; they ask Jesus - "Why do you love her more than all of us?". I find this question rather odd, if Mary Magdalene was indeed his wife.
 
Enigma'07 said:
I was teasing you. I have a new twist for you. Why don't you write a book about how Jesus wan't married to Mary Magdaline, but instead had a secrete relationship with Peter. Would that make you righ? I shouldn't have said that because now some one will try it.
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M*W: I couldn't do that, because I don't believe that Jesus had a "secret relationship" with Peter. Their relationship was tense at best, and there is no writings that I am aware of that would insinuate that Jesus and Peter had a "secret relationship." I believe they did have a "relationship," but it was more of a teaching relationship. Now if you want to talk about "secret relationships," we can discuss Paul's relationship with Jesus, whom he never knew, or Paul's relationship with Timothy, which has been linked to their having a homosexual affair. I don't know if this is true or not, but it's been discussed on this forum. I doubt that anyone would try to write such a book, because there is no proof of a sexual liaison between Jesus and Peter.
 
Circe said:
It's not surprising that there's no mention in the Bible of Jesus being married (even if that's true) but I find it odd that the apocryphal gospels are also silent on this. One would expect to find something there about Jesus' marriage and his children and yet there's nothing.

True, there's a mention in the Gospel of Philip (Nag Hammadi) of Jesus kissing Mary Magdalene on the lips. That might be a bit suspicious. But then, there's also the curious reaction of the disciples; they ask Jesus - "Why do you love her more than all of us?". I find this question rather odd, if Mary Magdalene was indeed his wife.
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M*W: I believe anything that was written that would indicate Jesus and MM were more than Master and Student was left out by the compilers of the NT, long after Jesus' "departure."
 
Blonde Cupid:

Then, there are the Annals of the Roman Emperors and the thousands of people who witnessed Jesus' Resurrection and who were put to death because they would not deny it.

Can you name so much as one of these thousand of witnesses so we can give them a lie detector test, prove their credibility, or even their existence for that matter?

While I do not deny that loads of people have been put to death, and many have been put to death because they wont change their opinions - it shows nothing in the form of reliable evidence.

We must also consider the rapid rise and spread of Christianity immediately following the recorded time of Jesus' Resurrection - and the billions of people in whom the Spirit of the Risen Christ has resided since - regardless if one considers it to be for better or for worse.

Within it's first month, Pokemon had become an integral part of millions upon millions of peoples lives. That doesn't instantly mean that Pikachu is god. To this day, Pokemon resides in the hearts of millions of adoring followers.

Additionally, there is the Talmud, Thallus, Phlegon, Mara Bar-Seropion, Lucian, Hadrian, Josephus, Tacitus, Suetonius and Pliny the Younger which all make reference to the historical person of Christ

This is not evidence of anything. Let's take a further look..

Tacitus: Born 55 AD. In summary: He wasn't even born when jesus had gone the way of the dodo- and as such, has nothing of validity to say.

Pliny the Younger: Born 62 AD. In summary: He wasn't even born when jesus had gone the way of the dodo- and as such, has nothing of validity to say.

Suetonius: Born 69 AD. In summary: He wasn't even born when jesus had gone the way of the dodo- and as such, has nothing of validity to say.

Hadrian: Born 117 AD. In summary: He wasn't even born when jesus had gone the way of the dodo- and as such, has nothing of validity to say.

Thallus: Born 50-75 AD. In summary: He wasn't even born when jesus had gone the way of the dodo- and as such, has nothing of validity to say.

Phlegon: Born 1st Century. In summary: He wasn't even born when jesus had gone the way of the dodo- and as such, has nothing of validity to say.

Mara Bar Serapion: Written around 160 AD - over a century after the death of jesus. It has nothing of validity to say.

Josephus: Born 37 AD. Well he's certainly a lot closer, but he would have been a toddler when jesus kicked the holy bucket, if jesus hadn't have already kicked the holy bucket, and as such has nothing worthwhile to say.

What's next? You going to use a novel written last week as evidence?
 
M*W: I couldn't do that, because I don't believe that Jesus had a "secret relationship" with Peter. Their relationship was tense at best, and there is no writings that I am aware of that would insinuate that Jesus and Peter had a "secret relationship." I believe they did have a "relationship," but it was more of a teaching relationship. Now if you want to talk about "secret relationships," we can discuss Paul's relationship with Jesus, whom he never knew, or Paul's relationship with Timothy, which has been linked to their having a homosexual affair. I don't know if this is true or not, but it's been discussed on this forum. I doubt that anyone would try to write such a book, because there is no proof of a sexual liaison between Jesus and Peter.

Do you take everything seriously?
 
Medicine Woman said:
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M*W: I believe anything that was written that would indicate Jesus and MM were more than Master and Student was left out by the compilers of the NT, long after Jesus' "departure."
Classic selection bias - you "believe anything" consonant with your presuppositions. Nothing in your statement, and nothing in your participation, shows the slightest interest in evidence or reason. Methodologically, the only difference between you and the most absurd inerrantist is that your blather is more neurotic.
 
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