Logical proof of a deistic "God"

martillo said:
Is not baseless. I gave the reason of why I consider the existence of a "Universal Supra-computer" and is that is strictly necessary to implement the concepts of particles' "action at a distance" or "fields" if you prefer.
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Yes, that is a baseless assumption, which led you to your baseless conclusion that there is proof of a God.

If someone has faith in a God that is fine and I cannot prove that you would be wrong in your belief. But the 'logic' you put out was clearly flawed and in no way what so ever does it prove there is a God.
 
martillo said:
Yes, I think that the physics laws and parameters values produce some kind of tendency in molecular arrangments which if other environmental conditions are the right ones life can sourge "spontaneously" in a progressively manner begining with basic constructions like some aminoacids which would in some unknown way could have the tendency to combine to some elementary forms of life not yet known or recognized. I mean, If I'm not wrong the most basic recognized form of life would be some prokaryotes cells but I believe other more elementary forms should exist to complete a natural and progressive development of life. Of course evolution takes place in all forms of organisms but I think that if some kind of tendencies could be present in progressive molecular arrangments some types of lifeforms could be predetermined at least in some characteristics which would lead to the different species of beings. The deistic "God" of the Universe design would be in the adjustment of the basic physics' parameters values to produce the kind of projected living organisms and kind of life.
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Your not helping your cause with the above rambling

I would like to keep addressing the issue and refrain from commenting on personal traits

But it is a strain

Really (in a nice way) find out a lot more about a lot more

I will keep track of the thread but at the moment I will pull out before I over extend my 3 PING limit

Best of luck with finding what ever it is your looking for

:)
 
martillo said:
Is not baseless. I gave the reason of why I consider the existence of a "Universal Supra-computer" and is that is strictly necessary to implement the concepts of particles' "action at a distance" or "fields" if you prefer. I mean by "implement" for them to actually work in reality.
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If we assume that
- particles obey the motions of the waving tail of a cosmic unicorn
then it follows that
- a cosmic unicorn exists.

If we assume that
- particles are pixie dist
then it follows that
- Tinkerbell is God.

These are equally valid as the OP.
 
DaveC426913 said:
If we assume that
- particles obey the motions of the waving tail of a cosmic unicorn
then it follows that
- a cosmic unicorn exists.

If we assume that
- particles are pixie dist
then it follows that
- Tinkerbell is God.

These are equally valid as the OP.
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No. Actually is about indirect evidence but not so silly as you try to show it.
 
martillo said:
No. Actually is about indirect evidence but not so silly as you try to show it.
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It seems that your argument boils down to: There is order to the universe therefore there must be a God.

The problem is that there is no evidence that there needs to be a God, or guiding hand, for this order.
 
I could take all of opinions of people here and I have a good understanding of your disagreement. I take it as the very probable response of the scientific community. Actually I didn't expect something different. Just curious about the criticism I could obtain. Thanks for that.
 
martillo said:
The Electric and Magnetic Forces are undoubtedly “action at a distance” forces what cannot be denied.
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In quantum field theory, electric and magnetic forces are carried by "messenger particles" (photons), and are not action at a distance.

This means that a “Physics System” would exist “running” the Physics Laws on the elementary particles. This leaves us to think in a mathematically based Universe that would “run” in some kind of “Universal Supra-computer”. There's no other way possible!
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Why can't this "universe supra-computer" that runs the physical laws of the universe just be ... the universe?

What makes you think something extra is required? Why do you think there needs to be an "outside" input?

The proof of the existence of a deistic "God" follows quite obviously:
Some kind of "Superior Intelligence" must have 1) built the “Universal Supra-computer” machine...
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This is called the argument from design.

The same argument was assumed to hold in order to account for the diversity and complexity of life on Earth - right up until Charles Darwin came along with the idea of evolution by natural selection.

Just because something looks designed, it doesn't mean that thing has a Creator behind it.

2) programmed the Physics Laws in the machine and 3) setted the numerical values of the parameters of the Physics Laws
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What if there are many universes, all with different values of the physical constants, and we just happen to be in one that has the particular values we observe?
 
martillo said:
No. Actually is about indirect evidence but not so silly as you try to show it.
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Yes, my examples are more fanciful than yours but note the salient similarities:

1] Pixie dust, cosmic unicorns and computers are all human inventions. It would be an astonishing coincidence if the universe were made of something that was not invented for another 14 billion years.

2] They are all truisms. If we assume the thing that makes them true is true, then the thing must needs be true.

Finally, I challenge your invocation of the term 'evidence'. I think what you have is an analogy.
The Earth is like a spinning top. That is not evidence that the Earth is a spinning top.
 
martillo said:
The Electric and Magnetic Forces are undoubtedly “action at a distance” forces what cannot be denied. This means that a “Physics System” would exist “running” the Physics Laws on the elementary particles. This leaves us to think in a mathematically based Universe that would “run” in some kind of “Universal Supra-computer”. There's no other way possible!

The proof of the existence of a deistic "God" follows quite obviously:
Some kind of "Superior Intelligence" must have 1) built the “Universal Supra-computer” machine, 2) programmed the Physics Laws in the machine and 3) setted the numerical values of the parameters of the Physics Laws.
That "Superior Intelligence" can be called the "God" of the Universe in its deistic conceptualization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism).
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Physical laws don't run the universe. They are man-made descriptions of physical behavior. Your argument is a classic argument from ignorance, a logical fallacy. You can't conceive how it works, so you invent a universal supra-computer to explain it, while failing to explain the existence of a universal supra-computer.
 
spidergoat said:
Your argument is a classic argument from ignorance, a logical fallacy. You can't conceive how it works, so you invent a universal supra-computer to explain it
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I did not interpret the OP as failing to understand.

I interpreted as seeing a system that has entities (particles) and rules of behavior (forces) and making the assumption that these things cannot act/interact without doing so within a framework to contain it and an engine to drive it.

I guess that's the same thing as what you said.

(Then again, I didn't make the leap right away that the OP is probably an ID proponent looking for fuel.)
 
martillo said:
The Electric and Magnetic Forces are undoubtedly “action at a distance” forces what cannot be denied. This means that a “Physics System” would exist “running” the Physics Laws on the elementary particles. This leaves us to think in a mathematically based Universe that would “run” in some kind of “Universal Supra-computer”. There's no other way possible!

The proof of the existence of a deistic "God" follows quite obviously:
Some kind of "Superior Intelligence" must have 1) built the “Universal Supra-computer” machine, 2) programmed the Physics Laws in the machine and 3) setted the numerical values of the parameters of the Physics Laws.
That "Superior Intelligence" can be called the "God" of the Universe in its deistic conceptualization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism).
Click to expand...

This being is biological .
 
DaveC426913 wrote:
I did not interpret the OP as failing to understand.

I interpreted as seeing a system that has entities (particles) and rules of behavior (forces) and making the assumption that these things cannot act/interact without doing so within a framework to contain it and an engine to drive it.
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Right.
But it doesn't worth discuss anymore.
 
*Ahem*

unicorn-background-design_1324-78.jpg



https://www.google.ca/search?site=&...790...0i131k1j0i131i46k1j46i131k1.tfgbFSHNOzk
 
Ironies, disdains, derisions... with some kind of humor of course.
My more than ten years in forums let me know they sourge from silly people with lack of rationalism capabilities (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalism). But very good sustaining what have learned whatever would be.
Just following the same "humor" I would say they are good parrots...
Parrot.jpg
I can't forget the always ending emoticon of course::)
 
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