Nonsense river and nothing supports that silly mystical, pseudoscientific answer.
You again need to be aware that this is the science section, not for your dreamy ideas put as fact.
Most British scientists: Richard Dawkins' work misrepresents science
- Thread starter paddoboy
- Start date
You again need to be aware that this is the science section, not for your dreamy ideas put as fact.
https://reflectionsofayoungcontrari...13/05/addressing-creationist-fallacies-21.pdf
In January 2001, scientists from NASA’s Ames Research Centre and the University of California, Santa Cruz, surprised many of their colleagues and created headline news by announcing the results of experiments which produced complex organic molecules under conditions resembling those which exist in interstellar clouds of gas and dust. In these experiments, a mixture of the kind of icy material known to exist in those clouds (composed of water, methanol, ammonia and carbon monoxide frozen together) was kept in a cold vacuum and dosed with ultraviolet radiation. Chemical reactions stimulated by the radiation (typical of the kind of radiation from young stars which zaps real interstellar clouds) produced a variety of organic compounds which, when immersed in water, spontaneously created membranous structures resembling soap bubbles.
Conclusions
At the moment, since we have no idea of the probability of life, it’s virtually impossible to assign any meaningful probabilities to any of the steps involved, except perhaps the first two: the evolution of monomers to polymers (probability = 1), and the formation of catalytic polymers (probability = 1). For the transition from replicating polymers to enzyme-based hypercycles, the probability may well be 1, if Kauffman is right about catalytic closure and his phase transition models. For the hypercycle to protobiont transition, the probability is dependent on theoretical concepts still being developed, and is unknown. There is still so much confusion surrounding the specifics of abiogenesis. To quote Andy Knoll, Professor of Biology at Harvard, in this regard: If we try to summarize by just saying what, at the end of the day, we do know about the deep history of life on Earth, about its origin, about its formative stages that gave rise to the biology we see around us today, I think we have to admit that we’re looking through a glass darkly here. We don’t know how life started on this planet. We don’t know exactly when it started, we don’t know under what circumstances. (PBS Nova interview, May 3rd 2004) However, in the end, life’s feasibility depends on chemistry and biochemistry that we are still studying, not coin flipping. Indeed, Robert Shapiro of New York University believes that we will understand the origins of life within the next five years. Why five years? Well, because the RNA world theory is far from dead, and continues to consume the efforts of the majority of workers in the field of life’s origins. A few years will be needed to entice some of them to explore the other solution, which is the following: Neither DNA nor RNA nor proteins were necessary for the origin of life. Large molecules dominate the processes of life today, but they were not needed to get it started. Monomers themselves have the ability to support heredity and catalysis. The key requirement is that a suitable energy source be available to assist them in the processes of self-organization. A demonstration of the principle involved in the origin of life would require only that a suitable monomer mixture be exposed to an appropriate energy source in a simple apparatus. We could then observe the very first steps in evolution. Intelligent Design advocates have of course understood the flaws in the RNA world theory and used them to support their supernatural explanation for life’s origin. A successful scientific theory in this area would leave one less task for God to accomplish. The origin of life would be a natural (and perhaps frequent) result of the physical laws that govern the universe. This latter thought falls directly in line with the idea of cosmic evolution, which asserts that events since the Big Bang have moved almost inevitably in the direction of life. No miracle or immense stroke of luck was needed to get it started.
Let us finish by reflecting upon what exactly we know about life on earth. We know that all complex organisms on earth, including ourselves, evolved from earlier organisms over the course of billions of years. There is no question that the diverse life we see around us is the expression of a genetic code written in the molecule DNA, that DNA undergoes chance mutations, and that some mutations increase an organism’s odds of surviving and reproducing in a given environment. This process of mutation and natural selection has allowed isolated populations of individuals to interbreed and, over vast stretches of time, form new species. There is no question that human beings evolved from non-human ancestors in this way. We know, from genetic evidence, that we share an ancestor with apes and monkeys, and that this ancestor in turn shared an ancestor with bats and flying lemurs. There is a widely branching tree of life whose basic shape and character is now very well understood. Consequently, there is no reason whatsoever to believe that individual species were created in their present forms. How the process of evolution got started is still a mystery, but that does not in the least suggest that a deity is likely to be lurking at the bottom of it all.
In January 2001, scientists from NASA’s Ames Research Centre and the University of California, Santa Cruz, surprised many of their colleagues and created headline news by announcing the results of experiments which produced complex organic molecules under conditions resembling those which exist in interstellar clouds of gas and dust. In these experiments, a mixture of the kind of icy material known to exist in those clouds (composed of water, methanol, ammonia and carbon monoxide frozen together) was kept in a cold vacuum and dosed with ultraviolet radiation. Chemical reactions stimulated by the radiation (typical of the kind of radiation from young stars which zaps real interstellar clouds) produced a variety of organic compounds which, when immersed in water, spontaneously created membranous structures resembling soap bubbles.
Conclusions
At the moment, since we have no idea of the probability of life, it’s virtually impossible to assign any meaningful probabilities to any of the steps involved, except perhaps the first two: the evolution of monomers to polymers (probability = 1), and the formation of catalytic polymers (probability = 1). For the transition from replicating polymers to enzyme-based hypercycles, the probability may well be 1, if Kauffman is right about catalytic closure and his phase transition models. For the hypercycle to protobiont transition, the probability is dependent on theoretical concepts still being developed, and is unknown. There is still so much confusion surrounding the specifics of abiogenesis. To quote Andy Knoll, Professor of Biology at Harvard, in this regard: If we try to summarize by just saying what, at the end of the day, we do know about the deep history of life on Earth, about its origin, about its formative stages that gave rise to the biology we see around us today, I think we have to admit that we’re looking through a glass darkly here. We don’t know how life started on this planet. We don’t know exactly when it started, we don’t know under what circumstances. (PBS Nova interview, May 3rd 2004) However, in the end, life’s feasibility depends on chemistry and biochemistry that we are still studying, not coin flipping. Indeed, Robert Shapiro of New York University believes that we will understand the origins of life within the next five years. Why five years? Well, because the RNA world theory is far from dead, and continues to consume the efforts of the majority of workers in the field of life’s origins. A few years will be needed to entice some of them to explore the other solution, which is the following: Neither DNA nor RNA nor proteins were necessary for the origin of life. Large molecules dominate the processes of life today, but they were not needed to get it started. Monomers themselves have the ability to support heredity and catalysis. The key requirement is that a suitable energy source be available to assist them in the processes of self-organization. A demonstration of the principle involved in the origin of life would require only that a suitable monomer mixture be exposed to an appropriate energy source in a simple apparatus. We could then observe the very first steps in evolution. Intelligent Design advocates have of course understood the flaws in the RNA world theory and used them to support their supernatural explanation for life’s origin. A successful scientific theory in this area would leave one less task for God to accomplish. The origin of life would be a natural (and perhaps frequent) result of the physical laws that govern the universe. This latter thought falls directly in line with the idea of cosmic evolution, which asserts that events since the Big Bang have moved almost inevitably in the direction of life. No miracle or immense stroke of luck was needed to get it started.
Let us finish by reflecting upon what exactly we know about life on earth. We know that all complex organisms on earth, including ourselves, evolved from earlier organisms over the course of billions of years. There is no question that the diverse life we see around us is the expression of a genetic code written in the molecule DNA, that DNA undergoes chance mutations, and that some mutations increase an organism’s odds of surviving and reproducing in a given environment. This process of mutation and natural selection has allowed isolated populations of individuals to interbreed and, over vast stretches of time, form new species. There is no question that human beings evolved from non-human ancestors in this way. We know, from genetic evidence, that we share an ancestor with apes and monkeys, and that this ancestor in turn shared an ancestor with bats and flying lemurs. There is a widely branching tree of life whose basic shape and character is now very well understood. Consequently, there is no reason whatsoever to believe that individual species were created in their present forms. How the process of evolution got started is still a mystery, but that does not in the least suggest that a deity is likely to be lurking at the bottom of it all.
Certainly not from any Jiminy Cricket idea!
We know 100%certain abiogenisis happened, but are not yet aware of the exact path and method...We also know according to the evidence the BB was the evolution of time, space and the universe, but we do not know the how or the why. Those gaps in our knowledge that you are grabbing hold of, are the way of our religious trolls and there "god of the gaps" and other anti science frauds that infest forums such as this as there only outlets.
Certainly not from any Jiminy Cricket idea!
We know 100%certain abiogenisis happened, but are not yet aware of the exact path and method...We also know according to the evidence the BB was the evolution of time, space and the universe, but we do not know the how or the why. Those gaps in our knowledge that you are grabbing hold of, are the way of our religious trolls and there "god of the gaps" and other anti science frauds that infest forums such as this as there only outlets.
100% pad . no dice pad .
I'm not religious pad .
The genetic code is the most puzzling thing about life .
Moving ahead , we shall see what the genetic code in us reveals , and hopefully its origin .
No your not apparently religious, just shall we say mixed up?
I mean pushing atomic war on Mars by Aliens, claiming time stops if you do not have a watch, and now claiming rocks and the universe are alive!
Again, evolution is 100% certain: No question. Abiogenisis is the only scientific answer for the beginning of life and the proof of it being valid, is we are here.
Interesting point river, you may like to comment on.
You in recent posts put forward a total idea that you claimed you thought of 20 years ago....
Yet at post 739 I asked you the following....
Now if you thought of this 20 years ago, why did you not answer my question?
Don't bother answering river, your pretentious nature has been obvious for a while now.
Oh, and no I never believed you anyway.
You in recent posts put forward a total idea that you claimed you thought of 20 years ago....
Yet at post 739 I asked you the following....
That same question was asked at least four times since and you continually ignored it. Now today you come up with this Jiminy Cricket idea, [at least that's what you claim] then tells us all, "Oh look I just read the same idea in a book the other day!"Are'nt I dandy!!
Now if you thought of this 20 years ago, why did you not answer my question?
Don't bother answering river, your pretentious nature has been obvious for a while now.
Oh, and no I never believed you anyway.
Correct.
No, it doesn't. The only "awareness" of how potent their venom is comes from the animals it strikes.
If a snake, by random chance, has more potent venom, then it kills more of its victims and thus has lots of little snakes. Those genes are preserved.
If a snake, by random chance, has less potent venom, then it kills fewer of its victims and thus has fewer little snakes. Those genes are removed.
No intelligence needed, just random chance and natural selection.
No your not apparently religious, just shall we say mixed up?
No your mixed up because you can't fathom that my idea of a being is not god related .
Oh well
Evidence is clear pad . Xenon 129 is because of atom bombs exploded on Earth . and on Mars it is far , far above Earths .
Your taking this out of context . typical
Both are .
Evolution fine
Abiogenisis. life is in all things pad .
The genetic code is a whole different matter .
If it walks like an elephant and quacks like a duck it must be god related.
No really
True
Humpty of the Dumpty
Irrelevant .
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
I have heard we can find rocks from Mars on Earth so if that is possible could your element you relate to an atomic bomb had its origin on Earth.
As wild as that may seem that could be a better explanation than to propose a Martian atomic war.
Alex
Please do not post nonsense or pseudoscience to the Science subforums.
Xenon 129 is found in the atmosphere of Mars .
Look, the scientists know that xenon 129 is the result of atomic testing on Earth .
So when XENON129 showed up on Mars in enormous amounts , this leads to the conclusion that atomic bombs were exploded on Mars . Nothing else can account for the very , very high readings of xenon129 .
The truth is the truth Alex.
Telling lies again river? You come here claiming you have come up with an idea 20 years ago, yet was unable to or refused to answer my questions at least 4 times over a 100 posts back, then reveal that suddenly you found it promoted just recently in some questionable book, by a certified loonie and occultist.
Basically saying rocks and the universe were/are alive or similar mystical crap.
I'm not concerned one iota about it being related to the mythical god most of us define, I'm laughing at your idea simply river as crazy, along with damn well near all your ideas.
You are obfuscating again river; That was all explained to you before.
http://mars.nasa.gov/news/whatsnew/index.cfm?FuseAction=ShowNews&NewsID=1935
Telling lies again river? You come here claiming you have come up with an idea 20 years ago, yet was unable to or refused to answer my questions at least 4 times over a 100 posts back, then reveal that suddenly you found it promoted just recently in some questionable book, by a certified loonie and occultist.
Basically saying rocks and the universe were/are alive or similar mystical crap.
I'm not concerned one iota about it being related to the mythical god most of us define, I'm laughing at your idea simply river as crazy, along with damn well near all your ideas.
No, I'm telling it as it is and as you are claiming: I'm certainly not demeaning you as you claim, you are doing an excellent grade A+ job yourself.
Telling lies again river? You come here claiming you have come up with an idea 20 years ago, yet was unable to or refused to answer my questions at least 4 times over a 100 posts back, then reveal that suddenly you found it promoted just recently in some questionable book, by a certified loonie and occultist.
Basically saying rocks and the universe were/are alive or similar mystical crap.
I'm not concerned one iota about it being related to the mythical god most of us define, I'm laughing at your idea simply river as crazy, along with damn well near all your ideas.
No there not, and again now you are trolling and lying.
Telling lies again river? You come here claiming you have come up with an idea 20 years ago, yet was unable to or refused to answer my questions at least 4 times over a 100 posts back, then reveal that suddenly you found it promoted just recently in some questionable book, by a certified loonie and occultist.
Basically saying rocks and the universe were/are alive or similar mystical crap.
I'm not concerned one iota about it being related to the mythical god most of us define, I'm laughing at your idea simply river as crazy, along with damn well near all your ideas.
Again, you are trolling and lying river, you have some silly notion that you picked up again in one og your mystical books.
And you claim I and others are demeaning you? river, seriously no one could do a better job at that then what you are doing yourself.
No, that's entirely bullshit river.
So Rover Curiosity was not sending "tut tut tut" signals back.
They were "click click click" from radiation.
Dumpty
Telling lies again river? You come here claiming you have come up with an idea 20 years ago, yet was unable to or refused to answer my questions at least 4 times over a 100 posts back, then reveal that suddenly you found it promoted just recently in some questionable book, by a certified loonie and occultist.
Basically saying rocks and the universe were/are alive or similar mystical crap.
I'm not concerned one iota about it being related to the mythical god most of us define, I'm laughing at your idea simply river as crazy, along with damn well near all your ideas.
You are obfuscating again river; That was all explained to you before.
http://mars.nasa.gov/news/whatsnew/index.cfm?FuseAction=ShowNews&NewsID=1935
Telling lies again river? You come here claiming you have come up with an idea 20 years ago, yet was unable to or refused to answer my questions at least 4 times over a 100 posts back, then reveal that suddenly you found it promoted just recently in some questionable book, by a certified loonie and occultist.
Basically saying rocks and the universe were/are alive or similar mystical crap.
I'm not concerned one iota about it being related to the mythical god most of us define, I'm laughing at your idea simply river as crazy, along with damn well near all your ideas.
No, I'm telling it as it is and as you are claiming: I'm certainly not demeaning you as you claim, you are doing an excellent grade A+ job yourself.
Telling lies again river? You come here claiming you have come up with an idea 20 years ago, yet was unable to or refused to answer my questions at least 4 times over a 100 posts back, then reveal that suddenly you found it promoted just recently in some questionable book, by a certified loonie and occultist.
Basically saying rocks and the universe were/are alive or similar mystical crap.
I'm not concerned one iota about it being related to the mythical god most of us define, I'm laughing at your idea simply river as crazy, along with damn well near all your ideas.
No there not, and again now you are trolling and lying.
Telling lies again river? You come here claiming you have come up with an idea 20 years ago, yet was unable to or refused to answer my questions at least 4 times over a 100 posts back, then reveal that suddenly you found it promoted just recently in some questionable book, by a certified loonie and occultist.
Basically saying rocks and the universe were/are alive or similar mystical crap.
I'm not concerned one iota about it being related to the mythical god most of us define, I'm laughing at your idea simply river as crazy, along with damn well near all your ideas.
Again, you are trolling and lying river, you have some silly notion that you picked up again in one og your mystical books.
river, seriously no one could do a better job at that then what you are doing yourself.
Then don't bother replying to this thread pad . if you think I'm lying .
Here's a link with explanations Alex...another link in one of the posts to river.
http://www.spaceflightinsider.com/m...-discovers-mars-crust-contributes-atmosphere/
NASA’s Curiosity Mars rover has found evidencethat chemical processes within the surface of Mars contribute to the makeup of the planet’s atmosphere over time. The new findings come from the rover’s Sample Analysis at Mars (SAM) instrument suite, which studied the gases xenon and krypton in Mars’ atmosphere. The two gases are used by researchers as tracers to aid their investigation of the evolution and erosion of the Martian atmosphere.
Much of what was previously known about xenon and krypton in Mars’ atmosphere came from the study of Martian meteorites and data gathered by the Viking mission.
“What we found is that earlier studies of xenon and krypton only told part of the story,” said Pamela Conrad, lead author of the report and SAM’s deputy principal investigator at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland. “SAM is now giving us the first complete in-situ benchmark against which to compare meteorite measurements.”
The scientists were especially interested in the ratios of certain isotopes – chemical variants that have different numbers of neutrons – of xenon and krypton. The researchers ran a series of experiments to measure all of the isotopes of the two gases in Mars’ atmosphere. The team described their experiments in a paper published in Earth and Planetary Science Letters (EPSL).
The scientists used a method called static mass spectrometry, which is excellent for detecting gases that are present in only trace amounts. While this is not a new technique, its use on the surface of a planet other than Earth has only been done by SAM.
While the overall analysis agrees with previous studies, the ratios of some isotopes were slightly different than expected. While trying to understand what caused these subtle but important differences, the scientists realized that neutrons could have been transferred from one element within the crust of Mars to another through a process called neutron capture.
These isotopes may have been released into the atmosphere by impacts on the Martian surface and by gas escaping the regolith – which is the soil and broken rocks of the surface.
“SAM’s measurements provide evidence of a really interesting process in which the rock and unconsolidated material at the planet’s surface have contributed to the xenon and krypton isotopic composition of the atmosphere in a dynamic way,” said Conrad.
The atmospheres of Mars and Earth have very different patterns of xenon and krypton isotopes. For instance, Mars has much more of the isotope xenon-129 in its atmosphere than does Earth.
“The unique capability to measure in situ the six and nine different isotopes of krypton and xenon allows scientists to delve into the complex interactions between the Martian atmosphere and crust,” said Michael Meyer, lead scientist for the Mars Exploration Program at NASA Headquarters in Washington. “Discovering these interactions through time allows us to gain a greater understanding of planetary evolution.”
Read more at http://www.spaceflightinsider.com/m...t-contributes-atmosphere/#6oWykRCIAOSDU1K4.99
To take such a finding to the nth degree, and claim some type of nuclear war by Aliens is totally insane stuff.
If you say so pad.
I know you pad , your just outside your comfort zone pad .
When that happens pad , well , you can't handle the truth .
Oh well
I started this thread river so I would be careful telling me or anyone else not to post because it interferes with your mystical outlook on life the universe and everything.