wes
it would be nice if such a concept is backed up , and not just stated . Refuting something by saying it is refuted isnt valid .
Of course not, you don't believe in those concepts. If you DID, you would possibly have a different opinion.
I dont believe in those concepts of YOURS , since yours are determinded by some chemical reactions in your body , thus u "feel" something to be good/bad .
I already told you If we are to create an ethical theory I would go with some form of utilitarianism or social contract , but if we are going to define the damn ontological state of ETHICS , we end up wit 0 . Illusions of what is bad or good based on emotions .
So regarding to your bullshit right here , you cant seem to distinguish the 2 . There's no such thing as good nor bad , just good for and bad for . Now when we take the Jews in Israel and the Palestinians , i can show you mathematical even if u wish , why at this moment the Palestinians having it "good" is worth more than the Jews having it "bad" . Ofcourse there is logical reasoning to this conclusions , are we here unfolding each and every aspect of why this is so , with me additionally proving it isnt so because I happen to consider them by brothers ?
If no ethics were involved in this matter , why care at all ? Just blow em all up , jews arabs....who cares , no difference , no right nor wrong , just blow up the planet ......why am i not saying that then ?
How is it that you think you can see it more clearly than everyone else? Oh, because your little eyes are open. Doesn't seem to matter much since you're blind.
Because I AM this because I AM that . Not because I DO this or SAY this....no....because I AM such and such....and now its blind that I AM . Something IS such and such because it DOES(or does not) such and such . U cant define something being something with something being something else , thats illogic .
you don't have to authority to determine who is the oppressor and who is oppressed. that is something to be decided by a group of informed people, who appreciate "right" and "wrong" and "good" and "bad". you disqualify yourself with your acidic attitude.
Nobody has , conlusion : Anarchy . fine with me as well . Fuck calling u opressor , lets start the shooting .
Uh-huh. What if your definition of "oppression" is flawed? What if you missed something? What if you are a murderous asshole with a mental problem? You think you would know it? Oh, your eyes are open eh? I think maybe someone dropped some hallucinogens in them man, because your version of "oppresion" or "occupiers" which YOU haven't defined wouldn't match mine I'm sure. Even if so, you act like you're the judge and fucking jury.
You're not.
We dont have a jury in Euro
And no Im not some asshole with a mental problem , because I am too damn intelligent to be captured in this sad little concept of "mental problematic" . Get the fuck out man , u cant even define sociopath and now u start fucking with the mentally problematics ? I define occupier easily . I look at the world and see who suffers more and who suffers less , and look at the cause and effect relation , bringing me to the situation of opressor and opressed . Easy
And i say lets take it simple , since its the simple things we can measure : Cash , the magical connecter . Cash is the greatest tool in showing who is suffering more and who is suffering less . Now if u wish to get philosophical agin , and come up with crap like , maybe the rich man suffers much more heavily possibly than the poor man , Id tell u the intelligent man is suffering more as well , but such things are a matter of psychology , and not a matter of direct physical survival , whitch I believ comes first , or are u one of those who prefers to be hungry than for instant broken hearted ?
And to come back to you pointing the finger at me again with this or that definition of me being something , if it is to deciding who is who and what is what according to MY philosophy , isnt it goddamn LOGICAL that i claim authority for its design : I am not the only the Judge and the Jury , I am also the King and Emperor and everything else u might invision authorized when it comes down to MY understanding of the matters .
The muslims have a saying : Allah knows best . I agree with them .
Uh-huh. Would you call them your brothers? Oh, and I don't care about christians in Euro, I don't care about Jews... I care about people.
Sure I would call them by brothers , hey id even call u bro . Man u too emotionally tied . I care about people to , but not all of them like you maybe . I only care for the opressed , not for the opressor . Thats why i would care for the mid-evil Jews in Euro and not for the Christians back then......well , Id care for the Christians against the Ottomans .....hey hows that , they're my brothers by Islam (like Arabs are by culture/ethnicity) , or wasnt that the kind of brotherhood u was aiming at ?
My conceptions are beyond brotherhood bro
Why should the US kick out the jews? They're taxpayers. They contribute to the economy. They're US citizens
I told u that , it would be necesarry for the breaking of ties with Israel . But lets not get into that , since we all know u dont agree with my views on USA Jewry and its influence on the USA policy concerning the state of Israel . And I didnt mean kick all the Jews out.....just those who would rebell . Perhaps it will lead to the maybe very much wanted by some peacefull Jews , distinction between the community and the Kayks .
Why do you care what is palestinian? Why would it stop there? Because you don't see individuals? Funny, it takes individuals to make up a group. I see most groups like "palestinians" or "jews" as valid for points regarding generalizations only, because the complexities and circumstances of the individuals involved outweighs my association of them with a group.
It does take individuals to make a group , but a group does not need ALL its individuals to be charaterized AS a group . But thats a utilitarian approach u probbaly wouldnt agree with mr "do unto others" . The difference is I would kill 100 to save 1000 , would you ?
The backstabbing USA eh? Can you get a bit more self-righteous for me please. That is the stupidest shit I've ever heard. What a small mind you must have to limit your criticism of international politics to "the backstabbing USA". Every country has their own agenda and is pushing it as hard as they can. That is the way of things. It's a huge race and everyone is jockeying for position. The US is one of the major winners so you sound like a spiteful little bitch when you say "backstabbing
Hell yes...because its not the politcal USA-Israeli relation we consider here , but Jewry within USA . And hell yes thats backstabbing , the Jews build ur country to what it is today the last 50 years . They did for YOU an incredible job , and letting go of them would be betrayal Id say . Sure everybody has got their own agenda , but the Jewish agenda for the last 50 years has done alot of Amerikans like U lots and lots of good .
And the consequence would be enormous , breaking off with Israel would lead eventually to certain genocide of the Jews , as a Jew I would consider that backstabbing since the reason u are ABLE to perform such backstabbings in the first place would be because of Jewry .
I don't care. It's all history now.
Not caring about history is not enabling understanding of the cause-effect proces . Denying the cause all the time , wont make the effect go away .
I think you think you're right, and that you think you're absolutely fair and bright enough to encompass the scope of the problem with your mind in such a manner that you reach the only viable conclusions. To that I say you're fucking delusional.
Is it incredible how u do not refute one single thing , but re-define me being something all the time.
Now Im delusional , GREAT . Show me my illusions , I can provide u (and have) backup for each statement I make . Ur backup simply consists of defining me to be this or that .
Im this because Im that because Im this because im that blablablablabla
They are indicative to higher thinking. I would and will say that a conscious being inherently contemplates ethics on some level. They are created by the condition of consciousness, for that consciousness.
Things created ONLY by consicousness , i call ILLUSIONS .
Sure we could agree on people have these an that rights , the problem is I say there are no rights outside of those we are MAKING UP . Not that there's aproblem with making up all sorts of illusions for some purpose , the only thing im saying is be conscious of the fact U MADE SHIT UP , whitch means its NOT real .
Therefor , people have no rights nor duties .
Exactly, hence the individual is important.
And thats where utilitarianism comes in .
Capitalism is the superior system. It lets the individual decide they're level of involvement.
No it does not . Anarchy allows the individual to decide their level of involvement at a higher level then capitalism .
But Im not pro that either (although I prefer it for me personally) , because i dont think people should have that much to decide , u c i find people irresponsible ignorant beings who are incapable of living a civilized lives all by themselves . Todays society is prrof of that . 10% are millionaires compared to the 90% who have SHIT .
And why ? Cuz ur born in the bed of the opressor or on the floor of the opressed .
Isnt' that a different conversation?
No it isnt , I simply am giving u a point why my system is better than yours , it provides for more people than your capitalism . U take care for the 10% , and I for the 90% , its that simple .
U make more people suffer than i do , yet u consider u should be "good" to people . Is making people suffer being "good" acoording to your ethics ?
I know you are. I'm of the opposite perspective. "why bother?" Don't you think it would take more resources than are available to all of humanity?
Not really , c i wont all allow all recourses to be spend on the most dumb things ever , like they are now . I could save up more than enough to create an extreme global change without exhausting the resources
The people doing that should stop it. I agree. I don't call them jews. I call them "people doing bad things".
U call them whatever u want , they call themselves jews . I merely respect their own definition , since i cant see it having any errors .
Sure.....the Palestines will do the same soon enough , but as a reaction to the jews.
Shut up man im not giving out prophecies here , whats relevant is the logical effect that would take place , the fact that they will do the same when they are in position to do so . Its irellevant weither they will be in that position or not for my point , whitch was that they will chase people out of their houses as well , but as an effect......and ofcourse that will be a cause of new jewish hated against the palestinians etc .
I don't know. I'm not the hospital, nor am I letigious. If I lost and eye from it, I'd prolly want some punitive damages if possible from whomever having fucked me over. My main concern would be to ensure the fuck wasn't in the position to do that shit again.
Than ur position is changed , u only demanded him to stop and pay bills .
You apparently have a simplistic understanding of capitalism. It is to my advantage, personally.. not to hang on to hate. Capitalism in my opinion isn't limited to money.
Sure...now my view is simplistic , care to share with me WHY ?
Sure capitalism isnt limited to money , its limited to capital , and capital is that what has worth . Money is just its bitch . And yea , i know its to your advantage , and guess what , its to my advantage as well . The thing is , it isnt advantagous eqqually for most people , and about 90% are just advantageous compared to death . I dont compare capital benefits to what is there without the benefits , i compare it to another benefits , and thats you , and your benefits are sick and so are mine .
you said ontological. Who the fuck do you think you are to determine the absolute truth? That's funny. You'r the expert on existence I'm sure.. for you. The funny (and scary) part is that you are so egomaniacal as to think you can tell ME what existence is to ME.
But thats a discussion ender wesmorris , a very foolish argument , Because this brings us to I say A and u say B and we cant tell eachother otherwise so why the hell have a goddamn conversation about ANYTHING , unless we both agree on what it is ? Thats sad and closeminded . I am willing to bend my opinion if u would provide me arguments , u arent prepared to bend yours , ur just prepared to call me names . U by definition tell me i cant know better then u . I dont .....
Ontology is a branch of metaphysics, AM.
is it , perhaps my conclusion is wrong then on the matter . I was merely refering to metaphysics as it has to do with creationism i believe..... And i was merely looking into how something is , not how it is created and why it is created .
Thats all ......
According to you by my own , and I just gotta disagree on that . Im just nice to the idiot who cant see that I aint nice at all .
Im nowhere near nice according to my own defintion .
That's pathetic. You say I oppress by paying tax and voting and supporting my economy. I say, if you think that's oppression, then so be it. I call it "living".
Sure , living good as an effect of others suffering , thats what i call opression . The difference is u are not conscious of u opressing , because it has been spread and chopped and divided etc into 'individualism" and "irrelsponsability" .
Indeed so be it . I say ignorance may be a bliss , its no excuse .
U opress , weither u care to know it , or weither u care to believe it .
I wasn't refuting by calling you names, I was just fucking with you by calling you names... I was refuting by the other stuff that I said that you apparently don't respect.
Whitch other things ? Please..show me how u refute my shit .
Is it not true that with your taxmoney a nation is bombed for instance ? That makes u responsible in the rules of cause and effect , and like i said , if u prefer the anarchic approach of "not my bussiness" , i agree as well....but no laws or ethics or other crap are my bussiness either.....so lets start nuking .
Well, I hope to continue learning until I die.
I wanna stop just before my death so i can enjoy my final lesson
I think you're wrong. I think they're indacative of your humanity, which you seem to be intent on shedding. Believe me, you seem to be doing a good job.
This is indeed humanity , since humanity are these ignorant emotional creatures . Sure its humane , humane is ignorant and emotional . There is no way in this world u can provide evidence for something to be endlessly good , because for every WHY u will answer refering to something else , and that something else stops somewhere......maybe ur a theist , that would make things clear . Im sure ur not though , so what is that ultimate thing showing and proving something to be good ?
There isnt .
And you call me simplistic. Oh man. Okay, give me an example of cause and effect and I'll pick it apart and tell you why you don't really know shit.
cause : u profiting
effect : another suffering
Lets just take the economical aspect , perhaps u can "pick that apart" .
Maybe I should have moved to Iraq. You are right, I will never take responsibility for things that are outside of my direct sphere of control. What a pussy eh? Shit, I like it here! Oh no, I better stop that because some jerk on the other side of the planet thinks I'm oppressing someone somewhere else on the other side of the globe. I halfassed care but honestly, it's not economical for me to sweat it. It does not weigh on my conscience. I personally have never oppressed anyone in my life. If my $10,000 dollars per year fucks someone over ten people down the line, I feel bad for them but it's not my intent. Oh wait... I forgot, I probably don't even think "oppression" is that same thing you do. I may agree on "you chased me with a gun" but I don't agree that "it's cool for me to be pissed at the kid of the guy who chased me". That's just stupid and hatefull (unless the kid does something to you to).
blablablablabla
This universe , and even this globe , is way to big to consider ur personal little bitching . All I can say is I hope sincerely the reinmcarnation fairy tales are real en u end up starving in Africa in your next life ...... hey , if that would be the case , we can just leave everything the way it is .
And with that ok to be mad at the chaser but not his kid , its more like . I am pissed at the person robbing me . And Im pissed at his kid who profits from my money as well . That is if the kid is to be held responsible , I do make exceptions for kids since I still have some reasonless ethics left in my system .
You are biased by your mode of thinking. You cannot separate yourself from it. You can change it, but you will then be biased by your NEW mode of thinking... that's the way it is. I'm sure that's not enough of an explanation right? How else can I tell you? It's my fault for not being able to communicate effectively I'm sure, but to me.. I just answered your question.
No I understand ur concept , and like I say I agree with it , although its irellevant for me to be biased in such a way . The point is that through this biased opinionating I nevertheless achieved objectivity . And more importantly , was the traditional(and less philosophical) concept of biasedness : The fact that I would benefit personally with a certain opion , like : Im rich thus Im capitalist ...... thats whats relevant biasedness , since u could say .......sure u are , but if u were poor u wouldnt be . Well , Im rich enough, and Im not a capitalist .
Because you are a conscious, subjective being.. you are biased. End of story.
Agreed , but its irellevant like i said .
You are simply deluded. Have you ever changed your mind on anything? Judgement as you seem to so easily pass it, is an action based on circumstance and time. As you continue to learn things in life, your mind should expand to encompass more than it previously encompassed. This should continue ad infinitum, for the universe it more complex than that which can fit in a human mind. Since you expand your comprehension, your judgement of a scenario should change over time... hence you are biased to your state of development at any given time.... not to mention the fact that your particular perspective can only encompass that which passes through your perception. That matter is inherently limited regardless of your amount of prayer or meditation.
I got ur point along time ago . All im saying its irellevant for the current opinion in the sense we are discussing here . Yes I am biased by DEFINITION . Nevertheless i would say the same if I would be an Israeli , thats what im talking about .
You know what I do with my money? I try to make a nice life for my family. That's my concern. Fuck your "oppressor" bullshit... I just want a halfassed stable life like anyone else.
Everybody else has kind of problems with it because u are doing so nicely .
Keep dreaming jackass. LOL
As if shit never happened before . Why do people always seem to assume their current situation to be forever . 9-11 was a big surprise too , why ?
If that's the relationship YOU choose to establish, so be it. I'm sure you'll make sure I don't see you coming. Makes me thankfull I keep assholes like you and your brothers oppressed
Well , between u and me personally little is happening , since i wont go to Amerika and u probably wont come to Euro .
If ur happy for the opression , GREAT . Makes me feeling "ethically" assured Im doing the "right" thing .
Okay, so you're a stealthy "occupyer/murderer/oppressor etc......", great. That makes it okay.
No , i already gave u more arguments , whitch dealt with economy and support . Thats what makes it ok . I do all I can , i couldnt do more than I can could I ?
You should see my daughters man... they're beautiful and wonderful creatures. As lovely as I've ever seen. Jeez, maybe Tiassa was right about that whole illusion thing? I'm sure you'll find a way to bash it.
Im sure they are , although u must understand i say this conscious of the fact no such concepts as beauty or wonderfullness exist . Hey..actually im thinking out this theory , that i might be wrong about all this good/bad/beautifull/ugly concepts dont exist , because I seperate them all . perhaps they all exist as a unity only . But besides all that , great u seem to care for ur daughters , but U must undersand that perhaps to you they are the most important thing in the world , to me they are not . Not because of who they are , but because of who others are . Im sure u wont ever agree with me as a father , and u shouldnt . And whats with what Tiassa says on illusions , id love to bash it but i gotta know first what it is before i do that ........
Wow, thanks on behalf of my family for your understanding and caring perspective. You are SUCH a nice guy.
And thank YOU for caring about the OTHER families around this globe .
You can't blame the children for the sins of the fathers. If you do, they are doomed to repeat them (they might be anyway, but good ETHICS would dictate that you give them their opportunity to make their own mistakes). Oh, and now that I think about.. we should add above that ethics is also about what's "fair", which can be associate with "good" but isn't neccesarily the same thing.
Who says Im holding them responsible for that ? Israel exists 55 years , so a Israeli Zionist born in this state could be 55 even......who's talking about what daddy did , im talking about what they do . Like I said , i dont blame innocent children , ignorance is still no bliss , i just dont expect them to know or to understand untill a certain point . That point comes when they are active and supporting , thus opressing .
And the point with fair , fair is when equality is being established . I understand why u distinguiosh between good and fair , I am sure I disagree with that on some level , I just cant grasp yet how exactly , accept for the fact that equality can be measured and exists (when asuming anything possible exists at all) , while good is made up by man .
But im sure there are more ways to show a difference within fair-good u mean not to exist .
No, as far as I know, arabs are FAR bigger terrorists but you know what? I blame terrorists for being terrorists. I generally blame religion for creating terrorists, really though it's just statistical, there will always be some fucks somewhere that are pissed off about some stupid shit. I have a good idea, let's give them tv and taco bell so that the idiots stay pacified eh? No? Playstation will fix them.
Ur misinformed , obviously counted wrongly for actually more than obvious reasons . Or u just cant define terrorism , thats possible as well . Blaming religion for terrorists is pretty dumb , because most terrorists in for instance Palestine arent all that religious .
But Im sure we dont agree on what terrorism is in the first place .
And blaming it on guys who are pissed about stupid shit......u are seriously insulting the suffering of my brothers here . Thats cool though .
Certainly a simpleton like myself could never think on YOUR level. It's just not possible.
Oh its possible , and I never called u a simpleton , just a nerd .
