Meditation ?
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robtex, I think the most important thing that I learned from that book, (and really from everything that Ram Dass wrote), is that technique isn't very important in the end; that whether you are sitting in a full lotus position or you are washing the dishes, every moment that you exist is simply another opportunity for you to awaken. After a while, mindfulness becomes a natural part of your journey.
Ram Dass can say it far better than I ever could. Some passages from "Journey of Awakening" are reprinted with permission on the following website. Use the "next" link at the bottom of each page, in all there are three excerpts.
http://www.spiritsite.com/writing/ramdas/part1.shtml
Ram Dass can say it far better than I ever could. Some passages from "Journey of Awakening" are reprinted with permission on the following website. Use the "next" link at the bottom of each page, in all there are three excerpts.
http://www.spiritsite.com/writing/ramdas/part1.shtml
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Technique is important and here is why:
1) breathing is essential to the success of mediation. The more effective, and by effective I mean amount of oxygen in and out unimpeded to what is need for optimal breathing, the breathing the more effective the mediation. There is a direct correlation.
2) The more subdued the mind the less tension in the body which also directly correlates to success of mediation
3) Muscle relaxation is directly correlated to mediation
4) all three of the above, breathing, mental state and muscle tension are linked and influence one another.
The postures and techniques presented in mediation were produced to optimize those three variables in order to optimize mediation.
If you look at the postures in mediation books you will see that they all make an effort to mazimize access to breathing passages including for example
straight back
chest open
some have have chairs so legs slightly lower than hips for further open airways and breathing capity
movement is kept to minimum or none at all to keep muscle tension down
thougths are curtailed to at higher levels not controlled at concious level to keep brain activity light .
I am glad you have found someone that you think you can learn from but i have two ideas for you:
1) find a person who is knowledgable in it (and not some other guy who read a book a person who learned from another person at one time),
2) apply information you gain in next year about postures breathing and muslce relaxation and you will find any knowledge you have gain thus far improved by technical applications.
As footnote, what are one or two points from Dass that you learned and how have they helped you thus far? I am trying to learn to....take care
1) breathing is essential to the success of mediation. The more effective, and by effective I mean amount of oxygen in and out unimpeded to what is need for optimal breathing, the breathing the more effective the mediation. There is a direct correlation.
2) The more subdued the mind the less tension in the body which also directly correlates to success of mediation
3) Muscle relaxation is directly correlated to mediation
4) all three of the above, breathing, mental state and muscle tension are linked and influence one another.
The postures and techniques presented in mediation were produced to optimize those three variables in order to optimize mediation.
If you look at the postures in mediation books you will see that they all make an effort to mazimize access to breathing passages including for example
straight back
chest open
some have have chairs so legs slightly lower than hips for further open airways and breathing capity
movement is kept to minimum or none at all to keep muscle tension down
thougths are curtailed to at higher levels not controlled at concious level to keep brain activity light .
I am glad you have found someone that you think you can learn from but i have two ideas for you:
1) find a person who is knowledgable in it (and not some other guy who read a book a person who learned from another person at one time),
2) apply information you gain in next year about postures breathing and muslce relaxation and you will find any knowledge you have gain thus far improved by technical applications.
As footnote, what are one or two points from Dass that you learned and how have they helped you thus far? I am trying to learn to....take care
robtex, you have a much different way of looking at things than I do, I sense we are pretty different in that way. I guess I don't think so much about what I "learned", as to what I am experiencing, or I am open to.
The downside for me with "technique" is twofold; it tends to reinforce that meditation is not natural, that you have to do something special or unusual or aggressive to be mindful. Secondly I have encountered quite a few who use technique in a form of spiritual oneupsmanship, the old "my lotus position is better than yours" game.
That's not to say that technique isn't useful to some; but I learned quickly that for me, it gets in the way of mindfulness.
The downside for me with "technique" is twofold; it tends to reinforce that meditation is not natural, that you have to do something special or unusual or aggressive to be mindful. Secondly I have encountered quite a few who use technique in a form of spiritual oneupsmanship, the old "my lotus position is better than yours" game.
That's not to say that technique isn't useful to some; but I learned quickly that for me, it gets in the way of mindfulness.
i also feel the same as watcher about this. 'meditation' as it has become popularly understood, to mean stitting in a buddha-posture is to me conformist, and takes away the moving adventurous life away from those who practice practice practice....i have one old zen book where the master tells you not to care about the pain you might feel in the seated position....hmmm, well for me, when you get pain body is tellin you something. like 'get out of the pain. 'go sit somewheres alse' or walk etc
i am suspicious of emphasis on interiorization...from research i have grokked that isms that DO push this seem to also get worldviews which dream of 'escape from planet earth' if not in this lifetimes then n 'other lifetimes'
i love moving, aND wont feel guilty about it, though i also like to just sit when it natrually arises
i am suspicious of emphasis on interiorization...from research i have grokked that isms that DO push this seem to also get worldviews which dream of 'escape from planet earth' if not in this lifetimes then n 'other lifetimes'
i love moving, aND wont feel guilty about it, though i also like to just sit when it natrually arises
OK Watcher and Duendy sorry to jab at it I will let it go. But would really like more elaboration on feedback on way you mediate, as in process ....maybe learn from you guys.
In the mid 90's to strengthen my quads for martial arts I use to use mediation to what we called a chinese chair. To do a chinese chair you put your back against the wall and sit down without a chair until your thighs are parallel to the floor. You keep your knees together and your back straight. Than with your feet touching, your knees touching, your thighs parallel to the floor and your back/neck straight you remove your tailbone from the wall and sit there.
To keep your legs from cramping its a good idea not to put tension into your head by thinking how long u have left. So I used mediation in conjunction with that exercise. I would take deep deliberate breaths in through my mouth out through my nose and close my eyes. Sometimes I would see shapes or nature in my head after a while and for a short time, measured in minutes, I would forget I was on the wall at all.
It was kinda funny, the school rented space at a ymca and aerobics people and weight lifters would walk by and it would like I was alseep on the wall in that funky position.
I usually put my hands on my knees so they would not dangle.
In the mid 90's to strengthen my quads for martial arts I use to use mediation to what we called a chinese chair. To do a chinese chair you put your back against the wall and sit down without a chair until your thighs are parallel to the floor. You keep your knees together and your back straight. Than with your feet touching, your knees touching, your thighs parallel to the floor and your back/neck straight you remove your tailbone from the wall and sit there.
To keep your legs from cramping its a good idea not to put tension into your head by thinking how long u have left. So I used mediation in conjunction with that exercise. I would take deep deliberate breaths in through my mouth out through my nose and close my eyes. Sometimes I would see shapes or nature in my head after a while and for a short time, measured in minutes, I would forget I was on the wall at all.
It was kinda funny, the school rented space at a ymca and aerobics people and weight lifters would walk by and it would like I was alseep on the wall in that funky position.
I usually put my hands on my knees so they would not dangle.
robtex said:
Here's a pretty good site talking about mindfulness meditation, which is where my meditation eventually took me.
From:
http://www.buddhanet.net/lmed1.htm
"In actuality, if meditation is to help you acquire peace of mind as you function in your life, then it must be a dynamic activity, part and parcel of your daily experience. Meditation is here and now, moment-to-moment, amid the ups and downs of life, amid conflicts, disappointments and heartaches - amid success and stress."
Hey guys,
Yeah, meditation is cool.
A whole lot of techniques too.
Does anybody here mastermind?
Many folk meditating on one idea or prayer to create a synergistic vibe.
Like praying for world peace at 11:11 or New Year.
Group meditations have many benefits as well.
I enjoy the moving meditation of Tai chi chuan long form and Pua Kua.
Single thought meditations like TM or breath counting I still use, very easy to learn.
Grounding, Shielding, Healing, does anyone extend their meditations here?
Watcher,
I like the quote. My recurring issue is ego. I get to a point where I am conscious of the moving moment and all becomes effortless. Then an old tape starts playing and 'I' am centerstage. Then I look how effortlessly I do everything with grace and clarity and I'm lost in how great I am. Drinking Binge often follows.
duendy,
I should grok more. Thanks for reminding me of stranger in a strange land, great book. Some 'rules' for some meditations do have a purpose. The body is in part an energy system and certain postures help augument/ understand/ manipulate this energy flow.
robtex,
I do not like the chinese chair. The US military uses it for punishment in basic. Like the front leaning rest position. In some physical meditation I use the Iron Board (becoming stiff with head on one chair and ankles on another) Which form of Tai Chi do you use? I was at a martial arts demonstration, and the best (imho) artist there was performing a long form Tai chi I didn't recognize. He performed his motions 3 times perfectly to my skilled eyes. Each time he went faster and his stances went deeper. It became obvious that Tai chi would be effective in combat. I went to speak with him after. But I didn't speak the language.
Yeah, meditation is cool.
A whole lot of techniques too.
Does anybody here mastermind?
Many folk meditating on one idea or prayer to create a synergistic vibe.
Like praying for world peace at 11:11 or New Year.
Group meditations have many benefits as well.
I enjoy the moving meditation of Tai chi chuan long form and Pua Kua.
Single thought meditations like TM or breath counting I still use, very easy to learn.
Grounding, Shielding, Healing, does anyone extend their meditations here?
Watcher,
I like the quote. My recurring issue is ego. I get to a point where I am conscious of the moving moment and all becomes effortless. Then an old tape starts playing and 'I' am centerstage. Then I look how effortlessly I do everything with grace and clarity and I'm lost in how great I am. Drinking Binge often follows.
duendy,
I should grok more. Thanks for reminding me of stranger in a strange land, great book. Some 'rules' for some meditations do have a purpose. The body is in part an energy system and certain postures help augument/ understand/ manipulate this energy flow.
robtex,
I do not like the chinese chair. The US military uses it for punishment in basic. Like the front leaning rest position. In some physical meditation I use the Iron Board (becoming stiff with head on one chair and ankles on another) Which form of Tai Chi do you use? I was at a martial arts demonstration, and the best (imho) artist there was performing a long form Tai chi I didn't recognize. He performed his motions 3 times perfectly to my skilled eyes. Each time he went faster and his stances went deeper. It became obvious that Tai chi would be effective in combat. I went to speak with him after. But I didn't speak the language.
I haven't read any meditation books and feel no need to. Mindtripping on my own. No brainwash ideology help needed. Thanx. I think it's too personal and besides I try to keep my mind clean from outer influences: guru's, teachers, etc, so I hear only me and have my own thoughts.
As for physical part, I'm into martial arts long enough to know my body.
As for physical part, I'm into martial arts long enough to know my body.
Insanely Elite said:
I use the chinese chair to stengthen my quads and found I could do it longer when used in conjuntion with meditation techinques. Any physcial exercise can be used for punishment. That does not make the exercise in and of itself bad. I do not study tai chi but it is popular here. It is not a meathod of combat..it is a source of health and wellness. If you like tai chi you should go visit a school...give you a better prespective on it.
My brother saw an aikido teacher do the iron board but he didn't see him get into the position. How exactly do you get into the chairs without facing them? Walk us through the iron chair..i am curious how it works..Without shoulder support I wonder if the neck is strong enough to hold the head? Of if you use shoullder support.
...Hey robtex,
I use the chinese chair to stengthen my quads and found I could do it longer when used in conjuntion with meditation techinques. Any physcial exercise can be used for punishment. That does not make the exercise in and of itself bad.
I use a deep horse for quads, while watching tv, or when practicing blocks and strikes. I didn't say it was bad, I just don't like it.
I do not study tai chi but it is popular here.
My bad. I see now it was Jeynar.
It is not a meathod of combat..it is a source of health and wellness. If you like tai chi you should go visit a school...give you a better prespective on it.
My perspective is fine, thank you. All martial arts are a source of health and wellness. I've studied several styles of Tai chi from bona fide instructors. It's origins and motions are indeed rooted it combat. Soft style. As Pua Kua is. Both are taught as moving meditations. The names of the forms are telling, Like 'crane guards flank' and 'dragon breathes fire' you get the idea. You should have seen this guy speed it up, you wouldn't question it.
My brother saw an aikido teacher do the iron board but he didn't see him get into the position. How exactly do you get into the chairs without facing them? Walk us through the iron chair..i am curious how it works..Without shoulder support I wonder if the neck is strong enough to hold the head? Of if you use shoullder support.
Basically, face two chairs together and space them as apart as you are skilled. Place your head on one seat, and ankles on the other. Press up so you are in a strait line. You can adjust body with your hands on the floor to get in position or use your feet to adjust the lower chair. Now clear your mind, and visualize your body as an Iron Board. Stiff, inflexible, unquestionalbly solid. Hold the thought. This is the Iron Board. I've also seen people stiffen the body first and be lifted to the chairs, and also lifted up and ran around the room by the waist stiff as a board, cool sight. The degree of your physical training and ability to hold the thought dictates how close the chairs are and how long you hold it. I've done it on 2 sideways 2x4's with only the back of my head and heels touching.I've seen people hold this for a half hour, I'm sure it could be done all night with focus and training. It is often used in demonstrations where the trusted student performs this skill, while an instructor cuts a melon or somesuch off the students abdomen with a sword. I use to use it when I had migraines(real ones), it was the only thing I found that helped. Now I only occasionally use it for one thought physical meditation.
A good demonstration of the power of the mind over the body is the iron chain or iron ring. Place your hand in an OK. focus on the O thumb and index finger. Meld them together in your mind (and force the tips together with your muscles) visualize the O is an iron chainlink. A perfect link of a chain. No breaks. a solid circle. Now ask your brawny friend to take both of his index fingers inside your O and slowly try to pull your finger and thumb apart. As long as you can hold the thought(and the muscles in your hand are prepared) the chain will not be broken. It is an excellent demonstration. The power of someones arms,back and chest against your mind, your finger, and thumb.
I use the chinese chair to stengthen my quads and found I could do it longer when used in conjuntion with meditation techinques. Any physcial exercise can be used for punishment. That does not make the exercise in and of itself bad.
I use a deep horse for quads, while watching tv, or when practicing blocks and strikes. I didn't say it was bad, I just don't like it.
I do not study tai chi but it is popular here.
My bad. I see now it was Jeynar.
It is not a meathod of combat..it is a source of health and wellness. If you like tai chi you should go visit a school...give you a better prespective on it.
My perspective is fine, thank you. All martial arts are a source of health and wellness. I've studied several styles of Tai chi from bona fide instructors. It's origins and motions are indeed rooted it combat. Soft style. As Pua Kua is. Both are taught as moving meditations. The names of the forms are telling, Like 'crane guards flank' and 'dragon breathes fire' you get the idea. You should have seen this guy speed it up, you wouldn't question it.
My brother saw an aikido teacher do the iron board but he didn't see him get into the position. How exactly do you get into the chairs without facing them? Walk us through the iron chair..i am curious how it works..Without shoulder support I wonder if the neck is strong enough to hold the head? Of if you use shoullder support.
Basically, face two chairs together and space them as apart as you are skilled. Place your head on one seat, and ankles on the other. Press up so you are in a strait line. You can adjust body with your hands on the floor to get in position or use your feet to adjust the lower chair. Now clear your mind, and visualize your body as an Iron Board. Stiff, inflexible, unquestionalbly solid. Hold the thought. This is the Iron Board. I've also seen people stiffen the body first and be lifted to the chairs, and also lifted up and ran around the room by the waist stiff as a board, cool sight. The degree of your physical training and ability to hold the thought dictates how close the chairs are and how long you hold it. I've done it on 2 sideways 2x4's with only the back of my head and heels touching.I've seen people hold this for a half hour, I'm sure it could be done all night with focus and training. It is often used in demonstrations where the trusted student performs this skill, while an instructor cuts a melon or somesuch off the students abdomen with a sword. I use to use it when I had migraines(real ones), it was the only thing I found that helped. Now I only occasionally use it for one thought physical meditation.
A good demonstration of the power of the mind over the body is the iron chain or iron ring. Place your hand in an OK. focus on the O thumb and index finger. Meld them together in your mind (and force the tips together with your muscles) visualize the O is an iron chainlink. A perfect link of a chain. No breaks. a solid circle. Now ask your brawny friend to take both of his index fingers inside your O and slowly try to pull your finger and thumb apart. As long as you can hold the thought(and the muscles in your hand are prepared) the chain will not be broken. It is an excellent demonstration. The power of someones arms,back and chest against your mind, your finger, and thumb.
Tai Chi is a potent martial art, extremely effective in combat (as evidenced by its frequent association with weapons), but it takes much longer to master it for that use because it relies much less on brute physical exertion. Most people just don't train in it with combat in mind, and in some styles its practical applications are underplayed if not ignored - the problem when something becomes "popular".
Tai Chi was first and foremost developed as a martial art. In classical Yang style one first learns the form comprising of 112 basic postures. These basic postures, originally designed for martial application teaches the student how to optimally align the body structure to manifest or redirect power. - YMAA website: Tai Chi