Btw, Mohammed -peace be upon him- created nothing.
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Monotheism a myth
- Thread starter sol13
- Start date
myth of monotheism
If the Quran is the written word of god then why are there so many contradictions in it. It can't be that god changes his mind so perhaps there was more than one god writing it.
How was man created:
"Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
Fine. God created man out of congealed blood. I don't believe it but it is consistent
"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
Hmmm. Start of a problem here. Could there be more tha one god?
"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
Dust. Not clay and not blood. Perhaps there's a third god.
"But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
Now this is miraculous. To create man out of nothing. Is this the fourth god?
"He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man)
becomes an open disputer! (16:4).
Well I could do that. But surely I'm not the fifth god.
With regards to the pantheon soap I agree with you. It is a soap. I also regard monotheism as a soap but when I wash myself in polytheistic soap I come out feeling fresh, revived and loving and wanting to socialise with everyone. But when I wash myself in that monotheistic soap I feel dirty and unclean. I want to withdraw from society and destroy all that polytheistic soap and make everyone wash in monotheistic soap.
Bruce Wayne said:
If the Quran is the written word of god then why are there so many contradictions in it. It can't be that god changes his mind so perhaps there was more than one god writing it.
How was man created:
"Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
Fine. God created man out of congealed blood. I don't believe it but it is consistent
"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
Hmmm. Start of a problem here. Could there be more tha one god?
"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
Dust. Not clay and not blood. Perhaps there's a third god.
"But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
Now this is miraculous. To create man out of nothing. Is this the fourth god?
"He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man)
becomes an open disputer! (16:4).
Well I could do that. But surely I'm not the fifth god.
With regards to the pantheon soap I agree with you. It is a soap. I also regard monotheism as a soap but when I wash myself in polytheistic soap I come out feeling fresh, revived and loving and wanting to socialise with everyone. But when I wash myself in that monotheistic soap I feel dirty and unclean. I want to withdraw from society and destroy all that polytheistic soap and make everyone wash in monotheistic soap.
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anonymous2
Registered Senior Member
Bruce Wayne said:
As to the point of 6 vs 8 periods, while the earth and heaven "come together", the heaven is a vapor. Then in 2 periods Allah forms seven heavens, forms the lower heaven with stars, etc. So the creation of the universe according to these verses, appears to me to be in 8 periods, not 6. 2 periods to create the earth, 4 periods to make the mountains and animals and food, and after that, Allah gathered the earth with the heaven, and then in 2 periods Allah divided the heaven to seven heavens and made stars in the lower one. That does seem to add up to 8 periods. Of course, there is a "fix" for this "alleged" discrepancy, like there is a "fix" for many "alleged" Bible discrepancies. At the least, it seems to me, there is ambiguity in the verses, and they could have been made clearer, in my opinion.
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M*W: okinrus, I've been awaiting your response to the Moses/Akhenaten post on another thread.
There are several names associated with Moses:
1) Aminadab (birth name)
2) Son Prince of Amenhotep III
3) Coregent to Amenhotep III
4) King Amenhotep IV
5) Akhenaten (chosen name)
6) Father of King Tutankhamun
7) Husband of Nefertiti
8) Husband to his eldest daughter Merytaten
9) Half-brother to Miriam (Miriam may have been is sister-mother)
10)Brother to Aaron (Semenkhkare)
11)Moses
Moses worshipped the god 'Aten.' His influence on the Israelites had them worshipping the only god 'Aten.' When they prayed to 'Aten', they ended their prayers with 'Amen' which is Moses' kingly name (Amen Hotep IV). In other words, they prayed in Moses' name!
M*W: okinrus, I've been awaiting your response to the Moses/Akhenaten post on another thread.
There are several names associated with Moses:
1) Aminadab (birth name)
2) Son Prince of Amenhotep III
3) Coregent to Amenhotep III
4) King Amenhotep IV
5) Akhenaten (chosen name)
6) Father of King Tutankhamun
7) Husband of Nefertiti
8) Husband to his eldest daughter Merytaten
9) Half-brother to Miriam (Miriam may have been is sister-mother)
10)Brother to Aaron (Semenkhkare)
11)Moses
Moses worshipped the god 'Aten.' His influence on the Israelites had them worshipping the only god 'Aten.' When they prayed to 'Aten', they ended their prayers with 'Amen' which is Moses' kingly name (Amen Hotep IV). In other words, they prayed in Moses' name!
I Am F_AQ2
Registered Senior Member
Why? I do not understand where you make the connection. Monotheistic religions have a fairly definite definition of their god. It requires them to be omnipotent, a trait that the devil is lacking as well as all those angels that you are saying are lesser gods. Why do you insist that anything that is more powerful than man is a god? Power does not equal godhood. You also cannot make a comparison between Zeus and God like you have. There is a clear difference, Zeus is not omnipotent. In his case there is room for other gods since the only prerequisite to godhood was immortality. In monotheism the God must be omnipotent and therefore cannot coexist with another God.
sol13 said:
If the Quran is the written word of god then why are there so many contradictions in it. It can't be that god changes his mind so perhaps there was more than one god writing it.
They "are" there, because you want to believe that they are there.
sol13 said:
No. Surely there was nothing before God created the universe, so man and the universe were cerated from nothing (19:67;52:35). The rest are stadia of creation. While two speak of the earth of which Adam was created (3:59;15:26) the other two speak of how this creation when on through the biological process (16:4;96:2).
On no, you are no a God. You yourself are but a production facility. He, on the other hand, created you and your life and the notion of reproduction and the prime matter sof which you sperm consists.
Before we continue I must notice that you have given up on your first claims. I must assume you were convinced of the error in your earlier opinion.
sol13 said:
Soap as in t.v. not the chemichal substance.
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I Am F_AQ2, good luck explaining that to him.
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Bruce Wayne said:Before we continue I must notice that you have given up on your first claims. I must assume you were convinced of the error in your earlier opinion.
Soap as in t.v. not the chemichal substance.
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So the soap you were referring to was t.v. This just goes to show how easy misinterpretations are.
I assume you are referring to "good" and "evil".
I believe "evil" exists but this is a subjective opinion. There is no objective "good". Are famine and droughts "evil". I would say so. Others though may claim they are "good". They may claim they are are god's work or see them as a means of population control.
I cannot see any objective "good". That is why it is impossible to meet the criteria to enter heaven by being a "good" muslim or a "good" christian. Who decides what is "good" and what is "evil"? There are too many interpretaions of the Bible and the Quran. You may have one interpretation but I am sure you will agree that there are other muslims who will have a different interpretation of what is a "good" muslim. This in itself is proof that the Quran has contradictions and is not clear. How do you know your interpretation is the correct one when others will insist theirs is the correct one.
Surely an omniscient god, from the point of creation, would have foreseen that he would have to write the O.T, the N.T and the Quran to explain to people his presence and all the chaos and conflict that would ensue from him so doing.
I could (and will) claim that if the omniscient god had realised all the division, hate and destruction that would be wrought on earth by introducing monotheism it would have been preferable if he had left us alone.
That is why god does not exist. Only gods with their conflicting interests could possibly create such chaos.
To the rabbit the lion seems evil - good and evil are relative terms. To beings looking down from space, territorial/resource disputes between different peoples/nations would likely look no more ''evil'' or ''good'' than any other creatures in the animal kingdom battling it out.
W
what768
Guest
sol13 said:
"Nietzsche is dead" / God
Sol13 let me ask you something, If you had the choice between
1) humans don't exist and there is are no diseases, plagues ..etc (no humanity)
or
2)humans exist and there are diseases, plagues ..etc (death and misery but also joy and warmth and love)
which one would you choose?
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1) humans don't exist and there is are no diseases, plagues ..etc (no humanity)
or
2)humans exist and there are diseases, plagues ..etc (death and misery but also joy and warmth and love)
which one would you choose?
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what768 said:
Touché
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Bruce Wayne said:
I return to my subjective and objective viewpoint. Subjectively I would choose life. For all its suffering, death and heartache life offers just enough rewards to make life bearable. Most of the rewards usually come in ones youth and lessen with age (no cheeky comments please). Many of the things enjoyed in the vitality of youth are relinquished for other pleasures which give us contentment rather than exuberant joy but still there are enough for me to choose option (2).
If I look at the options objectively then I would choose option (1). I consider human beings as the most destructive life force on Mother Earth. It is not a Biblicalplague of locusts that is causing damage to the planet but a plague of human beings. We are making never-ending demands on her milk and not allowing her time to replenish her stocks. No farmer would treat his cows in the way we are treating our planet. Unfortunately I too am taking more than my fair share.
If I was to look to the future of earth as a living force then it would have to be without humanity/disease/war/despoilation. After all wasn't that how the Garden of Eden was before man "fell".
"Is that a yes or no?"
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P.s: all the possibilities are value judgements, no a single one is objective.
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P.s: all the possibilities are value judgements, no a single one is objective.
what768 said:
I realise thise is in jest but I would like to reply nonetheless.
We have two conflicting statements:
"God is dead/Nietzsche" and "Nietzsche is dead/God"
Which one are we to believe? This is similar to the story of the traveller who reaches a junction and does not know which way to turn to reach the nearest town. There are two brothers in a field but he knows that one of them tells only the truth whilst the other can only lie. How can he find which way to turn?
Unfortunately we cannot ask Nietzsche or god which of them is telling the truth therefore we must deduce it from their lives and works.
Nietzsche's works contain inconsistencies but these can be explained by his intellectual growth and development. In his private life I don't see much that would indicate he was a liar unless you consider his later insanity as an indication. There are no records of him commanding others to murder and enslave people in his name.
The works of god are full of contradictions. He is the supreme egotist commanding people to worship him and only him. He is responsible for the murder and enslavement of others in his name.
If I was to choose from the above who is telling the truth then I would choose Nietzsche. Ah you may say. Nietzsche is dead. There is his body. Where is the body of god.
We are discussing Nietzsche so he is alive in our thoughts. If I read Nietzche and imbue his thoughts then his spirit enters me and becomes part of me. Nietzsche lives in our hearts just as Shakespeare, Homer and Beethoven live in our souls.
Can the same be said about...er...er....er...I'm sorry. I thought there was somebody else in this discussion. If there was his name eludes me.
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sol13 said:
I guess you mean God.
Oh! wait!! does that mean that according to your twisted logic God is alive? I sure does. Certainly since waay waay more people admit to have God in their live. :m:
Bruce Wayne said:
As I stated on a previous post on this thread I waver between paganism & Buddhism. You may say that is a contradiction and it is not possible to have two beliefs. Setting aside the contradictions that exist in monotheism I would rather view my predicament as an evolution of ideas. I, unlike monotheists, do not claim to have all the answers. I am still searching. The universe is a huge place with too many questions and not enough answers.I believe it is foolish to claim to have all the answers in one ideology.
This is my view. It may be unacceptable to you but I will not give "yes" or "no" answer when I do not know the answer.
Bruce Wayne said:I guess you mean God.
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God is dead. He is kaput. He is no more. He has ceased to be. He is pushing up daisies. He's kicked the bucket, shuffled off this mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleeding chorus invisible. He is an ex-god. (Apologies to Monty Python).
If you read my little spoof you would have seen that I was saying god/Nietzsche exist only if we believe in them. If you believe in something or some person then they will be part of your life just as Shakespeare, Nietzsche, Beethoven are a part of mine and many others people's lives. Stop believing in them and they cease to exist. I do not believe in a monotheistice god. He is dead. He is kaput. He is no more etc etc etc.
If more people have god in their lives then fine. He is alive for them. For me he is dead. Kaput. He is no more....oh dear here we go again