Life Should be Common in the Universe, physicists say

[Nightshift]

Planck was wrong. And a believer (of sorts). Scientists can be right about the science and woefully misguided on philosophical issues.

All that is reasonable to believe is that life is common in the universe. Civilizations aren't common even on Earth. Of the 3.5 billion years life has been here, civilizations have only been here for 10-20K years. Intelligent life slightly longer. Civilization may not even be a sustainable model of living. There is nothing to indicate that intelligence is a likely adaptation. So statistically speaking, we should not be surrounded by civilizations.

I smell some problems with your ... analysis shall we call it?

Civilizations may not be common on Earth, but that's probably because we have only been around that long 10-20k. The real application is using Earth as a reference frame: since the first cell on Earth appeared, has life flourished? Yes it has, it has even started up five times during five mass extinctions. So yes, using Earth as a frame of reference, life should be teeming in the universe. Life certainly has been relentless on Earth, why it can't be relentless elsewhere is an open but logical question.

 

[paddoboy]

Planck was wrong. And a believer (of sorts). Scientists can be right about the science and woefully misguided on philosophical issues.

No, Planck was not wrong...We all at one time or another, stand on the shoulders of giants, to see further.

Life both primitive and advanced, exist most likely, for very obvious reasons.
If it didn't, we would have far more questions to answer.

Contact between species has two natural barriers...time and distance.


If earth has been visited in the past, the reality of that situation is that any visitation has left no evidence to confirm it, and the multitude of rubbish UFO claims by some, has well and truly drowned out any worthwhile discussion on that issue.
The over riding scenario is of course, we have no convincing evidence of any such visitation.

It's there though, and I do believe one day in the future, some evidence will be found confirming the existence of ETL....In fact some astrobiologists predict within the next 20 years or so.

 

[spidergoat]

No, Planck was not wrong...We all at one time or another, stand on the shoulders of giants, to see further.

Life both primitive and advanced, exist most likely, for very obvious reasons.
If it didn't, we would have far more questions to answer.

Contact between species has two natural barriers...time and distance.


If earth has been visited in the past, the reality of that situation is that any visitation has left no evidence to confirm it, and the multitude of rubbish UFO claims by some, has well and truly drowned out any worthwhile discussion on that issue.
The over riding scenario is of course, we have no convincing evidence of any such visitation.

It's there though, and I do believe one day in the future, some evidence will be found confirming the existence of ETL....In fact some astrobiologists predict within the next 20 years or so.

And those giants are merely human beings. It is not likely that life in the universe is intelligent. I explained how it's only existed on Earth for a tiny fraction of it's total existence. Granted, that is only one data point, but it makes sense that life is likely, but intelligent life is rare.

 

[paddoboy]

Granted, that is only one data point, but it makes sense that life is likely, but intelligent life is rare.

"


I may agree with that, but being "rare" is relative.

Intelligent Life in the Milky way may be rare...yet there still maybe a 1000 examples of it.

 

[Magical Realist]

What about possible life in the rest of the ~95% of the universe (dark energy and dark matter)?

Dark matter lifeforms? Sure..why not?

http://www.space.com/21508-dark-matter-atoms-disks.html

 

[spidergoat]

"


I may agree with that, but being "rare" is relative.

Intelligent Life in the Milky way may be rare...yet there still maybe a 1000 examples of it.

And instances of developing faster than light drive?

 

[dumbest man on earth]

"


I may agree with that, but being "rare" is relative.

Intelligent Life in the Milky way may be rare...yet there still maybe a 1000 examples of it.

Yess, paddoboy, "rare" is relative!

1,000 relative to 1,000,000,000 (One Billion) = One in a Million! Is "One in a Million" rare, paddoboy?

By current estimates, there are about 100,000,000,000 (One Hundred Billion) stars in the Milky Way Galaxy.

So..., One Hundred Billion stars over 8 to 10 Billion years - 1,000,000 would be relatively "rare" - only 1,000 would be even "rarer" than "rare"!

 

[paddoboy]

Yess, paddoboy, "rare" is relative!

1,000 relative to 1,000,000,000 (One Billion) = One in a Million! Is "One in a Million" rare, paddoboy?

By current estimates, there are about 100,000,000,000 (One Hundred Billion) stars in the Milky Way Galaxy.

So..., One Hundred Billion stars over 8 to 10 Billion years - 1,000,000 would be relatively "rare" - only 1,000 would be even "rarer" than "rare"!

1000 10,000 is relative when taken with the fact that we only know of one civilisation.
Most astrophysicists would be ecstatic at those figures.

The way you waste bandwith chasing me is funny dmoe....

take it easy old son!

 

[dumbest man on earth]

1000 10,000 is relative when taken with the fact that we only know of one civilisation.

paddoboy, not sure what number you are trying to represent by "1000 10,000"!!

Most astrophysicists would be ecstatic at those figures.

paddoboy, "Most astrophysicists" did not Post the following, you did :

"
I may agree with that, but being "rare" is relative.
Intelligent Life in the Milky way may be rare...yet there still maybe a 1000 examples of it.

paddoboy, does Posting on this Forum make you "ecstatic"?

The way you waste bandwith chasing me is funny dmoe....

paddoboy, you talk of wasting "bandwith" - how much bandwidth is wasted by your constantly parroting and repeating and Posting of the same inane, puerile, confused and oft misspelled tripe, ad nauseam?

take it easy old son!

???!!!

 

[paddoboy]

paddoboy, not sure what number you are trying to represent by "1000 10,000"!!

I did forget about your lack of understanding, that lack of understanding is as others have noted.....

1,000, 10,000 is that better??

paddoboy, "Most astrophysicists" did not Post the following, you did :

Most physicist and laymen alike would understand that "rare" was relative.......so you are forgiven



The rest of your post...Ho bloody hum...... :yawn:

 

[wellwisher]

Not true. We are attempting to apply the scientific method, to our postulations. Faith, it's such a strong word... science doesn't work on faith. Instead, we need hard data... thankfully, we have tones of data, confirming there are well over 500 planets now detected with earth-like properties.

That only proves that there are earth like planets. Extrapolation to life requires a leap of faith since we have no hard life data. As an analogy, miracles, as defined by the church, will be analogous to the existence the 500 earth like planets. These miracles events were tangible events, that even the layman could see, with the church sifting through tens of thousands of such claims before accepting a few. These god-like activities, prove the existence of God, at par with the earth like planets, seen only by expert analysis of data, proving the existence of life. There is a confusion between proving one step in a long logical analysis and thinking that proves the conclusion. The proof of the conclusion is based on faith at this point in time.

The question still remains, how did life form on earth, since all test of consensus theories, don't produce life in the lab? There is large gap between step one (earth like planets) and step two (life) that requires a leap of faith, to hurdle the large gap. Say we use the current biology assumptions of random events, based on casino math, and we find some earth-like planets, don't the odds still remain extremely low. For these 500 planets to carry weight you can't use a random formation of life scenario, or else all you don't change the odds all that much. It is like saying this franchise based corner store sold a winning lottery ticket, so if we find other similar franchise stores, they will also sell winning tickets. Odds don't blend well with logic.

My approach has always been to make the formation of life, more logical, so the odds come way down, especially for earth like planets. The premises of life formation scenarios, have to change to narrow the gap that we need faith to leap over. I proposed oil-water, or the natural potential between organic and water, leading to phase separation, in the light of energy and entropy. These are laws of science that are the same everywhere in the universe and not subject to lottery math. Lottery tickets are secondary. Now the 500 planets carry more weight.

 

[origin]

You mentioned water and entropy as expected but you forgot to mention how liberals and barefoot/pregnant women fit into this.

 

[origin]

Yess, paddoboy, "rare" is relative!

1,000 relative to 1,000,000,000 (One Billion) = One in a Million! Is "One in a Million" rare, paddoboy?

By current estimates, there are about 100,000,000,000 (One Hundred Billion) stars in the Milky Way Galaxy.

So..., One Hundred Billion stars over 8 to 10 Billion years - 1,000,000 would be relatively "rare" - only 1,000 would be even "rarer" than "rare"!

It really does seem like you are stalking paddoboy.

 

[Russ_Watters]

Though this was an interesting paper. Statistically-speaking, we should be surrounded by other civilizations.

The article says nothing whatsoever about "civilizations".

 

[paddoboy]

It really does seem like you are stalking paddoboy.

I really believe the poor schmuck has far bigger problems then me!
But I cannot say too much more otherwise I'll promote another incoherent emotional outburst.

 

[dumbest man on earth]

It really does seem like you are stalking paddoboy.

Noted. Just remember - things are not always what they seem!

Since you are offering observations - what does it seem to you that paddoboy does on this Forum?

 

[dumbest man on earth]

I did forget about your lack of understanding, that lack of understanding is as others have noted.....

Ad Hominem much?

1,000, 10,000 is that better??

???!!! - what number does "1,000, 10,000" represent?

Most physicist and laymen alike would understand that "rare" was relative.......so you are forgiven

"forgiven" for what?

The rest of your post...Ho bloody hum...... :yawn:

???!!!

 

[joepistole]

Life elsewhere in the universe is based on faith, instead of the scientific method. I am not saying life elsewhere in the universe is not logical and very reasonable. Rather, faith is defined as the belief in things not seen, while the scientific method is based on experimental evidence that is reproducible. According to the current circumstances, faith is a better description.

The most important ingredient of life is water, which is the second most abundant molecule in the universe, behind only hydrogen or H2. In terms of atoms, the top four are hydrogen, helium, oxygen and carbon, in that order. Three of the most abundant atoms within life; O,C,H, are in the top four. Because hydrogen and oxygen are numbers 1 and 3, this is why water or H2O is so common. Nitrogen is also important to life and is in the top seven.

The fundamental process for forming life is connected to mixing water and oil, which you can get from the top four atoms. Water and oil do not mix into solutions, but will phase separate into two layers. This creates a problem with respect to energy and entropy. The phase separation lowers energy, but also lowers entropy. Since the entropy of the universe has to increase, while energy has to continue to lower, chemical changes will need to appear that will allow the water and oil foundation to mix better. This occurs, in part, via a merger of organics with water via hydrogen bonding. This allows for lowering of energy and an increase of entropy. Although this may occur via trial and error, it always had a goal connected to the second law. If you look at anything in the cell, including membrane organics there are concessions to the water via added polar groups.

An interesting tidbit, is the DNA is one of the most hydrated molecules in the cell (contains the most fixed water), with the most common version of the DNA in life, beta-DNA, the most hydrated version of the DNA. The needed merger between water and organics, to optimize energy and entropy, or hydrogen bonding and bound water via hydrogen bonding, reaches a milestone within DNA. The DNA is a pinnacle goal, with respect to the needs of energy and entropy.

There is a difference between speculation and faith. Faith is not speculation and speculation is not faith. What people are doing here is speculating - one of those damn minor details again.

 

[paddoboy]

Ad Hominem much?

No more than what you throw around...albeit in a far more sanctimonious manner.

???!!! - what number does "1,000, 10,000" represent?

In relation to the original post it represents 1,000, or 10,000 or even 100,000...couple that with rare and relative and you should get it.

"forgiven" for what?

For not realizing that "rare" and its application, can be relative.

???!!!

:yawn:

 

[paddoboy]

There is a difference between speculation and faith. Faith is not speculation and speculation is not faith. What people are doing here is speculating - one of those damn minor details again.

Tell me about it!