Muslim Festival of Animal Sacrifice

So you think people boasting about who slaughtered how big an animal and provided how much meat to the community is comparable to a girl who dissected a cat?

I suppose to some the "feel good scenes" from the exercise of philanthropy could be similar to a satanic ritual, personally I don't see it that way.
 
You won't find me debating that, I am a great believer in the contiguity of patterns.

Would you say that the experimentation of animals is akin to the girls ritualistic slaughter?

Is the belief in the extrapolation of experimental results justified by the killing of millions of animals?
 
Would you say that the experimentation of animals is akin to the girls ritualistic slaughter?

Not at all. One is driven by research on certain issue; other one is driven by display purposes only. I can be against doing experiments on animals, or I can demand less harm for the animals that used in those experiments, or I can question why these experiments are done and by whom. I can politicise the case, make it subject to discussion, because there is no religious brands behind these experiments. Altogether, the motives behind experiments are falling into a totally different category than those dress-up-and-come-to-my-party type of religious sacrifices.
 
so eating the animals of Bakr Eid is more harmful because they are displayed but inducing tumours and breeding animals specifically for the purpose of experimenting on them is alright because there is no vanity in research, ie no belief that humans are special and animals are more easily disposable?

Just for comparison, I may have personally participated in the slaughter of maybe 20 goats in my lifetime, while having eaten the meat of hundreds. However I participated in the killing of at least 400 rats, who were then tossed into the rubbish bin after we had imprisoned them from birth for the period of almost a year and strictly controlled their food movement and living conditions [which included starving them to the point where they ate their newborns] and then chopping off their heads, collecting their blood and tissues and then tossing them in the bin.
 
so eating the animals of Bakr Eid is more harmful because they are displayed but inducing tumours and breeding animals specifically for the purpose of experimenting on them is alright because there is no vanity in research, ie no belief that humans are special and animals are more easily disposable?

Nobody says humans are special apart from religious doctrines. And nobody says that eating animals is harmful.

I already stated in above post that all these experiments are subject to discussion and every time humans are trying to find less harmful ways to deal with animals.

But again, I repeat, this is nothing to do with dying animals in human hands, nothing to do with how animals do suffer. You are intentionally trying to divert the topic from the "display purposes only" sign which has been repeated since OP.

If you want to discuss your issue, you can start a thread on your issue. I may or may not attend. But I do not deal with your "animals are suffering in human hands" issue, not because it is not important, just because it is irrelevant in here.

Why don't you raise the issue of people are slaughtering animals to eat every single day? Why don't you ask why do we breed our domesticated animals for last 10 thousand years in order to feed our population? For a good reason; because they are irrelevant. You can try to do same for the experimented animals. They are, like the ones human beings are breeding for nutrition purposes, are irrelevant. Showing-off your belief over animal carcasses is the topic in here...
 
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Showing-off your belief over animal carcasses is the topic in here...

Apparently not, because you wantonly exclude the ones done for the purpose of publication in journals with a high impact factor.
 
Apparently not, because you wantonly exclude the ones done for the purpose of publication in journals with a high impact factor.

What is the "purpose" of publication and what journals may I ask... And are they showing of these carcasses for the purpose of gaining some status and/or satisfaction?
 
What is the "purpose" of publication and what journals may I ask... And are they showing of these carcasses for the purpose of gaining some status and/or satisfaction?

Pretty much. Their tenure and credibility depends on it. Much like the guy who goes fishing and displays his biggest catch with a photo.

However, I am still unable to grasp your analogy of Bakr Eid with a satanic ritual. I mean if she had divided the cat meat, said it stood for the victory of truth over tribalism and then had a dinner party where she cooked the cat and ate it I would understand the comparison.
 
Have you lost your ever lovin mind?! :bugeye:

No I did not . I am trying to follow logic behind a Jew bringing all kinds of bashing against Muslims while Muslims and Jews have very similar life style in killing animals, believing in one God......etc .
 
Christians just slaughtered 35 million turkeys in the USA this past week. What's your point?

How DARE you!

There are plenty of us who slaughtered turkeys who are not Christians!*

They died for a good cause. Their sacrifice was not in vain.

~String

*Thanksgiving being a holiday that is pretty inter-faith; celebrated by atheists, agnostics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and Christians alike
 
There is an interesting news going on in Turkey, about a 15 year old girl who slaughtered a cat in the name of Satanism, and she published the pictures of the process on internet. Links can not be shown here, due to their graphic content.

However, coincidentally, the Muslim festival of Eid al-Adha has just started in the very same country; probably in many other Muslim countries too. And traditionally, this festival brings scenes of slaughtered animals with their internal organs scattered all over the streets; children practically grow up with it.

My question has nothing to do with "Yeah, you don't know but children of the Muslim countries are already grow up with human bloodshed" discussion. Mainly, because this is not a problem unique for Muslim children; there are many kids all around the world who have been experiencing war and violence for many different reasons. Furthermore, my focal point is on the ritual. The subject girl slaughtered the cat in the name of Satan and made a slideshow out of her action. People of Muslim countries are doing the same thing in the name of Allah every year, and in much greater scale.

Yet, some of them like the ones in Turkey, can easily blame a girl who did exactly the same thing (slaughter for your belief and display it) in the name of some other belief.

These are my questions:

Should or Should not Muslims find this girl's display as a familiar practice to their festival of Eid al-Adha? Aren't they similar? If not, what is/are the difference(s)? If they are similar, why is the hypocrisy?

Who the hell cares?

Yeah, yeah. Muslims sacrificed a bunch of animals.

Ever wonder where eggs on your McMuffin come from? Think that those chickens endure something MORE pleasant than a quick knife to the throat that sheep and goats in the Mideast experience?

~String
 
Who the hell cares?

Yeah, yeah. Muslims sacrificed a bunch of animals.

Ever wonder where eggs on your McMuffin come from? Think that those chickens endure something MORE pleasant than a quick knife to the throat that sheep and goats in the Mideast experience?

You didn't get the main issue, did you? It's nothing to do with slaughtered animals, not in this thread at least. It's about show off and hypocrisy
Here is your example:

Their tenure and credibility depends on it. Much like the guy who goes fishing and displays his biggest catch with a photo.

However, I am still unable to grasp your analogy of Bakr Eid with a satanic ritual. I mean if she had divided the cat meat, said it stood for the victory of truth over tribalism and then had a dinner party where she cooked the cat and ate it I would understand the comparison.

... unable to grasp my analogy. There is no analogy; they are both religious sacrifice rituals.
 
You didn't get the main issue, did you? It's nothing to do with slaughtered animals, not in this thread at least. It's about show off and hypocrisy
Here is your example:



... unable to grasp my analogy. There is no analogy; they are both religious sacrifice rituals.

except one is is for food and one is for shits and giggles which you for some reason have a problem of grasping. their is no hypocrisy.


also can you prove you description of the festival is accurate. because the only thing I can find that is remotely like your claims of the show off the organs and things is the sharing of the meat with family,friends, and poorer members of the community.
 
You didn't get the main issue, did you? It's nothing to do with slaughtered animals, not in this thread at least. It's about show off and hypocrisy
Here is your example:



... unable to grasp my analogy. There is no analogy; they are both religious sacrifice rituals.

Baftan, we all "grasp" your analogy, so don't delude yourself. It's just that we think it's self-serving and utterly puerile. Maybe you missed that part about our answers.

~String
 
except one is is for food and one is for shits and giggles which you for some reason have a problem of grasping. their is no hypocrisy.

It's not for food "only", I have been separating this issue from the beginning, we slaughter animals everyday for food, don't confuse the concepts. It's a "sacrifice" ceremony; if you don't know what I am talking about can make your own research about it. They sacrifice animals for their Allah during this festival, please prove us that it is not.


also can you prove you description of the festival is accurate. because the only thing I can find that is remotely like your claims of the show off the organs and things is the sharing of the meat with family,friends, and poorer members of the community.

Similar argument made by S.A.M. and I already answered it.
 
Baftan, we all "grasp" your analogy,
"unable to grasp my analogy" is taken from S.A.M.'s post. I just repeated it, read carefully.

so don't delude yourself.
about what? Are you seriously claiming that this is not a religious ceremony, you simply don't know anything about it. Even a Muslim wouldn't claim this. Read about this festival.

It's just that we think it's self-serving and utterly puerile. Maybe you missed that part about our answers.

Just prove me that this is nothing to do with a religious sacrifice ceremony, then we can discuss about which points are missed...
 
It's not for food "only", I have been separating this issue from the beginning, we slaughter animals everyday for food, don't confuse the concepts. It's a "sacrifice" ceremony; if you don't know what I am talking about can make your own research about it. They sacrifice animals for their Allah during this festival, please prove us that it is not.
In almost every single culture with ritual slaughter the animal is consumed after words. It is viewed as an affront to the gods not to eat it. The greeks, the romans, the jews, native american cultures, traditional african cultures,the old european pagan faiths, some south eastern asian cultures all had ritual slaughter and like muslims they always ate the meat. it is akin to christians getting their easter food blessed before eating it. This is nothing but you attempting to bash muslims and than getting pissed when your getting called on your completely obvious attempts.




Similar argument made by S.A.M. and I already answered it.
No you didn't you have yet to show it shit.
 
In almost every single culture with ritual slaughter the animal is consumed after words. It is viewed as an affront to the gods not to eat it. The greeks, the romans, the jews, native american cultures, traditional african cultures,the old european pagan faiths, some south eastern asian cultures all had ritual slaughter and like muslims they always ate the meat. it is akin to christians getting their easter food blessed before eating it.

You can find it normal to slaughter animals and display their organs while blaming a girl because she did a similar thing based on her belief (of course her belief is not a "real belief" for you, you hinted that above). You can find this normal, I don't. Because same Muslim community named and shamed this 15 year old and made her an obvious target. You can accept that Muslims can do whatever they like just because their population is around 1 billion, but I don't have to.

is nothing but you attempting to bash muslims and than getting pissed when your getting called on your completely obvious attempts.

I don't know what did you understand from my "obvious" attempts, but mine is obviously not in favour of Muslims, or any other religion in that matter. I agree that I don't like many of religious mentality, practices, habits, and ideology and I find many of them disturbing. Moreover, I don't think their rituals deserve any special understanding and/or acceptance. If they think that they are following their God's, Allah's or any other fantastic invention so they have right to do anything they like without any criticism , they are wrong. Yet instead of pointing out individuals, I prefer to deal with the idea that support or legitimise the acts of individuals.

No you didn't you have yet to show it shit.

You can rephrase your question, and if I still refuse to answer the question, you might have a point, you can even claim that I am trolling,. But I see nothing other than a repeat of the same - what you were called "shit"-, so don't expect that I will come up with a different answer.

Both are religious ceremonies, as well as your examples of other tribal rituals, and you are claiming this: End legitimise the ceremonial killing; because they are eaten at the end. And Muslims have right to single out this girl as an anomaly, because she did not eat the cat, is that so?
Answer this: Are they religious sacrifice ceremonies, or not? While answering this, try to add ancient American human sacrifice rituals onto your list.
Or, you can answer this: What is your point? In other way of saying "Which part, claim, sentence or logic you didn't understand in this thread"?

I don't have a hidden agenda on undermining Muslim religion (neither to "bash Muslims" as you stated) , I only find their belief system as "unbelievable", and I call their hypocrisy against other belief systems as "unacceptable". And my reaction would be same for the actions of any ideology, religion, or so called "common sense" if they were acting in similar way.

This thread and my attempt can be formulated as "understanding the level of tolerance in religious societies against others". Others could be anything: Satanist girl, a group of atheists, followers of different religions or belief systems, or even those who wants to modify the existing rules and practices of the dominant religion: The morality of majority against minority. The example can be the status of a Muslim in a predominantly non-Muslim society; at the end this Muslim would require some tolerance from the society s/he lives.

If you deduced anything other than this, you can produce some intelligible argument instead of defensive whinging. Otherwise I am going to start suspecting your motives, as well as the reasons behind your temper.
 
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