Men hate competing with women

[nietzschefan]

In my field(I.T - Programming), women are treated with big fat kid gloves. I have worked with so far one very competent women directly in the past, she was not held back at all and was given a position that both challenged her and was very lucritive. Another woman, out and out sucked the boss's wang just to get the position to hand in weekly reports to him(little did she know that it really meant nothing, the team was small with all contractors). Otherwise, if a woman was incompetent I found they would bend over backwards to find a position elsewhere, or get this, at General Electric they would just PROMOTE her to Team Leader /Manager.

I think feminists should fight bigger fires like perhaps clitoral circumcision in the world.

 

[Oli]

The problem is that from what I've seen of sport (Cricket and Australian Football), sports is anything BUT sportsmanship. Pushing, shoving, taunting, and fights breaking out between individuals (or even both teams!)

Because you can find a dickhead wherever you go? The majority of sportsmen are sportsmen.

This tells me that shaking hands is nothing more than a formality, an exception imposed by society.

Then you've missed the point. If I don't like someone I don't shake hands, regardless of what "society thinks". I shake hands as a sign of respect.

Professional athletes have no real respect for each other. They train to win, and fuck anyone who stands in their way.

Really? During the competion itself it's "win, win, win" as soon as it's over they congartualte ecah other on the quality of play. Or are they all liars as well when interviewed?

Personally, I think it's a joke. Why would I want to shake the hand of someone who is trying to humiliate on national TV, and potentially result in a cut of my pay?

Trying to humiliate you by beating you? Wow are you ever screwed up. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Being beaten is humiliating?

Ahh, but it also proves my point. Merely because two people engage in niceties, does not mean that 'commaradery' is present.

No, showing the niceties indicates respect for each and the art. Sparring is done to improve technique. If someone beats you it shows your technique is faulty and you should thank them for showing where and how you can improve. Personal/ impersonal animosity in the gym/ dojo? I am ashamed for you and your teachers.

 

[Tyler]

mountain you don't have the first understanding of sports.

I've grown playing hockey like every other good ol' Canadian boy. My dad was a college hockey player, my uncle was a teenage star, I was suppose to be a good hockey player. And I loved it my entire life.

But I quit high-level hockey when I went to college, opting not to try out for the varsity/secondary team because of time demands as opposed to schooling. My only retreat then was the mens league that ran out of the university arena. Sadly, this was not the level of play I was accustom to and it became boring very fast. I started to miss the physicality of my old game; the hitting, the pushing, the cheap-shots, yes, even the fighting.

One game near the end of the season we played a team with a particularly scrappy player. He was playing left wing and I was playing right defense, and I was on the ice most of the time he was, so we played the whole game against each other much rougher than we did against any other player. We were jabbing sticks into each others stomachs, punching when the ref wouldn't see, raising our fists a bit when we hit each other... just generally going at it like it was Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals.

With 12 seconds left in the game the puck and both of us were infront of my net and I was doing my best to keep him from scoring. As the horn blew the friendly jabs had turned into real fists and we were in a full out fight. If anyone on either team besides us had been a real hockey player, he would have stepped in to help his teammate, but we appeared to be the only ones with some chutzpah, so we were in it alone.

Gloves came off, helmets came off, and a real fight ensued. At one point he elbowed me in the neck in a weird, accidental sort of hit. I fell to the ground for a second, coughed up some blood and got back up. I hit him square in the jaw and knocked him into my team's net, so his back kind of snapped against the crossbar of the net. He fell to the ground and got back up just as two referees stepped between us and held us apart.

He was still looking at me and I at him trying to figure out if we would attempt to break free of the ref to continue pounding each other. He reached out his hand in what I thought was another punch.

All he did was tap me on the side of the face and (en francais) said: "Thanks man, good fight!"

I responded in kind and we skated off the ice chatting and comparing wounds.

That's what physicality in sports is about. It's all just men having fun in a physical manner in a forum where it's healthy and acceptable. I came home that night and coughed up some more blood before my roommates and girlfriend lambasted me for taking pleasure in such a "sick activity". All I could do was shake my head and accept that they'll never understand what it is to a sportsman.

This tells me that shaking hands is nothing more than a formality, an exception imposed by society

1. I would never shake the hand of an opposing player I didn't respect.
2. It is not a formality, it is a sign of respect and a reminder that it's all just a game.

----------------------------------

^
This is what sports are about.

 

[Dark520]

----------------------------------

^
This is what sports are about.

Haha, I didn't ever see that^.

Anyway, I'm not gonna lie here, as a guy, hell yeah, if I get beaten by a girl I'm pissed, probably more so than if I were to be beaten by a girl. That doesn't mean that I'm gonna be a complete dick about it, but, to myself, I'll be incredibly more motivated to do better next time.

Why would I be pissed? Because usually they're smaller than me, weaker than me and not as intense as me. When I see all thing being in my favor expect for play style, I get mad because I KNOW I could have done better and beaten them, if I had employed the correct play style. And, honestly, who likes to lose to a 4' midget at anything (exaggerating, don't take it literally)? If I lose to someone who is 6'10" 220lbs, I'm not gonna be beating myself up as much because, that guy's fucking huge, and I'm sure he worked harder for that size than I did mine. I see myself as having an excuse for losing to him, but I see no excuse in losing to that midget I mentioned above.

The only reason I can see that men should be pissed when they lose at a physical sport is because that's what we're built for, women aren't. Therefore, we should win whenever we come up against them, we think.



In a business sense, women are only handicapped because they think they are. I've never seen any guy go 'Ah I'm gonna keep this woman out of a job just because she's a woman', not now at least. I've almost never seen any guy be openly sexist, and the only people that I have seen were fanatics. If I had to guess, I'd say that women just make this crap up so that they can bring their case to court and get their jobs that way. Have you ever seen any organizations that are united under the idea of 'Let us, the men, keep the women down and make them live horrible lives!' No. Have you ever seen organizations that are united under the idea 'Let us women stick it to the man (literally and figuratively)!' Yes, hundreds of them. Again, women are only handicapped because they are obsessed with thinking they are. If anything, I'd have to say that business is more cutthroat for men than women. Other men don't hold back when they see a chance to completely ruin another guy.

Dam..I lost where I was heading with this...oh well, this'll do for now.

 

[Tyler]

The funny thing about that picture is that I doubt I've ever seen anything like that in women's sports, but I've seen plenty of men act like that. A few coaches in my day have told me women have a different and more persistent intensity about them then guys do. At the end of the day, I know I'm still playing a hockey game and that guy I just rammed my stick into and broke his wrist bone will gladly join me for a beer.

As for women in the workplace...

Frankly, I think there's simply less comraderie about women. Just the other night I was in a situation where there were 8 guys and two had brought women with them. The whole night through the girls barely spoke to each other directly and only seemed to pipe up in large-group discussion or go one-on-one with a guy. On the other hand, every time I'm in a situation where there are a large group of girls and one other guy, I will become best buds with that guy in a minute. There isn't a hesitation. It doesn't matter what he looks like, what style of clothes he wears, what girl he's trying to fuck, anything. Large groups of girls are annoying as shit and I will try my best to spend as much of the time with him nearby to keep my sanity about me. Girls do not act like that. Guys will form an instant connection with each other just to have some outlet of sanity from all the estrogen around them. Girls, on the other hand, do not stick together.

This really has little to do directly with the workplace issue, I suppose. But it may be part of the reason that it can appear like men are working to keep women down. Men will instantly form 'teams' of some sort with each other. It just makes sense to us and helps socialization. Women do not band together with the same force.

Think of how many girls' you've known who say they're best friends are male, that they don't have nearly as close female friends as they do male friends. On the other hand, I can't name one guy I know whose best friends are mostly female. It seems every male on the goddam planet has a very close-knit group of male friends. Girls go in and out of friendships with each other, have various circles that they flow through, have boyfriends and ditch their old friends, etc. But me and my own like most guys I've seen through my life, have long-standing friendships that simply don't break or even really change throughout time. They have teams, and they stick to those teams. Well, until marriage for many.

It's also interesting that of all the supposed "oppressed minorities" women seem to be the only ones who've never led a violent revolution attempt. Anyone that can think of another?

Anyway, back to sports...

If you don't get it, you don't get it. That's fine, though I feel sorry for you missing out on such a wonderful and joyous aspect of life. I've done years of martial arts, most of my life on the ice and plenty of other physical games. I've beaten tons of people senseless, seriously hurt others, broken bones, left bruises, caused cuts, etc. And all of that has been done to me. At the end of the day it's fun and I wouldn't trade any of it for the world. Rare were the ocassions wherein I did not respect my opponent; any understanding of sport that requires lack of mutual respect is a poor understanding.

Frankly, I find it more humiliating to lose a game of chess than to lose a fistfight. So if the object of chess is to humiliate your opponent then I suppose grandmasters must not respect each other, right? Ah........ wrong.

Because the point/goal is not to "humiliate the other guy". The goal is to win, to achieve something for yourself. Humiliating him may just be a side-effect. Just like in a kung-fu tournament my goal is not to get blood all over the matt. I don't consider myself successful just because more of his blood is lost than mine. It's just a side-effect that I don't particularly give a shit about. I care about my own achievement, not his failure.

How blind one must be to think determination is directed at humiliating others rather than personal achievement. I dream of my success, not everyone else's failure.

 

[Tyler]

From what I've experienced, today's generation will screw anyone over to get to the top.

You've never participated in a sport have you? Have you even existed in the business or academic world?

In my experience, women are the ones much more likely to fuck over their friends and colleagues. I can't imagine for the life of me what the offer would have to be for me to backstab a friend of mine. I've known many women who've done it for as little as a chance at a small increase in utility.

 

[SoLiDUS]

"Men who compete with other men whether it be at sport or in business do so with certain commaradery. It's all slapping on the back,grabbing each others testicles, wishing the opponent good luck and enjoying the challenge.

BUT if that opponent is female, out come the knives, the venom, the dirty tricks. Derogative comments, back stabbing and sexism, anything they can pull out of the bag to get the woman out of the race altogether.

Men do not want to compete with women. Why? Do they fear losing to women because in their minds women are weak and losing to one therfore means they are weak?"


(source my blog)

Awesome source. I find it amazing that you can actually get people to argue with stuff you pull out of your ass.

 

[SoLiDUS]

why does creative fossil create sexism wars?

That's her claim to fame. Just like LixLuke's is being retarded and mine is nitpicking.

 

[Nutter]

In my experience, women are the ones much more likely to fuck over their friends and colleagues. I can't imagine for the life of me what the offer would have to be for me to backstab a friend of mine. I've known many women who've done it for as little as a chance at a small increase in utility.

Most women have to deal with the menstruation and the associated PMS-ing, which of course make them even more irrational and vindictive.

 

[francois]

"Men who compete with other men whether it be at sport or in business do so with certain commaradery. It's all slapping on the back,grabbing each others testicles, wishing the opponent good luck and enjoying the challenge.

BUT if that opponent is female, out come the knives, the venom, the dirty tricks. Derogative comments, back stabbing and sexism, anything they can pull out of the bag to get the woman out of the race altogether.

Men do not want to compete with women. Why? Do they fear losing to women because in their minds women are weak and losing to one therfore means they are weak?"


(source my blog)

In nearly everyone's mind, women are weaker than men. People tend to think of women as handicapped, almost like a man in a wheelchair. Indeed, this is warranted. If it were not, there would be no need for a male and female league for every sport. So naturally, it is disgraceful for a man to lose at something to a woman, especially at sports. So to answer your question, the answer is yes. It doesn't make men feel good to lose to women. I don't know what men need to use dirty tricks to beat out women, but if they need it to save their egos, then, whatever.

You are remarkably astute for having figured this out.

Now what is the point?

 

[Tyler]

To answer the original question:

Men who compete with other men whether it be at sport or in business do so with certain commaradery. It's all slapping on the back,grabbing each others testicles, wishing the opponent good luck and enjoying the challenge.

BUT if that opponent is female, out come the knives, the venom, the dirty tricks. Derogative comments, back stabbing and sexism, anything they can pull out of the bag to get the woman out of the race altogether.

Men do not want to compete with women. Why? Do they fear losing to women because in their minds women are weak and losing to one therfore means they are weak?

In a physical sport I am ashamed to lose to a woman for the same reason I would ashamed to lose to a man with lesser natural advantages than myself. If a woman is stronger, faster, more talented than me it is because she has worked much, much harder. If some other man is stronger, faster, more talented than me it may be that we've worked equally hard and he has a greater natural advantage. If he doesn't, then I am ashamed to lose. Because I lost out of nothing more than laziness. Same with most women. Though of course there are a few women who are simply naturally bigger and stronger than me (6'1, 180 lbs.), but not very many.

I am ashamed to lose an intellectual endeavour to a woman because I am ashamed to lose intellectual endeavours period. I have a competitive nature and want to win everything I do. Not that it is an aspect of myself that ever gets in the way of having fun or understanding a situation and reality. I simply am never content with losing. To a man or a woman.

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Yet I take serious objection to your second point. It may the most counter-intuitive statement I've ever heard. When I compete against a woman all my knives, derogatory comments and claws are withdrawn. I'm much more gentle when I compete with women.

When I was 17 I had the pleasure of playing hockey against a team that had 4 of Canada's Olympic gold medalist women's hockey players. They were four of the best female players in the world. My team was comprised of mostly upper-level Toronto teenage boys. Had it been four NHL players we would have been killed. We ended up beating the women's team and their Olympic players were surprisingly easy to play against. Of course, this was not a happy day for the many gals at our school who had taunted "you're gonna lose to a bunch of girls!!!" when they assumed the best female players in the world could beat our highschool.

Anyway, the point is that I had never seen our team play so weak and gentle as I did that day. Traditionally in a game there would be 2-3 fights and a few boarding majors and at least one injury. But we barely hit them, we didn't come close to dropping the gloves against them, no one was even taking light cheap shots when the ref wasn't looking. I played defense and generally my job when the puck is in our zone is to make life a living hell for the opposition player standing near my net. But when one of the girls was there I just didn't do anything of the things I normally do; kick their foot, slap the back of their leg with my stick, crosscheck them a bit, put my stick into their ribs... All the normal defensive tactics were abandoned and I played completely clean.

Why? I didn't want to hit a girl.

It was the same vocally. Usually our matches are full of "get the fuck out my face or I'll ram my stick up your ass" and "you know I fucked your sister yesterday. I think your mom was jealous" before a faceoff. But we didn't say one word to them the whole game.

So no, in my experience (many more than just this one), everything you said is the exact opposite of true. In sports and life I will tell a guy to go fuck himself or that I rammed a dildo up his sister's ass just to throw him off his game. Against a woman I'm silent and polite.

In martial arts tournaments when I'd fight a woman I often would find myself fighting much more defensive than offensive (generally not my style), largely because of this inner urge just to not hit a girl. It's been so engrained in my head that hitting boys is okay and hitting girls is the epitomy of wrong, that even in a healthy environment I can barely bring myself to do it. I've lost more than one fight against a gal because of my inability to gather offensive initiative from the first seconds.

 

[mountainhare]

Tyler:

This is what sports are about.

This?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqHKGz7QU6s

Ahh, entire teams of grown men pushing, punching and taunting each other at 1/4 time. Such commaradery.

Or when the British sing 'You all live in a convict colony' to the Australian cricket team in the Ashes. And ask Warney how the wife is?http://www.convictcreations.com/football/convictstain.htm

Such commaradery just boggles the mind!

Mike Tyson bites the ear of his opponent... twice!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctjWtmT52_U

But hey, I'm a little ignorant of sport... perhaps biting your opponent's ear is a sign of respect.

Windbags such ToR and her supporters are just talking out of their asshole. Professional sports is highly competitive, and players often engage in dirty tactics. Business is highly competitive, and businessmen will engage in dirty tactics to kick your ass. It doesn't matter if you are man or woman. Some people just don't give their subordinates any respect, period.

If you can't handle it, then don't do business. Or, as the cliche goes "Better get used to it, sweetheart."

 

[mountainhare]

Tyler:

Why? I didn't want to hit a girl.

So you're treating women with kids gloves? Sexist!
But then again, if you treated them like equals, they would probably bitch that you are victimizing them. "Whhaaa waa waaa, you're holding me back because I'm a woman! Boo hoo hoo!"

 

[Tyler]

There are jerks everywhere, sports is just one place it shows. And yes, if someone acts like a complete jerk they will get retribution. I'll continue to use hockey as my example because, well, because I'm a hockey player.

It is against the rules to hit someone from behind (in their back) into the boards in hockey. It's a very dangerous play and risks breaking the guys neck, giving him a concusion, cracking his skull, etc. When someone on another team does it to one of my teammates, I will immediatly defend my player. That is how brawls start. And at the end of the day I will have personal feelings of anger towards the guy who did that. But not against his teammates who just came to his defense and not to anyone else. And there's nothing irregular about that. I dislike plenty of people who I don't play hockey against, he just happens to be one I do play against.

And I see noooooooothing in the world wrong with verbal taunting. I think some where along the lines mothers stopped teaching their kids "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me". To paraphrase George Carlin; people have become wusses in general.

I played for a few tournaments on the Ontario Jewish Hockey team as well as a mostly jewish club team. We were taunted endlessly. Every tournament we ever played we got ethnic slurs handed to us and worse. I have only one recollection of that ever resulting in one of our players acting out of line, we were too disciplined to let that get to us. And while we didn't have ethnic slurs to hail at our opponents, we certainly talked shit as well as anyone else. Again, I see nothing wrong with that.

Never once did someone calling me a kyke or a heeb or a dirty jew ever hurt me. Them bashing my head into the ice did. But being called a heeb? Ah, no. I don't really give a shit what anyone thinks of jews, nor do I care if they're ignorant assholes, nor do I care if they're just trying to throw me off my game.

And if you've never played on a club team for long periods of time you likely have no idea what comradery is. It certainly exists in the military and some other vocations, but there are few areas for young males (under 18) to experience teamwork and team-first mentality better than athletics.

As for Tyson... He's a lunatic. They exist outside athletics too. Or have you not noticed?

------------------------

The women-versus-men issue was always funny for me. Countless women have argued over the years that women play hockey just as well and that they just aren't as big. No, that's wrong. If they played just as well they should have kicked our asses. Four Canadian Men Olympic hockey players could have won 60-0 against our team, not lost 5-3. It was an embarassment for them, as far as I was concerned.

The same thing happened when our provincial-championship women's field hockey team challenged the men's ice hockey team to a game. We won. Having never played field hockey, we won. Why? Because we're faster, stronger and simply better at hockey. There was nothing else to it, we won.

Then the women's ice hockey team challenged us to a game on ice. I remember the announcement the next morning.

"Men's Varsity played Women's Varsity in hockey the other night. The final score of the game was 16-2. Good game, girls!"

Of course, it was 16-2 in our favour. But they weren't about to announce that.

 

[Tyler]

And if you ever read an interview with NHL players who fight you'll usually hear the same thing throughout.

They don't dislike the other guy, they generally respect him and they had a lot of fun in the fight. They do it for the crowd and the team. The audience gets pumped up when they see a fight and become loud and supportive. The teammates get to see their brother in arms give his all in support of them. It gives you energy and renews motivation to see someone go out their and defend their teammates in a fight. It's fun, the audience enjoys it and the players all have a good laugh. Very, very rarely do you ever hear that it was personal and that they don't respect each other.

That only happens in Euro-sports like soccer. Canadians aren't quite trashy enough to spit on each other, call their mothers terrorist whores or headbutt cheapshots. We generally have enough brain cells to realize a game is a game.

 

[Anti-Flag]

Men do not want to compete with women. Why? Do they fear losing to women because in their minds women are weak and losing to one therfore means they are weak?"

Probably because win or lose they'll bitch. If they win then "you were just going easy on them" or they become condescending like they've proved something on behalf of their entire gender. Generally women tend to be more likely to be 'bad winners' as it were. If they lose or worse get embarrassingly beat then you were supposed to go easier on them.
It's all about attitude. Which stems from the way some women want equality and others don't, and some want to have their cake and eat it. The simple fact is a lot of men have no idea how a woman wants to be treated with respect to anything these days.
Think you'd find in reality most men are turned on by women of similar abilities to them - I mean damn some of the girls I've played sports with were hot.

 

[madanthonywayne]

Men do not want to compete with women. Why? Do they fear losing to women because in their minds women are weak and losing to one therfore means they are weak?"

It should be obvious. If you lose to a girl, you've lost to a girl. This makes you weaker than a female. If you beat a girl, you beat a girl. There's no honor in that.

Better to not compete with a female at all. As with global thermonuclear war,

The only winning move is not to play.​

 

[Tyler N.]

Men have fun playing each other, but there is a societal stigma that means that if you lose to a woman you are beyond pathetic. Thus, men get more desperate against women if they are about to lose, simply because losing is social shame. Personally, I don't care if I lose to a woman, as long as the woman was more fit then me. If the woman was less fit then me, then I feel unskilled and that bothers me more then unstrong for some reason. It is usually fun playing women though, simply because you get to mop the field so to speak. I remember a soccer game back in high school, and we were playing the womans team. We were up 8-0, I think. So, I was one of the worst players on the team (how does one get better by sitting on the bench, anyways?) THey put me in front because I never got to play. Anyways, most of the women were not bitchy or anything like that, but the one midfielder that I kept meeting with the ball was incredibly physical. She would push and shove and whatnot. So, I think it is more that some women get bitchy when they are losing, not that women in general do, as others suggested.

 

[madanthonywayne]

I ran cross country in high school. We had one route called "The Poor Farm" that was a thirteen mile run. The girl's team would run a similiar but shorter route, maybe eight miles.

Well, the girl's team would leave before us on this run but if the worst male runner did not return before the best female; he would be subject to horrific teasing.

You can bet we all always beat every single female runner. (I would, however, hang back right behind some of the hotter female runners till just past the halfway point to enjoy the view.)

 

[weed_eater_guy]

Ya know, in fair competition to a woman of near-equal skill, I find it more fun to compete with her, wether or not I loose at whatever the task is. More fun when a little tension is involved...