"Light is frame-dependent in PF, but constant in SR"

James, just out of curiosity, what exactly is an administrator? Do you own this site or do you manage it for someone?
 
An administrator is the same as a moderator, but with a bit more power to alter the way the forum works. A moderator can edit and delete posts, hand out infractions, ban users etc. An administrator can also add and delete subforums, modify user posting permissions, mass-delete posts, turn various options on and off for users and other things.

I don't own sciforums. sciforums is owned by a company. I'm a volunteer, just like all of the other moderators here. The owners can be contacted through Plazma Inferno!
 
Motor Daddy said:
There is no difference in feel, because force is force. The difference is that the velocity is measured in the absolute frame. So if you throw the ball, you are going to have to throw the ball in such a fashion that you threw the ball at the speed of light. We are not talking about measuring the distance the ball traveled in the ship, we are measuring the distance the ball travels in SPACE per interval of time.
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OK you seem to be getting a bit vague here. Let me ask you a question, MD: if you were presented with a scenario which suggested that your worldview was incorrect would you accept it? Meaning, (under that circumstance) are you mature enough to admit that your worldview needs tweaking? I'm not asking that you admit this, I'm asking if you think you are flexible enough to admit this if you were presented with proper evidence.
 
AlphaNumeric said:
I read a quote from Bertrand Russell today which made me think of such people, particularly Farsight. "One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important". Anecdotally there definitely seems to be a heavy skewing towards middle aged men in the "I've got true understanding!" demographic. Some men buy a fast car, some men get a divorce and then marry a woman 30 years their junior and some mean have an existential crisis so decide to 'revolutionise' science to give their life meaning.
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Be careful about judging too harshly, AN. You'll be 40 one day as well, searching for meaning in life. It hits you hard and fast. :)
 
RJBeery said:
It hits you hard and fast. :)
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It certainly does. It's like needing reading glasses in that respect. I never wore glasses as a kid. At the age of 40 I suddenly couldn't get enough light to read small print. After a very short time I couldn't take it anymore and went to see an eye doctor. The first thing she asked me is how old I am. I said 40. She said you're on schedule. I laughed. She explained that it comes on fast and furious at the age of 40. Not all people, but most.

AN, which category do you predict that you will land in? Fast car, fast women, or fast light?? :)
 
RJBeery said:
OK you seem to be getting a bit vague here. Let me ask you a question, MD: if you were presented with a scenario which suggested that your worldview was incorrect would you accept it? Meaning, (under that circumstance) are you mature enough to admit that your worldview needs tweaking? I'm not asking that you admit this, I'm asking if you think you are flexible enough to admit this if you were presented with proper evidence.
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RJ, I'm not getting vague, you are avoiding the issue. The wheel game, are you quitting?
 
Motor Daddy said:
RJ, I'm not getting vague, you are avoiding the issue. The wheel game, are you quitting?
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Yes, I'm quitting the wheel game. If I'm moving at an absolute velocity of 299,000,000 m/s in your world would I be able to throw a baseball at 1,000,000 m/s (from my perspective) in the same direction or not?
 
RJBeery said:
Yes, I'm quitting the wheel game.
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Well the wheel game was going to teach you a whole bunch of stuff and it was a easily understood lesson. Why would you want to quit that game?



RJBeery said:
If I'm moving at an absolute velocity of 299,000,000 m/s in your world would I be able to throw a baseball at 1,000,000 m/s (from my perspective) in the same direction or not?
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You're confused, RJ. You are traveling along at a constant velocity 299,000,000 m/s. At t=0 you throw a ball from the coordinate (0,0,0). The ball and you now have independent velocities, as you forced the ball to accelerate (you increased or decreased the velocity of the ball, which was 299,000,000 m/s before you did that.) So, like I said, if you want the ball to be traveling at the speed of light you will have to throw it at the speed of light. Are you up to the task?
 
Motor Daddy said:
Are you up to the task?
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I DON'T KNOW! This is your world we're playing in; that's why I'm asking the question. Here I am, traveling at 299,000,000 m/s, can I throw a baseball at 1,000,000 m/s in the same direction of my absolute velocity or not? Can I throw it at 792,457 m/s?
 
RJBeery said:
I DON'T KNOW! This is your world we're playing in; that's why I'm asking the question. Here I am, traveling at 299,000,000 m/s, can I throw a baseball at 1,000,000 m/s in the same direction of my absolute velocity or not? Can I throw it at 792,457 m/s?
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At t=0 you throw the ball. How far is the ball from you one second later?
 
RJBeery said:
It had better be 1,000,000 meters away, from my perspective.
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So at t=0 you threw the ball from coordinate (0,0,0), and at t=1 the ball is at (1,0,0), so you threw the ball at the speed of light. You are 1,000,000 meters shy of that point at t=1, so the ball is 1,000,000 meters ahead of you. You did not throw the ball at 1,000,000 m/s, you threw the ball at the speed of light!
 
Motor Daddy said:
So at t=0 you threw the ball from coordinate (0,0,0), and at t=1 the ball is at (1,0,0), so you threw the ball at the speed of light. You are 1,000,000 meters shy of that point at t=1, so the ball is 1,000,000 meters ahead of you. You did not throw the ball at 1,000,000 m/s, you threw the ball at the speed of light!
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Fine, I threw the ball at the absolute speed of light. Now, do you believe I would be able to do this in your world?
 
Motor Daddy said:
I am the measuring stick and clock, and I am capable of measuring any motion. Go as fast as you can!
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Is that an answer? Don't speak in riddles and don't try to be cute. Can I throw the baseball at 1,000,000 m/s from my perspective?
 
RJBeery said:
Is that an answer? Don't speak in riddles and don't try to be cute. Can I throw the baseball at 1,000,000 m/s from my perspective?
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I seriously doubt it, but give it your best shot. First you have to be traveling at 299,000,000 m/s before you could even attempt it. How will you be traveling, Taxi? Rocket? 747?

Edit: I'll even cut you some slack, RJ. I'm gonna let you off the hook to the tune of 299,000,000 m/s initial velocity. No need to travel, because I know that makes it tougher for you to accomplish your goal.

So, having said that, your job is simply to find one of those baseball speed measuring deals you usually see at the state fair. Just go to one of those and pay a few bucks (way cheaper than having to construct a vehicle that will travel 299,000,000 m/s) and see if you can throw the ball 1,000,000 m/s as measured compared to the earth.

My prediction (and a very safe one at that) is that you will not be able to throw the ball more than 89 m/s (200 MPH).

However...If in fact you do throw that ball more than 89 m/s, then I suggest you go straight to the Major's and become a major league baseball pitcher, as that would be a record!!
 
Motor Daddy said:
I seriously doubt it, but give it your best shot. First you have to be traveling at 299,000,000 m/s before you could even attempt it. How will you be traveling, Taxi? Rocket? 747?

Edit: I'll even cut you some slack, RJ. I'm gonna let you off the hook to the tune of 299,000,000 m/s initial velocity. No need to travel, because I know that makes it tougher for you to accomplish your goal.

So, having said that, your job is simply to find one of those baseball speed measuring deals you usually see at the state fair. Just go to one of those and pay a few bucks (way cheaper than having to construct a vehicle that will travel 299,000,000 m/s) and see if you can throw the ball 1,000,000 m/s as measured compared to the earth.

My prediction (and a very safe one at that) is that you will not be able to throw the ball more than 89 m/s (200 MPH).

However...If in fact you do throw that ball more than 89 m/s, then I suggest you go straight to the Major's and become a major league baseball pitcher, as that would be a record!!
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You're basing your argument on the practicality of a thought experiment. Theoretically, with enough fuel, a rocket can move at 299,000,000 m/s eventually under continuous acceleration. (Care to debate this?) At that point, the rocket kills its engines and the pilot, who used to play for the majors and has maintained his form, throws a baseball at 1,000,000 m/s from his perspective. I'm claiming that in your world this is possible but, as I said, it's your world so you tell me what would happen. The baseball would feel "extra heavy"?
 
RJBeery said:
You're basing your argument on the practicality of a thought experiment. Theoretically, with enough fuel, a rocket can move at 299,000,000 m/s eventually under continuous acceleration. (Care to debate this?) At that point, the rocket kills its engines and the pilot, who used to play for the majors and has maintained his form, throws a baseball at 1,000,000 m/s from his perspective. I'm claiming that in your world this is possible but, as I said, it's your world so you tell me what would happen. The baseball would feel "extra heavy"?
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See, I told you that you should have continued to play the wheel game. Now you have made an error that you would not have made if you would have learned those VITAL lessons!
 
Motor Daddy said:
See, I told you that you should have continued to play the wheel game. Now you have made an error that you would not have made if you would have learned those VITAL lessons!
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In order for the wheel game to be analogous to this scenario we would either have to be spinning with the shaft, OR the pilot would have to have an absolute velocity of zero. In either case I would agree that increasing the RPMs and throwing the baseball at the speed of light should be quite difficult.
 
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