Maybe space isn't expanding at all!

paddoboy said:
The JWST will further enforce and support the BB/Inflationary model and GR.
In the meantime, the observational evidence we have for the BB/Inflationary expanding model still reigns supreme.
But sure, if the JWST finds as you speculate, then further research into the model will be needed and will take place.
My point forrest, is any new findings will be from within the mainstream circles as has always been the case.
Click to expand...

The James Webb will either prove or disprove the BB model IMO. It will be either one way or the other after maybe 6-7 years of successful operation. As I'm sure you know, mainstream models have been overthrown from time to time. IMO many of the modern theories in physics are fundamentally wrong. That does not necessarily discount the value of the related mathematics that has often been derived from a long history of observation.
 
Last edited:
forrest noble said:
The James Webb will either prove or disprove the BB model IMO. It will be either one way or the other after maybe 6-7 years of successful operation. As I'm sure you know, mainstream models have been overthrown from time to time. IMO many of the modern theories in physics are fundamentally wrong. That does not necessarily discount the value of the related mathematics that has often been derived from a long history of observation.
Click to expand...



Sure mainstream models have been overthrown and modified from time to time, and all by mainstream physicists/cosmologists....
Not by anyone from left field for many obvious reasons [rightly or wrongly] and which I have given many times.
And sure the BB/Inflationary model will need some tinkering, but to sit there and deny the Universe/spacetime is expanding, claim that the CMBR could be a result of starlight, despite the impossible consistency of it everywhere, which can only readily be explained by the BB/GR model, and suggest "shrinking rulers" as reflecting the same thing, despite the strong, weak forces, EMF, Pauli's exclusion principle, EDP, and NDP, is taking scientific hypothesis/speculation from the sublime to the ridiculous.

In effect what you are saying is that your model and ToE, is going to overthrow all of standard accepted cosmology, just as our other ToE proponents have said.
I do give you some time, as obviously you don't seem to be as arrogant, and suffer the delusions of grandeur that those others so readily do.

But really forest, the fact of the matter is, that if you did have anything, you would submit it for peer review to the appropriate channels, and those appropriate channels would take it on face value and according to the evidence you supplied.
I certainly don't agree with any nonsensical predictions that the "truth"could or would be hidden, for any manufactured reasons.
You should also remember that if on the off chance you do have something that describes observations as well as the incumbent theory, the incumbent theory would still hold pride of place.
 
Last edited:
......I certainly don't agree with any nonsensical predictions that the "truth"could or would be hidden, for any manufactured reasons.
Click to expand...

I agree. It would be very unusual for any astronomer or physics practitioner to be hiding anything. Sometimes they might doubt their findings if they differ from the standard model, and not publish their results out of fear of ridicule. Most would not drop it at that and continue their inquiry. The biggest problem IMO is the misinterpretation, based upon theory, of what is being observed.

You should also remember that if on the off chance you do have something that describes observations as well as the incumbent theory, the incumbent theory would still hold pride of place.
Click to expand...

I also agree. Any proposed new theory would have to explain reality better than the incumbent theory to hope for, or receive consideration.
 
I just wonder, what kind of system expanding space is?

material can changing, because nucleus of atoms can moving "in" space which already been there! Nucleus of stoms moving relativity each other!

What about expanding space!

to consist as Space separate microdermabrasion which move in relation to each other in a background mode, and if not, then what kind of system it is expanding the space , then?

EternalLove
 
If expanding the space consists of zillions of distinct systems that move relative to each other, does not it matter when / then ? If not composed of distinct systems that move relative to each other , then what is it expanding space , then? If you let me ask?

EternalLove
 
forrest noble said:
I agree. It would be very unusual for any astronomer or physics practitioner to be hiding anything. Sometimes they might doubt their findings if they differ from the standard model, and not publish their results out of fear of ridicule. Most would not drop it at that and continue their inquiry. The biggest problem IMO is the misinterpretation, based upon theory, of what is being observed.
Click to expand...

While its logical that you agree that astronomers/cosmologists would not be hiding anything, its also just as logical, that if any of them had any solution or answers to the few existing problems, or had someone such as yourself, confront them with another model, they would look at that fairly, and without any fear or favour.
Again, any model would be judged on its merits.
You keep harping on misinterpretation.......they see redshifts of all distant galaxies, growing to larger redshifts, the further afield they look.....they see the CMBR, near perfectly constant at a predicted 2.7K......they see evidence in type 1a supernova of acceleration in that expansion....they presume an unknown force acting against gravity.
Funny, I see those interpretations as rather logical and "Occam's razor" like in explanation.
Yet they don't rest on their laurels, and the research and Investigations continue.

forrest noble said:
I also agree. Any proposed new theory would have to explain reality better than the incumbent theory to hope for, or receive consideration.
Click to expand...

For your model to gain any acceptance, I suggest it would need to explain DM and the nature of DE, and some observational evidence supporting your outcome or interpretation.
And for any new model to eventuate, I believe that its proponents "MUST" have access to the state of the art equipment here and in space.
Otherwise, you are not only behind the 8 ball, but in a dirty big bottomless pit.

One of the biggest thing the BB/Inflationary model has going for it, in my opinion, is how well it fits in and compliments SR and GR, particle physics, and even Abiogenesis and Evolution.
 
This is what famous finnish cosmology tell us! With googletranslation.
This Enqvist book, the theory of relativity poets Pages 168-169
* "The theory of relativity universe is all totality. It contains all but not outside nothing. There is no empty space, which Avarus expands to meet. Space is not your huge scene set in a box, Joa slowly increases. * The universe is not the outside. There is no interface where voisipystytää sign: "now leave the universe. welcome again! "* Space itself is changing, it has the features that depend on the time in which the universe material dictates. * Substance arched four-dimensional space-time, the geometry of which, in turn, directs the substance of motion. Einstein's cosmos there is nothing hidden., it is a purely mechanical system . * Expansion is a kind of illusory: the space characteristics of the changes occurring to us so that we can interpret the space to grow. mathematically more correct to say that the distance to the definition will change the manner provided space at each point. * It's like the space to meet any of the viscous liquid. journeyed in the summer holidays a distant galaxy, we then his head through space as we walk in the water. Etäsyyttä measure the time that the trip lasts., but if you bring a miracle of the liquid changes over the course of the thicker, the journey takes longer than before, and therefore, we conclude that the distance is increased. expands the space. "
.
"It contains all but not outside nothing."
.
For me space is eternal and infinity Place which is nothing, so space dont have to born, or expanding, or curving at all!
.
"There is no empty space, a space expanding to meet. Your huge space is not on the scene set in a box, which slowly increases. * The universe does not have an outer face than before and, therefore, we conclude that the distance is increased. that space is expanding. ""
.
For me space is eternal and infinity Place which is nothing, so space dont have to born, or expanding, or curving at all!
.
2Space itself is changing, it has the features that depend on the time in which the universe material dictates."
.
I just wonder, how and why space itself is changing?
What happening for expanding space when it expanding?
.
"Substance arched four-dimensional space-time, the geometry of which, in turn, directs the substance of motion.
.
How substance arched four-dimensional space-time?
How substance interactive with space?
.
"Einstein's cosmos there is nothing hidden., it is a purely mechanical system ."
.
What kind of mechanical system is expanding space?
.
"Expansion is a kind of illusory"
.
Hmm, so, is there expanding space or not?
.
"the space characteristics of the changes occurring to us so that we can interpret the space to grow. mathematically more correct to say that the distance to the definition will change the manner provided space at each point."

.
How that happening?
.
"It's like the space to meet any of the viscous liquid. journeyed in the summer vacation to a distant galaxy where we will have to head through space as we walk in the water. The distance measure of time, the trip takes. but if you bring a miracle liquid changes over the course of the thicker, the journey takes longer than before, and therefore, we conclude that the distance is increased. that space is expanding. ""
.
Hmm. what that mean? Is expanding space something like matter and if it is, why you say is space? For me space is eternal and infinity Place which is nothing!
It is just Place where is movement from every direction to every direction! And this one, which moving "in" space, is something real!
Space is nothing and there is something real which moving "in" space which is nothing!
EternalLove
 
Movement is key for Physics Theory of Everything

.

You should really look that video with time!

I maked that today!

Eternal Love
 
Kari Enqvist: ""It's like the space to meet any of the viscous liquid. journeyed in the summer vacation to a distant galaxy where we will have to head through space as we walk in the water. The distance measure of time, the trip takes. but if you bring a miracle liquid changes over the course of the thicker, the journey takes longer than before, and therefore, we conclude that the distance is increased. that space is expanding. ""

Yes, of course, between expanding galaxys are all a time more and more expanding light!

that does not mean that there is expanding space!

there is no expanding or curving space at all!

EternalLove
 
Last edited:
JukriS said:
there is no expanding or curving space at all!
EternalLove
Click to expand...


You can say that as many times as you like, but guess what?
It does not effect the reality of cosmology one bit, nor does it detract from the accepted evidenced based mainstream view of spacetime expansion, held by nearly all astronomers and cosmologists.

But you are in the alternative section, and as such, you are allowed to promote any fairy tale you wish, with or without your eternal love. :)
Best of luck ol fella!
 
JukriS said:
I just wonder, how and why space itself is changing?
What happening for expanding space when it expanding?.
Click to expand...


It seems you only have one reason to arrive at your opinion that space is not expanding.
You believe it doesn't expand because we do not know how or why.
You are correct, in that we do not know the how or why, but the fact remains that spacetime does exist, it does expand, it is bent/warped in the presence of mass/energy, and when that happens we get the phenomenon we call gravity.

OK, here's a few questions for you.
If you refuse to answer them, as you have done in this thread so far, it will mean that you are nothing but a crank troll....and that would be the only logical conclusion that anyone reading your nonsense could arrive at.

Do you believe the effect we call gravity exists?
OK, a simple obvious question, with a simple obvious answer...yes of course the effect we call gravity exists.
Next question: Tell me, how and why does gravity occur?

Does magnetism exist?
Again, the simple obvious answer is yes, of course it does.
Next question: What is magnetism? Why does it occur? How does it occur?

Some more questions:
What is the strong nuclear force? What is the weak nuclear force?
Where do they come from? Why do they happen?
What would happen if they did not exist?

Now JukriS, are you a crank troll? Or are you going to answer those questions?

And of course if you do answer those questions, and those answers are we don't really know the how and why, then logically it also follows that while we do not know the how and why of spacetime expanding, as long as we have evidence to show that it does, that is the logical conclusion we must arrive at.
 
paddoboy said:
It seems you only have one reason to arrive at your opinion that space is not expanding.
You believe it doesn't expand because we do not know how or why.
You are correct, in that we do not know the how or why, but the fact remains that spacetime does exist, it does expand, it is bent/warped in the presence of mass/energy, and when that happens we get the phenomenon we call gravity.

OK, here's a few questions for you.
If you refuse to answer them, as you have done in this thread so far, it will mean that you are nothing but a crank troll....and that would be the only logical conclusion that anyone reading your nonsense could arrive at.

Do you believe the effect we call gravity exists?
OK, a simple obvious question, with a simple obvious answer...yes of course the effect we call gravity exists.
Next question: Tell me, how and why does gravity occur?

Does magnetism exist?
Again, the simple obvious answer is yes, of course it does.
Next question: What is magnetism? Why does it occur? How does it occur?

Some more questions:
What is the strong nuclear force? What is the weak nuclear force?
Where do they come from? Why do they happen?
What would happen if they did not exist?

Now JukriS, are you a crank troll? Or are you going to answer those questions?

And of course if you do answer those questions, and those answers are we don't really know the how and why, then logically it also follows that while we do not know the how and why of spacetime expanding, as long as we have evidence to show that it does, that is the logical conclusion we must arrive at.
Click to expand...


We can explain everything with movement which is pushing force!

Magnetism with Onesimpleprinciple


EternalLove
 
paddoboy said:
It seems you only have one reason to arrive at your opinion that space is not expanding.
You believe it doesn't expand because we do not know how or why.
You are correct, in that we do not know the how or why, but the fact remains that spacetime does exist, it does expand, it is bent/warped in the presence of mass/energy, and when that happens we get the phenomenon we call gravity.

OK, here's a few questions for you.
If you refuse to answer them, as you have done in this thread so far, it will mean that you are nothing but a crank troll....and that would be the only logical conclusion that anyone reading your nonsense could arrive at.

Do you believe the effect we call gravity exists?
OK, a simple obvious question, with a simple obvious answer...yes of course the effect we call gravity exists.
Next question: Tell me, how and why does gravity occur?

Does magnetism exist?
Again, the simple obvious answer is yes, of course it does.
Next question: What is magnetism? Why does it occur? How does it occur?

Some more questions:
What is the strong nuclear force? What is the weak nuclear force?
Where do they come from? Why do they happen?
What would happen if they did not exist?

Now JukriS, are you a crank troll? Or are you going to answer those questions?

And of course if you do answer those questions, and those answers are we don't really know the how and why, then logically it also follows that while we do not know the how and why of spacetime expanding, as long as we have evidence to show that it does, that is the logical conclusion we must arrive at.
Click to expand...

We can explain Gravity with OUT curving space / pulling force!

Nucleus of atoms expanding all a atime and recycling expanding movement and thats the way expanding nucleus of atom s pushing each other away each other!

Expanding Earth skin pushing us away from expanding Earth centre!

Same time there is expanding outside movement / pushing force from hundred of billions expanding galaxys and that pushing force pushing us that way where is expanding Earth Centre!

I can explain what kind of system is expanding nucleus of atoms which recycling expanding movement with each other!

I can explain what kind of system is expanding movement!

You cant explain what kind of system is expanding space!

You cant explain what kinf of system is curving space!

EternalLove
 
I explain bending light and old redshifting light with expanding light / expanding photons which recycling expanding movement!

We can make a science test with light / photons!

You explain bending light with curving space and you dont know how mass can curving space!

You explain old redshifting light with expanding space and you cant explain expanding space!

I can explain what kind of system is expanding light! What kind of system is expanding photon and how expanding photons recycling expanding movement with just pushing force!

I can explain what kidf of system is expanding movement!

I can explain how eternal universe recycling eternal movement with just pushing force!

Energy = movement

Movement = Pushing force

Eternal recycling working with pushing force!

EternalLove
 
Last edited:
JukriS said:
I explain bending light and old redshifting light with expanding light / expanding photons which recycling expanding movement!

We can make a science test with light / photons!

You explain bending light with curving space and you dont know how mass can curving space!

You explain old redshifting light with expanding space and you cant explain expanding space!

I can explain what kind of system is expanding light! What kind of system is expanding photon and how expanding photons recycling expanding movement with just pushing force!

I can explain what kidf of system is expanding movement!

I can explain how eternal universe recycling eternal movement with just pushing force!

Energy = movement

Movement = Pushing force

Eternal recycling working with pushing force!

EternalLove
Click to expand...

You can't explain anything!

You wave your arms, spout gibberish and over use exclamaion marks!

ExternalGloves
 
origin said:
You can't explain anything!

You wave your arms, spout gibberish and over use exclamaion marks!

ExternalGloves
Click to expand...


On a scale of 1 to 10 representing the biggest trolls, I give him a 9.9, the same as chinglu....
If his ignorance wasn't so funny, it would really be scary :)
 
To the mods: Is this guy really posting from Finland? He sounds a lot like a Pole named Marosz that posts at Physforum. Same broken English, same inability to understand simple things...

That fellow is unmistakably stupid. Just wondering.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top