Magen David Ambulance Dispatch: “Is it an Arab or a Jew?”

[S.A.M.]

So then I take it you feel sound trying to make genetic arguments about why Jews have no right to be in Israel, because you believe most of their documented history in the region is a myth.

Only when it comes to Europeans who want to dispossess the natives because of mythology

 

[pjdude1219]

Must I continually dig up that picture of Arafat's Grand Mufti uncle, the recognized leader of the Palestinians at the time, sitting down alongside Hitler and inspecting the Muslim SS troops he helped raise?

you can but its meaning less. I fail to see how someone who WASN'T a palestinian leader and a british appointee means shit.

I hear filthy racist comments from many Arabs directly, and those aren't even Arabs living in the ME, so you want to tell me there's not a strong inclination in the Muslim world to finish Hitler's work, and never was even in 1948?

Yes because contrary to what you take that what the facts show.

And what about the Palestinians teaching their kids that Jews are the descendants of monkeys and pigs? Last I heard, that still hasn't changed.

I have yet to see credible evidence of that.

The original UN proposal for partitioning the land positioned the Jews squarely in a region in which they comprised the majority.

after gerrymandering the shit out of it. most rational people don't support gerrymandering. Secondly the Un had zero jursidictiopn to partinian it. I mean really do you really want the focus to be on how regards to the jews the UN broke with its normal policies regarding parttining formor colonies and moving people into formor colonies in the favor of them as the focus of your argument?

As I said before, their re-immigration to the region was as legal as anyone else's at the time, because as long as they weren't displacing Palestinians living on and using the land, it was completely up to Britain to decide.

So your saying it was illegal because that exactly what they were doing.

If you feel something's wrong with that arrangement, feel free to offer up land of equal value in exchange.

It a great fuzzy pro Israel idea that's completely bullshit. ITs a feel good solution that ignores anything resembling a factual argument based on law. I'm sorry but when is letting stolen propertry remain with theifs a viable solution any where?

 

[Trippy]

that is your right and your choice but forgive me if i rely on my own expierences

In this thread, for example, I have found S.A.M to be highly biased, dishonest, and disingenous (and before either of you protest at my calling S.A.M dishonest, Two examples - S.A.M's assertion that the question was racially motivated was a fabrication (something she asserted as a fact without knowing for certain that it was) S.A.M's assertion that the mother was speaking from experience was a fabrication, S.A.M repeatedly making the same assertion even though she was given a correct answer on several occasions by different people was disingenous, S.A.M's assertion that I needed to provide some proof that the question wasn't asked everywhere every time when I asked her to prove that it was was fallicous, and her latest assertion - that the Ashkenazi are obviously european is also a fabrication).

And as for your cheerleading:

I have yet to see credible evidence of that.

Post #67
Although no doubt you will attempt to argue that it isn't credible.

If S.A.M holds herself to represent Muslims, and to advocate for palestinian muslims on this board, then my sincere opinion is she's doing a piss-poor job, and may well have done more damage to the opinion of the palestinian plight then good.

And before you go yapping at my heals about being pro israeli yadda yadda yadda...

I (apparently) live in the worlds most secular country.
We have more people here that Identify themselves as muslim then we do people identifying themselves as Jewish.
We have more people identifying their religion as Jedi then we have Muslims and Jews put together (In fact Buddists and Hindu's outnumber Muslims or Jews).
If I recall correctly, Al Jazeera is broadcast nationaly (I forget if it's free to air, or pay per view).
Here, it's actually possible to protest the participation of an israelie athelete in a sports event to bring attention to the palestinian plight, without it becoming about racial hatred and anti-jew sentiment.

You don't get to call me Pro anyfuckingthing because I feel vaguely compelled to bring some apparently needed balance to a thread.

 

[S.A.M.]

Fabrication? Its a racist country. Thats not a secret

As Justice Goldstone said last night at Yale:

When someone said he should call it apartheid, he said that was an emotionally-laden term, so he avoided it–but in fact they did not have separate roadways in South Africa, as Israel does in the West Bank.

They impose their mythology on the natives, slap them around, bulldoze their homes and replace them with foreign Jews

You don't get anymore racist than that.

If you are telling me that its dishonest to believe that in a racist country, with racist laws and racist actions against non Jews, the EMT's question about whether a child is an Arab or a Jew [rather than a Palestinian or an Israeli as you insist on portraying] is racist, then well, I have to say, you're clueless.

 

[pjdude1219]

In this thread, for example, I have found S.A.M to be highly biased, dishonest, and disingenous (and before either of you protest at my calling S.A.M dishonest, Two examples - S.A.M's assertion that the question was racially motivated was a fabrication (something she asserted as a fact without knowing for certain that it was) S.A.M's assertion that the mother was speaking from experience was a fabrication, S.A.M repeatedly making the same assertion even though she was given a correct answer on several occasions by different people was disingenous, S.A.M's assertion that I needed to provide some proof that the question wasn't asked everywhere every time when I asked her to prove that it was was fallicous, and her latest assertion - that the Ashkenazi are obviously european is also a fabrication).

SAM is disingenious she promates violence first rather than a p[olitical legal solution.

And as for your cheerleading:

Post #67
Although no doubt you will attempt to argue that it isn't credible.

I suggest you reread them. not a single instance of calling jews monkeys or pigs in their.

If S.A.M holds herself to represent Muslims, and to advocate for palestinian muslims on this board, then my sincere opinion is she's doing a piss-poor job, and may well have done more damage to the opinion of the palestinian plight then good.

SAM's problem is the sam as most of the jewish ISraeli supporters here. emotion.

And before you go yapping at my heals about being pro israeli yadda yadda yadda...

I (apparently) live in the worlds most secular country.
We have more people here that Identify themselves as muslim then we do people identifying themselves as Jewish.
We have more people identifying their religion as Jedi then we have Muslims and Jews put together (In fact Buddists and Hindu's outnumber Muslims or Jews).
If I recall correctly, Al Jazeera is broadcast nationaly (I forget if it's free to air, or pay per view).
Here, it's actually possible to protest the participation of an israelie athelete in a sports event to bring attention to the palestinian plight, without it becoming about racial hatred and anti-jew sentiment.

? so where are you because i can't tell from that?

You don't get to call me Pro anyfuckingthing because I feel vaguely compelled to bring some apparently needed balance to a thread.

without this outburst I would have believed but given your need to say this it really calls that into question. not once have i made a judgement on where you stand despite your echoing Israeli propaganda trying to unlink the palestinians with the land.

 

[S.A.M.]

He's a self hating Maori

 

[Trippy]

Fabrication? Its a racist country. Thats not a secret

Show me again where I have argued that Racism doesn't exist in Israel or Palestine?

Oh wait, you can't, because that's not something I've argued in this thread. In fact, I've EXPLICITLY argued the opposite.

If you are telling me that its dishonest to believe that in a racist country, with racist laws and racist actions against non Jews, the EMT's question about whether a child is an Arab or a Jew [rather than a Palestinian or an Israeli as you insist on portraying] is racist, then well, I have to say, you're clueless.

Making an assertion as a fact, when you don't know that it is one is a fabrication. As for the rest of your nonsense?
I haven't stated that the question was "Is the child a palestinian or an israelie", so I haven't portrayed it as anything (could be considered another fabrication on your part), what I have done is intimate/imply that that may have been the intention behind the question, to determine which ambulance service to dispatch as per the accord reached between the PRCS and the MDA in 2000(?), in order to protect the ambulances and the paramedics that were getting stoned and shot at by BOTH SIDES.

It's not dishonest to believe that it's racist, that is entirely your choice, what constitutes the fabrication is your presentation of it as an inalienable undeniable fact.

 

[S.A.M.]

order to protect the ambulances and the paramedics that were getting stoned and shot at by BOTH SIDES.

Can you show me where this has happened in Jerusalem? Because if it was a safety concern, the ambulance would not have come at all.

 

[Trippy]

? so where are you because i can't tell from that?

Nonyaland (None of ya damn buisiness).

without this outburst I would have believed but given your need to say this it really calls that into question.

Ho hum.
Not that it couldn't possibly have been brought about out of cynical expectation, and based on your arguments/comments directed at other posters in this thread?

No.

Not in the slightest.

It's not like people never attempt to pre-empt an argument.

Never been done in the history of mankind.
(Sarcams is just one of the services I offer).

 

[Trippy]

Can you show me where this has happened in Jerusalem? Because if it was a safety concern, the ambulance would not have come at all.

Or, alternatively, they send both ambulances, so that the 'wrong' one can skedaddle discretely and avoid being (potentially) attacked.

 

[S.A.M.]

Or, alternatively, they send both ambulances, so that the 'wrong' one can skedaddle discretely and avoid being (potentially) attacked.

In jerusalem, there is no need to skedaddle. Its 100% under Israeli control.

Meanwhile note how you are associating "Is it an Arab or a Jew" " Aravim? Yahudi?" with safety, stone throwing, medical considerations, none of which are remotely referenced in the question.

Did the ambulance ask if its a riot? If there is shooting? If there are casualties? No he asked, IS IT AN ARAB OR A JEW?

 

[pjdude1219]

Nonyaland (None of ya damn buisiness).

So you want it to be part of your argument but I can't know it?

Ho hum.
Not that it couldn't possibly have been brought about out of cynical expectation, and based on your arguments/comments directed at other posters in this thread?

No.

Not in the slightest.

well considering you unlike those you mention have yet to say the way to peace is to strip the palestinians of their legal rights(which is my biggest problem with Israel's supporters) why would I?

It's not like people never attempt to pre-empt an argument.

Never been done in the history of mankind.
(Sarcams is just one of the services I offer).

Maybe you could throw honesty in there as well or is that extra

 

[Trippy]

Can you show me where this has happened in Jerusalem? Because if it was a safety concern, the ambulance would not have come at all.

Don't assume I'm vouching for the accuracy of these sources:

Israeli ambulances need police escort

Or are you suggesting that there's no racial tension in occupied Jerusalem?

Press Briefing from 2000

Yesterday, ambulances were attacked in Jerusalem when they tried to give aid to injured people. This is something we think should be stopped, and I hope all the violence will stop. The decision yesterday of the Prime Minister with the Chief-of-Staff - this is another step to reduce the violence. Hopefully, those gestures will be understood on the other side, in order to reduce the violence.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1128734.html

Fire and Magen David ambulance crews report there have been numerous incidents in which their crews on the way to emergencies have been attacked by Palestinians.

It's not a new thing either
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3411168,00.html

Not that the Palestinians are the only guilty party when it comes to attacking or delaying ambulances:
http://www.pmrs.ps/last/etemplate.php?id=116

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...agename=IslamOnline-Mobile/WapLayout&zone=HSE

http://www.palestinercs.org/Reports/ViolationsreportApr-Jun09.doc

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/15034701/Chapter-two

http://www.takethestreets.org/MANY/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=12&theme=Printer

MDA EMS with guns? How about PRCS EMS with bombs?
http://image.thelancet.com/extras/02art8008web.pdf

So yes.
It does happen.
It does happen in Jerusalem.
And It IS perpetrated by both sides.

 

[S.A.M.]

If its perpetrated by BOTH sides, what is the point of asking Aravim or Yahudi?

From your first link:

Residents of Ras Hamis, an East Jerusalem neighborhood east of the separation fence, say two children died in a house fire two weeks ago while a fire crew had to wait 200 meters away at a checkpoint for lack of Border Police or army escort.

Residents say the fire crew had to wait 40 minutes while neighborhood people tried to get the injured out. A space heater reportedly ignited the blaze. The fire department acknowledges that security policy hinders the department's work, but said the delay was only a few minutes, and the fire crew was at the scene of the house 10 minutes after the department received the call. One firefighter said the residents waited half an hour after the blaze began before alerting the authorities.

I guess thats why. To determine if they should wait a while or come at once.

Clearly the residents don't have much faith in the system

 

[Trippy]

In jerusalem, there is no need to skedaddle. Its 100% under Israeli control.

Meanwhile note how you are associating "Is it an Arab or a Jew" " Aravim? Yahudi?" with safety, stone throwing, medical considerations, none of which are remotely referenced in the question.

Did the ambulance ask if its a riot? If there is shooting? If there are casualties? No he asked, IS IT AN ARAB OR A JEW?

See the links I just provided where MDA ambulances are not allowed to enter Arab Neighbourhoods in occupied Jerusalem without a police escort BECAUSE OF THE DAM ATTACKS.

 

[Trippy]

If its perpetrated by BOTH sides, what is the point of asking Aravim or Yahudi?

From your first link:



I guess thats why. To determine if they should wait a while or come at once.

Clearly the residents don't have much faith in the system

See, now you're being dishonest again, because the first link, if I recall correctly also suggests that the delay was related to the requirement for a police escort.

 

[S.A.M.]

Since all ambulances are provided a security escort, one might benefit more from asking location than ethnicity of the child.

If a Jewish child is injured in East Jerusalem, what are the security arrangements vs if an Arab child is injured?

 

[Trippy]

So you want it to be part of your argument but I can't know it?

You already know what you need to know about it.

Maybe you could throw honesty in there as well or is that extra

Show me being dishonest - or rather, show me being deliberately dishonest.

 

[Trippy]

Since all ambulances are provided a security escort, one might benefit more from asking location than ethnicity of the child.

But if there are no attacks against PRCS or MDA ambulances, why do the need police escorts all the time?

If a Jewish child is injured in East Jerusalem, what are the security arrangements vs if an Arab child is injured?

No idea, although I hypothesize that a start would be dispatching an MDA ambulance for the Jewish kid, or a PRCS ambulance for an Arab kid, or both if it's unclear/unknown.

 

[Trippy]

He's a self hating Maori

Another fabrication. :3

I've already explained this to you.

I don't consider myself to be maori any more than I consider myself to be Irish, Scottish, French, or Russian (which would all, allegedly, be equally valid).

Addendum:
Although in the general name of good will, I'm willing to give you the benefit of Jocose.