My recent personal experience wit a unsolved mystery.!!!

[Q-reeus]

That's the way - best to keep playing dumb.
As for the cheap conspiracy theory shot, it's long overuse and abuse has rendered it ineffective at best. Maybe you should wake up and acknowledge that intelligence agency folks get payed for being 'conspiracy theorists'. Be thankful for that!

 

[DaveC426913]

That's the way - best to keep playing dumb.

It's not 'playing dumb' if you have rendered it such that your joke naivete and your sincere naivete look and sound identical. That distinction is your responsibility to nurture.

Now stop moaning about how you're just misunderstood. Stay on topic or step back and let others contribute to this silly thread.

 

[Q-reeus]

It's not 'playing dumb' if you have rendered it such that your joke naivete and your sincere naivete look and sound identical. That distinction is your responsibility to nurture.

Now stop moaning about how you're just misunderstood. Stay on topic or step back and let others contribute to this silly thread.

Yes you are playing dumb as tactic. And now playing the righteous card again. Same old same.

 

[Quantum Quack]

All so called paranormal events have a scientific explanation that we just don't know about...nor understand yet.

 

[Q-reeus]

All so called paranormal events have a scientific explanation that we just don't know about...nor understand yet.

When there is no qualifier like imo, one assumes a cock sure attitude based on expert knowledge of the subject. So I'm guessing you will have little trouble taking the time to watch and take copious notes in order to thoroughly debunk the overall theme in this classic 1978 BBC documentary:

I've posted on it before a few times, and strangely enough, no-one here has put in a serious effort to debunk it.
Please DO report back, as the first person to undertake that honorable task, your considered and detailed professional analysis QQ. I'd truly like to be purged of any stupid, illogical thinking.

 

[Q-reeus]

While the BBC (and much later added bits) vid linked to in last post is certainly good enough on its own, the following 2007 Channel 4 vid fills in some gaps to give an overall more complete account. Including a few skeptic views that imo amounted to no more than hand-waving speculation invariably ignoring many key incidents among the totality of witnessed activities:

That vid was also posted here before and likewise received zero attempts to debunk it.

 

[Quantum Quack]

When there is no qualifier like imo, one assumes a cock sure attitude based on expert knowledge of the subject. So I'm guessing you will have little trouble taking the time to watch and take copious notes in order to thoroughly debunk the overall theme in this classic 1978 BBC documentary:

I've posted on it before a few times, and strangely enough, no-one here has put in a serious effort to debunk it.
Please DO report back, as the first person to undertake that honorable task, your considered and detailed professional analysis QQ. I'd truly like to be purged of any stupid, illogical thinking.

The first point I want to make is that as usual, it is unfalsifiable or to use your word un debunkable.
Second point, the time line appears to be confused but this may be ineptitude of the producers and not the content per see.
The documentary presented, to me, has little value beyond entertainment.
Importantly it is worth noting that the box office hit "Houdini (1953)" and other paranormal films were all the rage at the time and to be frank ...still are...

Also it is worth noting that culturally the world in the late 50's was in the grip of alien UFO sightings, abductions, crop circles and other so called phenomena all possibly associated with heightened paranoia associated with the Cold war and the potential of nuclear holocaust by way of ICMB's . Tensions were high.(**) Which leads me to my next point.

While science has little trouble measuring many attributes or properties like pressure, compression, attraction, repulsion etc it has a lot more difficulty measuring tension, especially what would appear to be atmospheric or spacial tension. I believe in most cases it has to be calculated and not measured directly.
Tension is something animals including humans "feel" and react accordingly.

After screwin the lid back on i set a clear plastic container of salt down on the counter… an about 30 seconds later while i was usin a kitchen scale on the same counter the salt container “slid” on the counter at least 1 ½ inches. It was about 6 inches beyond the scales i was usin an easily wit-in my field of vision. I just stared at it for about 10 seconds -- thankin how fuggin weird that was.!!!

This event could be explained by the sudden loss of ambient tension created (think static electricity/charge/ tension -Teslar) by screwing the lid on the Plastic salt container.(*) Providing the plastic salt container a repelling force that neutralized existing holding forces facilitating a small amount of movement when a volume of liquid was placed near by on top of what I presume were mechanical scales. If the scales were digital there is even more plausibility involved.
In other words the issue of the salt container moving could be associated with the release of ambient tension. (static charge)
The movement of the salt container releasing that ambient tension.
(*) Especially if the screwing the lid included crushing or grinding salt granules in the process ( think piezoelectrical effect)
(**) the huge facination with zombie apocalyptic, biological weapon fear etc over the last 20 years or so has over taken the nuke threat somewhat...

 

[Q-reeus]

The first point I want to make is that as usual, it is unfalsifiable or to use your word un debunkable.
Second point, the time line appears to be confused but this may be ineptitude of the producers and not the content per see.
The documentary presented, to me, has little value beyond entertainment.
Importantly it is worth noting that the box office hit "Houdini (1953)" and other paranormal films were all the rage at the time and to be frank ...still are...

Also it is worth noting that culturally the world in the late 50's was in the grip of alien UFO sightings, abductions, crop circles and other so called phenomena all possibly associated with heightened paranoia associated with the Cold war and the potential of nuclear holocaust by way of ICMB's . Tensions were high.(**) Which leads me to my next point.

While science has little trouble measuring many attributes or properties like pressure, compression, attraction, repulsion etc it has a lot more difficulty measuring tension, especially what would appear to be atmospheric or spacial tension. I believe in most cases it has to be calculated and not measured directly.
Tension is something animals including humans "feel" and react accordingly.

Ha ha ha ha. Atmospheric 'tension' is your attempt at putting it all on a 'scientific' footing? Look I do understand that rigid ideological commitment to materialism can, as has amply been demonstrated very many times in OTF sub-forums, result in truly desperate attempts at rationalizing things happening outside of conventionally allowed thinking.

Just realize you are dismissing with a wave of the hand a large collection of testimony from rational, responsible and clearly perfectly sane witnesses and investigators with zero evident axes to grind or sizable if any money to be made.
And indeed the family and neighbors were ostracized and ridiculed but never was there ever a 'confession of guilt' from any of them. All stuck to the same story - family, neighbors, police (one being pressured to change her story but refused), TV and newspaper journalists, and paranormal investigators. Doesn't mean a whit to you it seems.

The implication being, as the BBC investigative journalist stated, there was a truly massive conspiracy to deceive, or mass hallucination kept up consistently for many months! Sure. OR - as he continued - a transcending of the laws of nature as we understand them.

This event could be explained by the sudden loss of ambient tension created (think static electricity/charge/ tension -Teslar) by screwing the lid on the Plastic salt container.(*) Providing the plastic salt container a repelling force that neutralized existing holding forces facilitating a small amount of movement when a volume of liquid was placed near by on top of what I presume were mechanical scales. If the scales were digital there is even more plausibility involved.
In other words the issue of the salt container moving could be associated with the release of ambient tension. (static charge)
The movement of the salt container releasing that ambient tension.
(*) Especially if the screwing the lid included crushing or grinding salt granules in the process ( think piezoelectrical effect)
(**) the huge facination with zombie apocalyptic, biological weapon fear etc over the last 20 years or so has over taken the nuke threat somewhat...

Ha ha ha ha. More 'science' to the rescue. Nice try. I'll leave that piece for cluelusshusbund to answer in detail if he wishes to return to this thread.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Ha ha ha ha. Atmospheric 'tension' is your attempt at putting it all on a 'scientific' footing? Look I do understand that rigid ideological commitment to materialism can, as has amply been demonstrated very many times in OTF sub-forums, result in truly desperate attempts at rationalizing things happening outside of conventionally allowed thinking.

I am not attempting to discount the story as a hoax nor am I attempting to debunk anything about it.
The video offers no way that science can determine anything about it. For or against.

Just realize you are dismissing with a wave of the hand a large collection of testimony from rational, responsible and clearly perfectly sane witnesses and investigators with zero evident axes to grind or sizable if any money to be made.
And indeed the family and neighbors were ostracized and ridiculed but never was there ever a 'confession of guilt' from any of them. All stuck to the same story - family, neighbors, police (one being pressured to change her story but refused), TV and newspaper journalists, and paranormal investigators. Doesn't mean a whit to you it seems.

I have personally witnessed enough paranormal and so called psychic events to with hold judgement as to the veracity of the haunting and to rarely take personal testimony as truth given.
Suffice to say I tend to believe that " something " may have happened to inspire so much attention to it. What exactly had happened is the unanswerable question that you are posing.

Do you believe in the reality of a collective consciousness?

 

[Q-reeus]

I am not attempting to discount the story as a hoax nor am I attempting to debunk anything about it.
The video offers no way that science can determine anything about it. For or against.

Which highlights the limitations of the scientific method. Reproducibility - preferably on demand in a controlled lab setting. The very antithesis of the nature of paranormal phenomena in general. You will have surely read my position statements shown elsewhere in the UFOs.... sub-forum. My synthesis is all real not imagined or hoaxed or misidentified paranormal events are the work of normally invisible intelligences with enormous abilities, and in all but possibly rare exceptions, mischievous even malevolent intentions/motivations.
It fits the evidence whereas neither 'scientific' nor 'latent human mind powers' speculation offers anything close to a rational answer - imho.

I have personally witnessed enough paranormal and so called psychic events to with hold judgement as to the veracity of the haunting and to rarely take personal testimony as truth given.
Suffice to say I tend to believe that " something " may have happened to inspire so much attention to it. What exactly had happened is the unanswerable question that you are posing.

Do you believe in the reality of a collective consciousness?

You meant this one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_consciousness
or this one?:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_unconscious
The first appears to be a way of popularizing group-think i.e. collectivism via a particular philosophical garb.
The second is Jungian style mysticism along the 'latent mind powers' line mentioned above, but on a networking across individual minds tack.
No I don't believe in it. If perchance it nevertheless exists to some small degree, causation won't be found in human physiology.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Which highlights the limitations of the scientific method. Reproducibility - preferably on demand in a controlled lab setting. The very antithesis of the nature of paranormal phenomena in general. You will have surely read my position statements shown elsewhere in the UFOs.... sub-forum. My synthesis is all real not imagined or hoaxed or misidentified paranormal events are the work of normally invisible intelligences with enormous abilities, and in all but possibly rare exceptions, mischievous even malevolent intentions/motivations.
It fits the evidence whereas neither 'scientific' nor 'latent human mind powers' speculation offers anything close to a rational answer - imho.

No.. I do not usually get involved in the banter on aliens and paranormal mainly because of the overt ego vanities of the posters. It is impossible in most times to have a decent discussion, any where on the web...I might add..
There is a real material reason why so called paranormal events can not be evidenced in a way that conventional thinkers can get involved. ( mostly intense subconscious fear etc)
As such most events are seemingly spontaneous, unable to be observed by those who fear a power greater than their own. Observed only by those who are not so fearful of losing control etc.

You meant this one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_consciousness
or this one?:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_unconscious

Neither...

...causation won't be found in human physiology.

I disagree, and suggest you are being less than objective. Medical science is unable at this stage to even determine what consciousness is and being prepared to rule out a true physiological collective is a part of the fear I was talking about.

 

[Q-reeus]

No.. I do not usually get involved in the banter on aliens and paranormal mainly because of the overt ego vanities of the posters. It is impossible in most times to have a decent discussion, any where on the web...I might add..
There is a real material reason why so called paranormal events can not be evidenced in a way that conventional thinkers can get involved. ( mostly intense subconscious fear etc)
As such most events are seemingly spontaneous, unable to be observed by those who fear a power greater than their own. Observed only by those who are not so fearful of losing control etc.

Neither...


I disagree, and suggest you are being less than objective. Medical science is unable at this stage to even determine what consciousness is and being prepared to rule out a true physiological collective is a part of the fear I was talking about.

OK well I'm afraid we must should just agree to disagree on that. Cheers.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

This event could be explained by the sudden loss of ambient tension created (think static electricity/charge/ tension -Teslar) by screwing the lid on the Plastic salt container.(*) Providing the plastic salt container a repelling force that neutralized existing holding forces facilitating a small amount of movement when a volume of liquid was placed near by on top of what I presume were mechanical scales. If the scales were digital there is even more plausibility involved.
In other words the issue of the salt container moving could be associated with the release of ambient tension. (static charge)
The movement of the salt container releasing that ambient tension.
(*) Especially if the screwing the lid included crushing or grinding salt granules in the process ( think piezoelectrical effect)
(**) the huge facination with zombie apocalyptic, biological weapon fear etc over the last 20 years or so has over taken the nuke threat somewhat...

Somtimes when i screw the lid on the salt container i can feel a bit of salt bein ground in the threds.!!!

First... i had unscrewed the the lid on the salt container an poured about 1/4 tsp into a glass container for anuther use... screwed the lid back on the salt container an set it down on the counter.!!!

I was then in the process of usin the digital scale to measure a dry salt/soda mixture (from its own plastic cointainer) into a glass measure cup for neti-pot use... an thats when the salt container moved at least 1 1/2 inch on the counter.!!!

Below shows the bottom of the salt cointainer that moved "on its own"... an the bottom of the plastic mug that often moves when set on a wet smooth surface... both of which are concave an can trap air.!!!

 

[Q-reeus]

Somtimes when i screw the lid on the salt container i can feel a bit of salt bein ground in the threds.!!!

First... i had unscrewed the the lid on the salt container an poured about 1/4 tsp into a glass container for anuther use... screwed the lid back on the salt container an set it down on the counter.!!!

I was then in the process of usin the digital scale to measure a dry salt/soda mixture (from its own plastic cointainer) into a glass measure cup for neti-pot use... an thats when the salt container moved at least 1 1/2 inch on the counter.!!!

Below shows the bottom of the salt cointainer that moved "on its own"... an the bottom of the plastic mug that often moves when set on a wet smooth surface... both of which are concave an can trap air.!!!

When a picture is worth a thousand words. How may bottles DON'T have a protruding rim underneath? It provides both enhanced rigidity and stability. Hence the standard design feature. We have already covered the fanciful at best notions that on a (according to tell all pic) very smooth and DRY bench surface, 'trapped air' could mysteriously heat enough to create hovercraft like 'frictionless floating'. Hand wavy BS. The so-called 'seal' will be quite imperfect and, ironically for it's proponents, poltergeist-like mysterious air heating would have to manifest locally and quite rapidly to allow any sideways floating ~ 2".
Sorry cluelusshusbund - the sole rational answer (assuming honesty on your part, and no good reason to doubt it) - is poltergeist activity. So mild I'd just ignore as anecdotally (how terribly terribly unscientific!) these critters feed off fear and morbid fascination.
Cheers.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Surface tension of the highly polished (silica?) table top and the surface tension of the salt container base need to be considered IMO.

 

[Q-reeus]

Surface tension of the highly polished (silica?) table top and the surface tension of the salt container base need to be considered IMO.

So consider it here QQ - in all important technically relevant detail. Good luck with establishing 'surface tension' as a rational cause. Just tossing in thought bubbled doesn't count. Sorry.

 

[Quantum Quack]

So consider it here QQ - in all important technically relevant detail. Good luck with establishing 'surface tension' as a rational cause. Just tossing in thought bubbled doesn't count. Sorry.

Maybe ask the poltergeist for a more rational one?

 

[Q-reeus]

Maybe ask the poltergeist for a more rational one?

Ha ha ha and ho ho ho. Best I can tell yours truly is shunned by them. Whoever they really are. We must go by observational evidence - much of it purely anecdotal. Not deeply prejudiced theorizing.
Once again QQ - YOU provide an explanation based on table top/salt container 'surface tension interactions' that passes muster. Not getting the impression that exists.
Please prove me wrong. BTW still waiting for that detailed rebuttal of quality investigative vids linked to in #65, #66.
Dragging in a YT preview to a Hollywood classically distorted movie, and suggesting Enfield poltergeist incidents and similar are somehow rationally linked to 1950s 'UFO hysteria' is, well, not smart thinking to say the least.
Do much better this time round please. Or just vacate the thread. I repeat - thought bubbles just do not cut it. Even if such bubbles obviously do tap into a prevailing materialist sentiment at SF.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Ha ha ha and ho ho ho. Best I can tell yours truly is shunned by them. Whoever they really are. We must go by observational evidence - much of it purely anecdotal. Not deeply prejudiced theorizing.
Once again QQ - YOU provide an explanation based on table top/salt container 'surface tension interactions' that passes muster. Not getting the impression that exists.
Please prove me wrong. BTW still waiting for that detailed rebuttal of quality investigative vids linked to in #65, #66.
Dragging in a YT preview to a Hollywood classically distorted movie, and suggesting Enfield poltergeist incidents and similar are somehow rationally linked to 1950s 'UFO hysteria' is, well, not smart thinking to say the least.
Do much better this time round please. Or just vacate the thread. I repeat - thought bubbles just do not cut it. Even if such bubbles obviously do tap into a prevailing materialist sentiment at SF.

The Enfield poltergeist incident and subsequent strange events could all be put down to a con man who wanted to start up his psychic paranormal research institute.

Knock twice for yes.....

 

[Q-reeus]

The Enfield poltergeist incident and subsequent strange events could all be put down to a con man who wanted to start up his psychic paranormal research institute.

Knock twice for yes.....

Do you actually understand the crucial difference between hand-wavy assertions like that one, and a thorough, ruthlessly objective analysis?
Be honest QQ. Are you 100% COMMITTED to a materialist philosophy that by definition AUTOMATICALLY and UNEQUIVOCALLY rejects anything and everything - whether philosophical and/or evidential, that clashes with that materialist mindset.? A straightforward answer please. We both have a limited time-span and wasting it on doomed from the start lengthy back and forth exchanges is stupid.